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"Mystery" Stone

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posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 08:34 AM
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www.earthfiles.com...
Here is something for the ATS experts to take a look at. It seems that a stone with symbols was found without archeaological context in New Hampshire.

Anyone have ideas regarding the symbology? The use of the stone? Possible origins?

All opinions welcome.




posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 09:20 AM
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I've seen it before. The general consensus is that it's reasonably modern (sculpted after 1700), by a Caucasian (not an AmerInd) and by someone who had little contact with any AmerInd culture.

The sculpting's nice, but no group anywhere near New Hampshire lived in wigwams. They lived in longhouses. The "arrows" on the reverse side aren't done in the style of any other representation of arrows done by AmerInds.

The fine detail on the corncob shows metal sculpting tools were used (you can't get something like that with lithics.)

So it's an artist's piece from the 100 years preceding the find. Nobody knows how it got there (deliberate hoax by workmen (very common in those days) or dropped/lost by an artist or purchaser) but it's clearly very modern and clearly not of AmerInd origin.

BTW, it was found when people were digging holes for a fence. No archaeologists were involved. My suspicion is that Seneca Ladd (the landowner -- note the AmerInd referenced name) is the sculptor... or knew the sculptor.

[edit on 7-8-2006 by Byrd]



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 10:10 AM
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Thanks Byrd for your detailed assessment.

Now that you've weighed in with your educated guess, I'm going to throw something out that may fit within the parameters of the find.

Let's accept for the sake of conjecture that Ladd did not know who did the carving. Then let's put the origin of the stone to sometime before the 1700s and attribute it to someone travelling from Europe to North America - perhaps Celtic/Norse or anyone familiar with stone carving technique and with metal tools to do it with.

Perhaps that person encounters Native Americans and decides to fashion egg carving because of the encounter. Don't know why they'd drill holes on top and bottom of egg - that might be a dead give away to a stone lathe, i.e., modern tools. But it could easily have been made as part of mounting on a staff, throne, or other wooden object that would old the object. This is all my imagination just running other possibilities....

The only reason I say this, is because of the spiral. It is a very basic Celtic symbol for life and can be seen everywhere in their writings, carvings, etc. Try to picture one tribal group (Druids) meeting up with another tribal group (Mohicans, Mohawks, "insert Native American New England Tribe name here")


Any further thoughts?

Newtron


P.S. And no, I don't know why a Druid would find himself in the New World. Maybe he was asked to go with a bunch of Vikings?



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by newtron25

Don't know why they'd drill holes on top and bottom of egg - that might be a dead give away to a stone lathe, i.e., modern tools.




An intriguing piece.

As a somewhat amateur machinist with a fairly well equipped shop, the holes may have been sized for use in a lathe.
Lathes are a fairly old invention that go quite a ways back in history.

The larger hole indicates a short mandrel that drove the egg shaped stone.
There would have been an extension of the stone so as to set up a "dog" for driving the stone.
The extension would have been taken off after the egg shape was complete.
(A common operation when turning metal or wood.)

The end with the small hole looks/sounds very much like a dead center was used.
Again with an extension due to the hole would wear somewhat fast.
That possibly due to they may not have had live centers available at the time the egg shaped piece was turned.

A live center has bearings and the center point turns with the workpiece.
A dead center does not turn and a lubricant is used to keep the workpiece from damaging the hardened center as well as keep the center hole in the workpiece from enlarging.

I'm guessing the stone wasn't overly hard due to the carving was done by hand.

I wonder if microscopic inspection would show minute particles of steel?


Thanks for posting.



And for Byrd, thumbs up as well.

Your posts and replies are always well thought out, interesting and well written.
A nice change from some of the shrillness that goes on around this place....



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd
The sculpting's nice.


I agree. It's a nice-looking little piece of art, but nothing done by a Native American. The style is way too modern, almost Art Deco.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 11:42 AM
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to link to, my guess would be a manufacture in the Ruhr/Saarland region of Germany, in the 1700's.

I'd guess its a hotstone, to keep you hands warm in your pocket when hunting. You can't shoot with mittens on, and gloves were horribly expensive before mass production. So you keep a hotstone in a lined pocket, after it comes out of the oven it stays warm for 3 or 4 hours. You pull your hand out when something approaches your blind.

If you have gloves, you can still put the "egg" in the gloves until you need them, and they'll be toasty when you're ready to remove the egg and put them on. Very important if you're working in the water in the winter. Trapping pelts, etc.


When I was a kid, we used potatoes. They got cold after an hour, but you could eat them. A stone would stay hot a long time longer, though.

Germans were obsessed with indian culture btw. They frequently turned out "indian knock-offs" the way some asian companies produce "Navajo Jewelry" today.

I have a smooth, unmarked egg that was my grandfather's handstone. In has a thumbmark on it, because he carried it everywhere in winter, and wore it down.


No proofs or anything, just my 2 bits.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by newtron25
The only reason I say this, is because of the spiral. It is a very basic Celtic symbol for life and can be seen everywhere in their writings, carvings, etc. Try to picture one tribal group (Druids) meeting up with another tribal group (Mohicans, Mohawks, "insert Native American New England Tribe name here")

Any further thoughts?


Druids died off at the rise of Christianity in Britain, about 400 AD.

And *every* culture has rock art with some basic designs... stars, circles, concentric circles, squares, dots, -and- spirals. So it's not exclusively Celtic.

Strangecraft, I like your idea (personally) and it makes a lot of sense. Stones and bricks were indeed made as objects to warm clothing and bedding in those times, and it makes perfect sense as a warming object.

Your idea that it may be German made fits with the migration pattern of the area as well as some other cultural factors. We'll never know for sure, but I think you've hit on a very plausible explaination.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 05:33 PM
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That's all I need to hear, guys. Thank you for offering intelligence and experience I simply don't have.

Newtron



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