Saber rattling, nothing more. They know they will be slapped into next week by the US, Russia and China if they even think about getting squirrly with the oil supply.

The only control they have on the international price of oil is production. If they stopped producing oil the demand would increase and cause the overall price to go up, but since the US doesn't buy oil from Iran, they will be hurting their own customers, as well as have no income.

Who do you think is going to suffer more?

You've got lots of oil in America and we have lots of oil in Canada. We could be good neighbours and have a North American oil supply! Save the costs of shipping and not having to deal with these overseas countries and we could have much cheaper gas prices.. so easy! I never understood why we have to have "World" prices for oil!!!

Wow

i am surprised by the ammount of information you guys and gals have to offer. I agree with some but not all of the information that has been provided. I personally would love to see an alternative to OIL but it realy isnt in sight yet i dont believe. Hydrogen could turn out to be like the Betamax tapes of old. For an alternative fuel to be sucessfull we need to jump to the compact disc stage of development. I hope this makes sence.


E-

Originally posted by lakewoodrealtor
Hydrogen could turn out to be like the Betamax tapes of old. For an alternative fuel to be sucessfull we need to jump to the compact disc stage of development. I hope this makes sence.

Look Hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the world... its the simplest of all the atoms..yet one of the most powerful substances around. The sun burns billons of tons a day{or hour not sure which without looking it up} Even at that rate it will burn for billions of years. Jam two atoms together...fussion.. phenominal release of energy

Water is Di-hydrogen oxide H2O Basically its hydrogen "rust"... stick acouple of electrodes into water... a low voltage realeases oxygen on one side hydrogen on the other... in otherwords you can make it in your garage with a car battery..

A tiny spark ignites the hydrogen with a big bang... remember the Hindenburg?

Do you know what the waste product or exhaust of burning hydrogen is? WATER pure water.... {All that "smoke" from the shuttle launch is water vapor as they burn liquid oxygen and hydrogen}

Cheap to make, abundant, renewable, reliable and no polution

WATER flows over a turbine = electricity --> electricity + water =hydrogen and oxygen --> electricity + hydrogen and oxygen = WATER + tremendous energy

Cycle starts over... bet you never looked at it this way..

Ahh so why are we not using it? Very simple. It BLOWS UP.

Imagine a person at the pumps lighting a cigarette {yeah right none of YOU ever do that!} or a simple static spark. Unlike gasoline fumes which are heavier than air and harder to ignite, hydrogen is light and permeates the air... Smokers will go KABOOM

I was at a convention in Las Vegas where Shell released their new Hydrogen pump. Its safe and easy to use by even the dumbest person. They are ready to do both the main population centers on the east and west coast creating a Hydrogen Hyway in 10 years! And they already have the infrastructure in place...storage in the car for accidents etc. That problem was solved in the sixties with a nickle foam tank.

University of Toronto in 1969 offered a conversion kit for 680.00... a hydrogen nickle foam tank, rear sorings to compensate for the weight of the tank, and a carbeurator... thats all. Hydrogen was available at all Medical gas outlets...

But why go to all the bother and expense when oils is cheap? Americans are complacent at times, but ingenious when it comes to the crunch. Yes it means a few years of high prices at the pump, but once we switch imagine the boom as companies scramble to get rich making all the support stuff needed. Retooling a whole nation..

More than enough for even the greediest Oil Baron....

The other problem was

Saber rattling is right. They stop shipments so supply goes down and demand stays the same so prices go up. But they wont go up that much($200) because Iran doesnt supply that much oil. Also, Iran has to import most of its gasoline so they would be hurt even more than us there. On top of that, China would put a nice sized boot where the sun dont shine because they rely heavily on Irans oil and if oil jumps up 100% it would greatly damage their economic growth. Russia wouldnt be happy either but they wouldnt be as bothered b/c they are wanting to become the energy player in that part of the world.

Hydrogen in my view is still decades away. Ethanol is a nice suppliment for gasoline and biodiesel can have have a great impact on diesel but it will take a combination of biofuels aas well as stuff like solar and wind to reduce our dependence on oil of any country.

Originally posted by lakewoodrealtor
isnt in sight yet i dont believe. Hydrogen could turn out to be like the Betamax tapes of old. For an alternative fuel to be sucessfull we need to jump to the compact disc stage of development. I hope this makes sence. E-

Well actually there are at least a few alternate energy not least of which is cold fusion and 'zero point energy' which you should ample reference to on this site. Whatever the case our current reliance on oil has everything to do with monopolizing control of energy and little to do with absence of alternate sources.

Stellar

That's just a bunch of crap. $200 is too extreme, and they wont be able to keep rebuilding their country if they push that kind of stuff. What was said up there is right, they can slow production causing a price increase, but that's global, not just to the US.

Look Hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the world... its the simplest of all the atoms..yet one of the most powerful substances around. The sun burns billons of tons a day{or hour not sure which without looking it up} Even at that rate it will burn for billions of years. Jam two atoms together...fusion.. phenominal release of energy

Wrong, Iron is the most abundant substance in the WORLD, next is oxygen, then hydrogen.

Water is Di-hydrogen oxide H2O Basically its hydrogen "rust"... stick acouple of electrodes into water... a low voltage realeases oxygen on one side hydrogen on the other... in otherwords you can make it in your garage with a car battery..

I like how you say hydrogen "rust" I never thought of it that way before.
But, our problem is that the electrodes MUST be made of PLATINUM. Which right now goes for 1.00 XPT (1 ounce)
Platinum Ounces = 1,241.00 USD
United States Dollars

Even thought you don't need much, in the long run, hydrogen producing stations that need massive amounts will have to spend a lot of money to get going. Another thing is you need pure water, which will require heat or massive cooling to distill. Otherwise, you will get brine and massively lower hydrogen outputs.

Electrolysis of an aqueous solution of sodium chloride produces chlorine and sodium hydroxide: 2 NaCl(aq) + 2 H2O(l) —→ 2 NaOH(aq) + Cl2(g) + 2 H+ + 2 e-; 2 H+ + 2 e- —→ H2 (g).

Then you would also have trouble separating the hydrogen from the chlorine gases which would be a quite expensive task.

To finish this, no you can't make it with a car battery.

A tiny spark ignites the hydrogen with a big bang... remember the Hindenburg?

Using a fuel cell, you can use NON-reactive hydrogen because it is the "gentle" way of bonding it to form water and gain the electrical energy. Therefore, it has a much lower rish of blowing up like the hindenburg.

Do you know what the waste product or exhaust of burning hydrogen is? WATER pure water.... {All that "smoke" from the shuttle launch is water vapor as they burn liquid oxygen and hydrogen}

Why not just capture the exhaust water and return it to a container and put it back at the pump so you don't get crappy brine. (not a question for you)

Cheap to make, abundant, renewable, reliable and no polution

Expensive to make, hard to distill, very renewable, and virtually no pollution. You'll still get some Hydrochloric acid pollution from batteries, which is very destructive to the environment. But it won't cause global warming.

WATER flows over a turbine = electricity --> electricity + water =hydrogen and oxygen --> electricity + hydrogen and oxygen = WATER + tremendous energy

I think this violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Doing this does not create perpetual motion. (work and energy is the same thing)

As you make the hydrogen gas, you are using more than the 2 or so volts that you make when you bond them together forming the water. It will always take a little bit more energy than you had. (But we have the sun for another 700 million years before it becomes a threat) I can see what you're thinking though, but it just isn't possible to create the hydrogen needed through that method. You have to take in factors such as resistance. Sure, I bet someone could make a machine that will run for a VERY long time, but eventually it will stop. Even in space, a model like that wouldn't run forever.

But, as for now, I hope this technology gets going faster so I dont have to spend my hard-earned $$$!

[edit on 4-8-2006 by XS207]

Originally posted by StellarX

Well actually there are at least a few alternate energy not least of ... 'zero point energy'

SHHHHH Don't spill the beans! Besides that stuff is dangerous. It can literally destroy the solar system in the wrong hands!

Besides what makes you think the government will let us give free energy to the people? Scientists have ummmm vanished in the process...

So lets stick to oil and corn squeezins fer now shall we?

US oil barons are the one that controls the oil market prices.

Venezuela supplies oil to US if they want to increase the price of oil per barrel they pretty much can do it or they can increase the taxes on the oil.

While the fight goes on it will affect the nation not matter what because every time somebody farts from the oil producing countries we can smell it here at the gas pump.

Venezuela can always sell to China or India at the price they pretty much feel like it.

I assume you mean Sulphuric acid from batteries? Hydrochloric goes into my swimming pool... it sure does a number on germs and algae...

Off moment, sorry!! Haha, I am only 16 years old lol. How old are you (sorry for being off topic, i dont feel like messaging you)

Hehe, but you're wrong again... Hydrochloric doesn't go into your pool unless you want to lower the pH. I think you mean Sodium Hypochlorite. That's used as your bleaching agent.

On topic again:

Ummm... about the hydrogen fuel. Isn't there some term (i forgot) that they use to describe the weakening of a container that holds hydrogen because it leaks out of its container due to the atom being so tiny? Eventually won't all the tanks degrade over time and need replacing? Nickel isn't the most common element of all the heavy metals and is relatively expensive, if this is implemented into 300 million cars and needs to be replaced, what possible alternatives do we have for storing the fuel? I mean, I suppose they could recycle the used nickel, but only for so long.

Alongside that, do you think it will be possible to use plasma to hold the hydrogen in and keep oxygen out until it gets to the fuel cell?

Originally posted by zorgon
SHHHHH Don't spill the beans! Besides that stuff is dangerous. It can literally destroy the solar system in the wrong hands!

Well i think their more worried about us overturning their cruise liner called planet Earth.

Besides what makes you think the government will let us give free energy to the people? Scientists have ummmm vanished in the process...

Lucky I'm not a scientist then. They wont give up their control without a good fight as the tens of millions of cold bodies they have stepped over proves...

So lets stick to oil and corn squeezins fer now shall we?

I'd much rather get off the farm if it's all the same to you. .

Stellar

Where is the proof for zero-point energy being tappable, it's not possible. The reason it's not well known is not because of a government cover-up but rather because it is impossible. To Stay on topic, I cannot see this happening as it would mean increasing oil prices for other countries as well as the US who would not be very happy. Despite this the US needs to get on the ball in researching possible alternative forms of energy as we rapidly approach/have reached peak oil and as they rely on enemies for what oil is left.

The use of the word impossible here is allowable based on our current understanding of quantum mechanical systems. Zero point energy is the LOWEST possible energy that a quantum system may possess. The ability to tap this energy is often cited in science fiction always lacking a acceptable answer for how it is done, I have also often heard of devices which can do this with a similar problem arrising. I opened the link you provided to see that it is rather large, if you point out the important areas i will view them with a skeptical but open mind.

As for peek oil not being a present problem, the same can be said for much of global warming and other reasons to switch to alternate fuel. The current global tempetures are not excessive to the point that it causes severe global food shortages/large economic problems/mass destruction of the earth's ecosystems(although to an extent this is occuring)ect. The reason for a switch is to prevent these issues from occuring in the future . The same goes for peak oil, oil shortages are not a major problem now, but without proper funding and advancement of alternate energy sources those problems will be the present in a short amount of time.

Originally posted by Liquid Swords1
The use of the word impossible here is allowable based on our current understanding of quantum mechanical systems.

If we are talking about your clearly limited understanding impossible might be a good word but not knowing or understanding reality has never changed it.

Zero point energy is the LOWEST possible energy that a quantum system may possess. The ability to tap this energy is often cited in science fiction always lacking a acceptable answer for how it is done, I have also often heard of devices which can do this with a similar problem arrising.

Don't know where you get your definitions from but that hardly describes it. The answer to how it is done is easily explained by every observable charge in our current universe that is continuously pouring out observable EM energy in all directions. That has NEVER been explained.

I opened the link you provided to see that it is rather large, if you point out the important areas i will view them with a skeptical but open mind.

I said you should check out the Paper by Tom Bearden and if that seemed too long to read your wasting my time.

As for peek oil not being a present problem, the same can be said for much of global warming and other reasons to switch to alternate fuel. The current global tempetures are not excessive to the point that it causes severe global food shortages/large economic problems/mass destruction of the earth's ecosystems(although to an extent this is occuring)ect.

So why then is it in the news so often?

The reason for a switch is to prevent these issues from occuring in the future .

We can keep using oil and prevent all these problems if we only implemented known technologies and made preserving the environment the second most important thing after human development. We can do both and with great ease.

The same goes for peak oil, oil shortages are not a major problem now, but without proper funding and advancement of alternate energy sources those problems will be the present in a short amount of time.

If by short amount of time you mean 50 to 100 years....

Stellar

If iran starts charging a hundred bucks a barrel, wouldnt it spur the us to look elsewhere for other fuels anyway which would up the research for another source of fuel by like a 1,00,000%? If im wrong someone please correct me.