The Honorable And Noble Israeli Warriors

Taken from Israeli newspaper Haaretz

Border Police Held Boy, 13, as Human Shield

By Reuters and Ha’aretz Service
April 22, 2004

When older Palestinian boys started throwing stones at Border Police officers in the flashpoint West Bank village of Biddu last week, 13-year-old Muhammed Badwan went along to watch.

He ended up on the hood of a Border Police jeep, at least one of his arms tied to a wire mesh screen that blocks the windshield from incoming stones, according to a photograph of the purported incident distributed Thursday by local group Rabbis for Human Rights.

Palestinian 13-year-old tied to an Israeli jeep.
Israeli Border Police are accused of tying Mohammed Badwan, 13, to a jeep as a human shield. (G.M. and The Alternative Information Center)

Both sides are as bad as each other. The only consistant approach you can take to what is going on in the Middle East is to stand firm and maintain that no side has the right to harm innocent civilians. No excuses.

[edit on 8/8/06 by subz]

If true, that's awful!

Unfortunately, the article references Reuters as a source, but I cannot find anything corroborating it on their news service. Anyone else able to find the story there?

Direct Haaretz Link

From the link

The Supreme Court barred the use of Palestinians as human shields in 2002 after an incident in which soldiers forced the neighbor of a suspected militant to knock on his door and deliver their ultimatum to surrender. The militant shot and killed the man.

[edit on 8/8/06 by subz]

originally posted by subzBoth sides are as bad as each other. The only consistant approach you can take to what is going on in the Middle East is to stand firm and maintain that no side has the right to harm innocent civilians. No excuses.

couldnt agree more. trouble is that this conflict in particular seems to have polarized opinion from both sides, there doesnt seem to be much of a middle ground. the argument that it's war and civilian casualties should be expected holds no water with me, are we really any more civilised than we were 20, 200 or 2000 yrs ago. not if we dont all stand up and say enough is enough to all the protagonists.



edit for poor code, whoops.

[edit on 8/8/06 by mojo4sale]

Originally posted by Junglejake
I think Israel is justified in its actions against Hamas and Hezbullah, and I put the blame for the civilian deaths on those two terror groups' cowardly tactics. I don't hide that fact, I don't claim that Israel is just as bad as Hezbullah -- they're not. One targets civilians while hiding amongst civilian populations while the other is attacking its attackers as best it can despite their cowardly tactics.

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Do you still stand by your post above? Do you think this Israeli action is justified? Do you want to qualify your support of Israel by acknowledging that Israel engages in "cowardly tactics" as seen above too?

Damn, get a lil foot in mouth there thanks to the "good guys"?

Is this some form of new hitech irsael technology? The Human Shield?



Krieg ist Hölle ja?




[edit on 8-8-2006 by Lysergic]

Obviously I don't support this action in any way. I'd like more detail into what happened, though. Was this an isolated incident, or supported by Israel officially?
(Answer: No)

The Supreme Court barred the use of Palestinians as human shields in 2002 after an incident in which soldiers forced the neighbor of a suspected militant to knock on his door and deliver their ultimatum to surrender. The militant shot and killed the man.

What's taking place in the investigation being conducted into the border police the article mentions?

Police said Muhammed’s case was sent to the Justice Ministry for investigation.

These individuals, if indeed guilty of doing this, must be convicted by Israel for violating Israeli law in using Palestinians as human shields and should be condemned far more strongly in the punishment for the use of a child.

However, again, I want more evidence before I believe this behavior is as systemic as that which the terror organizations use, and I want more evidence and a less biased news source supporting the claims of the article. I don't know Haaretz which is why I'd like a news agency I'm more familiar with.

I remember this photo from somewhere, and I seem to recall the entire series clearly demonstrating that there was no instance of "human shields" being used. Time has past, and I'm not trying too hard, but I did find this:

Who is in front of who?

It appears that a picture may not be worth a thousand words, at least not a thousand factual words.

I guess there's not much impending danger, and I think if I was going to rely on a "human shield," I'd secure them with more than a black dress belt.

Maybe he was caught throwing rocks, and they don't want him to run off?

Originally posted by junglejake
Obviously I don't support this action in any way. I'd like more detail into what happened, though. Was this an isolated incident, or supported by Israel officially?
(Answer: No)

The Supreme Court barred the use of Palestinians as human shields in 2002 after an incident in which soldiers forced the neighbor of a suspected militant to knock on his door and deliver their ultimatum to surrender. The militant shot and killed the man.

They only ruled in 2002 that using human shields is illegal?

Originally posted by junglejake
These individuals, if indeed guilty of doing this, must be convicted by Israel for violating Israeli law in using Palestinians as human shields and should be condemned far more strongly in the punishment for the use of a child.

Then we agree.

Originally posted by junglejake
However, again, I want more evidence before I believe this behavior is as systemic as that which the terror organizations use, and I want more evidence and a less biased news source supporting the claims of the article. I don't know Haaretz which is why I'd like a news agency I'm more familiar with.

Haaretz is one of the main Israeli newspapers.

If you want more instances of Israeli military abuses then please watch the video linked in my signature.

I dont understand the need to try and defend the indefencible, Mirthful me. You can support Israel's right to exist and to be free from attack without also feeling obliged to support the war crimes committed by Israeli troops.

Is that link you provided meant to try to portray the IDF soldier standing infront of the child strapped to the front of a riot jeep as some how protecting the child? Are you seriously trying to pass that off as some kind of evidence the child was not used as a human shield?

The IDF soldier was photographed looking at the child strapped to the windshield. There is no context for your photo. He could of just finished tying him to the front of the jeep for all we know. Your dispassionate take on this photo is comendable. Do you consider other photos showing Hezbollah or Hamas in similar situations as dispassionately and as objectively?

[edit on 8/8/06 by subz]

Originally posted by junglejake
These individuals, if indeed guilty of doing this, must be convicted by Israel for violating Israeli law in using Palestinians as human shields and should be condemned far more strongly in the punishment for the use of a child.

Jungle unfortunately the majority of them don't investigate and if they do they get slaps on the wrist. You will see hundreds of photos/videos where settlers are actually shooting automatic weapons at the Palestinians and the soldiers turn their heads. Its atrocious. If you are a Christian person there is no way that you could abide by these things and support them. You really should see the video I posted in my thread and you will see the horrific way the soldiers beat, and dehumanize those people, and how the settlers routinely sabotage their farms without interruption and attack them right in front of IDF/Cops. Beachcomber posted a video link to a short video where these guys blew off a door to an innocent civilans house and killed the mother of the family, the soldiers were smiling and happy about it. Its Disgusting.

Originally posted by subz
[I dont understand the need to try and defend the indefencible, Mirthful me. You can support Israel's right to exist and to be free from attack without also feeling obliged to support the war crimes committed by Israeli troops.

The regular sacrifice of the truth upon the altar of agenda with the ceremonial dagger propaganda.

Your pontifications regarding my stance, position and motives regarding Israel, and the entire Middle East (I have no idea where you dug up a reference about the "illegal occupation of Palestinian lands, I've never commented on the subject here, or anywhere else) are duly noted, and summarily disregarded. The real issue seems that I provided an image that shakes the credibility of the premise of your thread (a thread that is little more than a juvenile mimicry of JungleJake's thread ). I have no stake in your sophomoric vitriol, that's between you and those that find your brand of "Deny Ignorance" compelling... That's not me.

You seem willing to attack me (and others that don't share your point of view on the subject), but you are less inclined to address the inconsistencies that this image provides. He doesn't appear to be beaten, or securely restrained... There's someone standing out in the open with him, so it's hard to claim imminent danger...He does appear frightened, and I can can certainly understand that.

I tend to think this image (like so many on ATS) are presented out of context and fail to accurately tell the whole story.

Is indeed awful, but doesn't make sense. first off, he looks rather content, second off the soldier there wouldn't allow someone that close to snap a shot of an obviouse human shield. My bet is the kid crossed a line or border and was arrested, although why he is on the hood who knows. Like the "Honorable Hammas Warriors" thread both seem to have another story to them then what the source is saying.

And before you attack me I did say IF Israel is using him as a shield that is 110% wrong, I am only saying there may be another reason why is there.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
The real issue seems that I provided an image that shakes the credibility of the premise of your thread (a thread that is little more than a juvenile mimicry of JungleJake's thread ). I have no stake in your sophomoric vitriol, that's between you and those that find your brand of "Deny Ignorance" compelling... That's not me.

All self aggrandizing histrionics aside, your image does nothing of the sort. It's of an IDF soldier standing inbetween the cameraman and the 13 y.o boy that his colleagues had just forcibly strapped to the front of their jeep as a human shield. How you believe that some how absolves these actions has not been explained. If thats your idea of being civil...

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
You seem willing to attack me (and others that don't share your point of view on the subject)

Attack? Where? Just because you choose to roll around the floor in hysterics like a soccer player doesnt mean I attacked you. If I attacked you im sure I would be sporting a nice red warn as you'd love nothing more than to warn me if I actually broke the T&C.

[edit on 9/8/06 by subz]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Is indeed awful, but doesn't make sense. first off, he looks rather content, second off the soldier there wouldn't allow someone that close to snap a shot of an obviouse human shield.

Looks rather content? Are we to believe the IDF were giving this boy a joy ride? Apparently the photos were smuggled out of Israel. The human shield story above seemed to have escalated with a Swedish activist suffering the same fate as the boy.

When a Swedish activist from the ISM came to his defense, they slapped her around and tied her to the front of the same vehicle.

A human rights demonstrator in the village of Biddo, northwest of Jerusalem, was able to surreptitiously photograph the event and successfully smuggled the film out of Israel. The image is said to show the boy, the ISM activist, and two other unidentified persons tied to the grille of a lightly armored military jeep, similar to the one pictured. They appear to have been beaten.

Israeli Forces Use Arab Boy As Human Shield

Also the photos were taken before the boy, along with other Swedish activists, were driven through the crowds of stone throwers.

But of course all instances that show Israeli soldiers violating human rights laws, and apparently their own laws, are rationalized and explained aways as misunderstandings and propaganda. Conversely every single photo showing close proximity of civilians to resistance fighters are held up as uncontrovertible proof of the use of human shields. The fact that Israel has turned entire neighbourhoods where these civilians live into a warzone is conveniently ommitted.

Just watch the video in my link.

[edit on 8/8/06 by subz]

Ok, ok, ok I was just point out that the photo when tooken looks like the kids just chillin there, maybe in a bit of time out who knows. Very wierd that they would do something like that.. I mean are the rocks going to hurt your humvee that bad? Maybe chip the paint but common.. Interesting, if the story is in fact true then it is a rather obvious and blatent disregard of human rights.

reply to post by Rockpuck


kid does look like he is chilling there. lol

why are u guys shocked by this? what the fuk do u think war and hate is all about.
its not just zionists doing this sort of thing either.
I mean cmone, how old are we 16. the world is a fuked up place.

think about all the discusting things your neighbors have done to kids and other people.

the pic is truly crazy though, I wonder the TRUE reason for having the picture put out

Have you ever been in a situation where bullets are flying and it's a me or them scenario? If so, did you take time to lay down your weapon and scream out, "hey I'm wrong, sorry"?

Civilians in other cultures would not be filmed and shown to the world alive. There are two sides to every story. Maybe you prefer Islamic law where females are second class citizens with no opinion and are obedient to the superior male.

Females can't even drive in Saudi Arabia, vote, and are sub servant to society. These Israelites are probably more concerned for this guy than his parents.

This war did not start yesterday, Israel was mandated in 1948 and it has been war ever since. But google or do a dig in Israel and their history goes back for eons. This was not taken land or displaced people, this is Israel's homeland with proof.

The next time someone whines about a living soul and not one executed in a bad photo, needs to go and get fired upon in real life. You're perspective on the hows and why will change dramatically. The liberal video game of " Iam God and this is how it will be " needs to stop.

Armchair politics are easy, put you're life on the line and get back with me.

Been there