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Can a Muslim be a good American?

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posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 06:38 PM
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Something I Came Across On The Net




Can a good Muslim be a good American?

someone sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon God of Arabia.

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans.

Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.



I cant say how true this is or not, but please do discuss the merits of it. Maybe we can all learn something.

But my opinion to all this is, "cant we all just get along?"

Edit to correct a repeated line.

[edit on 6-8-2006 by RedGolem]




posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 07:23 PM
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This exact, same, hate-fest has already been posted here:

Can Muslims Be Good Americans???

Either it's by the same thread starter or the thread starter plagiarized.

[edit on 6-8-2006 by Beachcoma]



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 07:30 PM
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It looks like a load of crap to me that someone made up, and very innacurate at that.

Many of the points raised are false, like The constitution being Christian based (it wasnt, it was quite secular and liberal).

That and muslims having to marry their wives or not be friends with christians and jews is also a load of crap.

So is the load of BS about the christian and muslim gods being any different.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 07:50 PM
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Anti-Islamic crap.

In Australia they had the same topic a few weeks ago on a morning news program "can you be australian and muslim?" Where is this crap sprouting from?

What was stated above has so many flaws in it.

1. Allah befor Islam was the arabian moon diety. So? You could say that God befor christianity was Ra the egpytian Sun diety, so do you serve Ra?

2.Yeah and do you see th Christian God accepting any other religion? Read the 10 commandments.

3. So what is you spcriptual allegiance? Their is no such thing as spcriptual allegiance.

4.Well then a Israeli-american jew must not be a good american aswell, as they serve Israel befor america.

5.False, i have had many muslim friends through out my life, i have never been shunned by any muslim.

6.He must listen to the mullahs? Well it matters if you are talking about Sunni or Shiite....Even if they are shiite, doesnt mean they are brainwashed by every word a mullah says.

7. He is allowd to marry multiple women, but not all muslims take this literaly. Just like not all chrsitans take the bible literaly, or do you sacrifice your sheep to god?

8.Muslims do not believe the bible is corrupt in all forms, they see it as a text with divine knowledge, but not infaliable. Muslims believe Jesus was a great phophet.

9.Christianity and Democracy does not go one in one either mate, we have just transformed christianity into a religion that fits into democracy. Islam is not jsut a religion, it is a way of life which involves government. Again not all muslims believe this, and most do believe in freedom of speech and democracy.

10. The christian God is loving and kind? Have you every read the old testament?

If their is a hole in every statement, it does show the inaccuracy of the whole article. My verdict....crap.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 07:55 PM
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Well it certanilly does seem this has been shot down. Thanks for the information everybody, that is what I wanted to know.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 08:40 PM
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Bull Feathers.

Muslims can be good Americans.



posted on Aug, 6 2006 @ 08:50 PM
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Whats a good American, and Whats a bad American?


Define it for me so I don't assume what you're talkin' bout RG.


Wanting them to be a bandwagon patriot since 9/11?




ps: Totally Agree with ya DGtempe, it's ignorant to think otherwise imo.


[edit on 6-8-2006 by Lysergic]



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 09:28 PM
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Lysergic,
I had no defenation in mind. I just wanted to post it hear so I could see if the info would be discredited.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 09:36 PM
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first off bs.
second off the US constitution was not founded on biblical principles.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 09:42 PM
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Can an American be a good citizen of the world ?

Like doesn't deplete all the ressources of the planet.

Support Kyoto, or at least propose something even better (not like the market will solve that).

Support the worst dictator (when it suit the US interest).

I could expand the list to infinity.



posted on Aug, 7 2006 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by PopeyeFAFL

I could expand the list to infinity.


How about you expand the list to infinity for other countries as well? "Those who are without sin, throw the first stone."



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma
Either it's by the same thread starter or the thread starter plagiarized.

Nah, it's the text of an e-mail that's been making the rounds lately.



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 05:49 AM
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Tricky, ever so tricky question and thought. Suppose the answer may include which extreme is the modern Muslim movement headed? I say extreme as I'm quite sure either end is headed for the middle.

Dallas



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 06:01 AM
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I love this part:
"Therefore after much study and deliberation"

HAHAHAHAHA...Great!!


Why should a person bow down to a flag...Patriotism (to anything) will end this world!
Keep spreading this and you will see how bad it will turn out for the people in general...the funny thing is...there are people out there that will believe this.

This is stupid and i dont mean your post, but just the whole
article makes me vomit in my mouth alittle!



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 11:12 PM
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since when was the constitution based on the bible?

i've really wondered why a bunch of deists would write a document based on a document they don't really believe in

also this bull acts as if there aren't ANY hateful lines in the bible

if you weren't aware, the bible contains more violence, hate, perversion, and outright illogical reasoning than the qu'ran.
so the quran is shorter, it's no excuse

no religion is perfect, so don't single out islam

[edit on 9/9/06 by madnessinmysoul]



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 11:25 PM
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Many of the points raised are false, like The constitution being Christian based (it wasnt, it was quite secular and liberal).


Are you saying that you can't be Christian and Liberal?

Or also that the constitution contains no conservative values?

No insult intended, just trying to grasp where your quote is coming from or going to.

Semper



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by wang
Anti-Islamic crap.

In Australia they had the same topic a few weeks ago on a morning news program "can you be australian and muslim?" Where is this crap sprouting from?

What was stated above has so many flaws in it.


EXCELLENT EXCELLENT POST..

YOU HAVE VOTED WANG... etc etc etc


Finally.. an enlightened post that shows true religion is spiritual not territorial..
I love in particular...


Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.


GOD knows(pun intended) what would have been thought of our little ''cultural gatherings'' on the shores of the Red Sea, whch consisted of Yemenis,Israelis,Jordanians and Representing the ''Evil West'' was yours Truly..

Enlightenment usually occured about 5am with the aid of various intoxicating substances and not a political or religious quarrel to EVER spoil the night

Again proof that if you actually get to the stories that sooo many people share in social environments,that it is actually the propaganda spreaders and war mongering politicians that cause the crap that prevents us from taking experiences like this as a daily natural event in life..

Sadly that was almost 9 years ago now and it seems the haters are winning


But NOT without a fight from some of us I hope



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 01:16 AM
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This so smacks of not knowing this nation's hsitory.

Basically, the same tennants can be reverted back to the founding of this country under the WASPs. There was serious debate as to whether or not Catholics should be allowed to vote since they answered to a man called the Pope. Catholics were almost refused this right. This is some of where all the nonsense about seperation of Church and State comes from.

2. Have the entire class stand up. Read each of the following qualifications aloud. After each qualification is read, have students who do not meet the requirement sit down.

* You must be free
* You must be at least _____ years old. (Select an age most students fit)
* You must own property (If your family rents, you may not vote)
* You must be white
* You must be Protestant (Not Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, or other)
* You must be male

As students are eliminated, there will be complaints about not being allowed to vote on upcoming decisions. Explain to students that in the colonial period the only people who could vote were free white males 21 years of age or older who were also property owners and members of the Anglican Church.
here
later info
Since the worst of htis was settled before the constitution was firmyl written, we don't remember it as well as we should.

Americans are not denied the rights of Americans solely based upon their faith. We didn't do it to the Catholics, and we aren't goign to do it to the Islamics.

Plus, if you allow them to do it to one faith, they'll get around to the rest, and all that would be governing this Ship of Fools is the Athiest. Not happening without a fight.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 02:06 AM
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RedGolem, as others have been only too willing to point out, this thing you found is a load of (rhymes with "full grit"). I'm gonna quickly address a couple of points. Quickly, cause I'm a bit drunk at the moment and ready for bed.




Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon God of Arabia.


Big honkin' red flag righ there. "The Moon God"???
Allah is about as much of a "Moon God" as Jesus is "The God of Wood". And, like any other religion, allegiances are various and tiered, starting with Allah, working it's way down through prophets, etc... down to family, etc.



Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)


(rhymes with "full grit")!!! In fact there's a passage that specifically states that that those who follow the god of Abraham and those who follow the god of Moses follow the same god. This has been interpreted to mean Christians and Jews, I believe.



Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).


What the hell does this have to do with being a good American? When I was Christian, the Ten Commandments came first and foremost, that never interfered with my being a good American, it was just another set of rules to go by.



Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.


No, the allegiance isn't to Mecca. It's just a direction to turn and pray. I drive towards Dallas every day to work. I have zero loyalty to Dallas, it's just something I have to do if I want to get to work.



Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.


Well... technically this can be supported with a number of quotes from the Qu'ran, but so what? This is America. People have the right to not like each other and to be offended. That's what's great about this place. If you want to hate, you can, as long as you don't break the law or commit acts of incitement.



Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.


Okay, one, a Mullah isn't a spiritual leader, so that's a tip off to the author's ignorance right there. 20 years in Saudia Arabia my rear end! A Mullah is someone who is educated in the scriptures of Islam. The spiritual leaders are called Imams. Anyone living in a Muslim country for more than a week is gonna learn that difference right away. Anyway, yeah, some hate Israel, but that's more of this 2000 year old feud thingy between two tribes that were supposed to fight together and one of them didn't show up. That, and the whole Gaza Strip thingy. But for every one that teaches about the annihilation of Israel, there's dozens who would much rather a peaceful solution occur. And the whole "America is the Great Satan" thing is absolute (full grit) or we wouldn't have so many of them living here. I'm pretty sure it's our corrupt leadership and our double-standards that are frowned upon.



Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).


Another terrible misquotation. Here is the full verse.

www.usc.edu...

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

I have no idea where the author got "four women" from, and considering the time in which it was written, beating disobediant family members was common in almost every culture and religion. Things change over the years. Granted, women are treated truly fouly in countries like Iran, but the topic isn't about them, it's about Islam.



Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.


Says who? Sure, there's probably a number of Muslims who think the Bible is corrupt. They would be correct, unless you somehow had access to the original texts and were able to view them in the context of history at that point in time and knew the political situations. So, yeah. But while some values may be shared between The Constitution and The Bible, it is probably more due to them being widely accepted as Western Values, and not Christian Values. For instance, most people in America, regardless of whether or not they are Christian, are pretty much in favor of treating each other as equals, not stealing each other's stuff, and not going around killing each other. It just kinda makes sense if you want a stable, lasting nation where you can let people handle their own means of contentment.



Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.


Another ignorant statement by the author. One word: India. Half of India is Muslim. India is a democracy. And a damned successful one, too.



Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.


Golly, does anyone see any bias here, perhaps? Maybe even a bit of word-mixing with stuff that has nothing to do with being an American at all?



Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans.


Hoooooo-boy. How can you argue with that? I'm guessing the "much study" translates to "getting schnocker'd" and "deliberation" may be read as "making (grit) up." I have a feeling the author is borderline illiterate, and spends the majority of the time yelling at people to git off his property...

RedGolem, dunno where you found it, but it has even less credence to it than Milli Vanilli.

[edit on 9/10/2006 by thelibra]



posted on Oct, 1 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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thinking about it, this crap was also said about catholics at the turn of the 20th century

mainly the concerns were over the pope and loyalty to a country

hateful with a different spin



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