Homosexuality and Sexual Deviance

It's pretty obvious:

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
Odium some very good points, I dont think that all gays should be punished for the actions of a few, hence why I wanted to start the subject. If you'll look at my last post you'll see what I want to get at, that it is my beleif that some people who take part in gay sex do not do so because they are attracted to the same sex but that they take part in it because they are attracted to the idea of being deviant.

The bolded text shows that you were NOT looking for an answer to your questions but a justification of your beliefs.

See my siggy.

I think that is in reguards to them having more representation in pedophiles then they do in the general population, also the other quote. Says that for every 2 strait pedophile males there are 1 gay pedophile male, now you need to compare the statistics of the 3% of males being gay. If gays dont overrepresent pedophile numbers than there would only be 3 gay pedophile men for every 100 strait pedophile men.

Hence the reason I am here seeking others thoughts not simply accepting what I beleive as truth. Hence me stating it was my "beleif"

The first beliefs you should challenge are your own.

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
I think that is in reguards to them having more representation in pedophiles then they do in the general population, also the other quote. Says that for every 2 strait pedophile males there are 1 gay pedophile male, now you need to compare the statistics of the 3% of males being gay. If gays dont overrepresent pedophile numbers than there would only be 3 gay pedophile men for every 100 strait pedophile men.

It'd be for every 97.

Also, what his quote means is that homosexual men are caught out more than straight men are at it. I.E: The Police are looking for them more.

I can see your point about being caught however to that extent I'm not so sure about. Also can anyone tell me at least what they think about my argument about some not being attracted to males but to deviance?

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
I can see your point about being caught however to that extent I'm not so sure about.

The problem is. Do the Police look more for homosexuals who commit crime. It is the same for ethnic groups. Do they commit more crime or if it is reported [say they say the person is black] does problems with the Police [bigots in the police force] go out to look for that person. After all, not all cases can be investigated so which one do they pick?

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
Also can anyone tell me at least what they think about my argument about some not being attracted to males but to deviance?

That's just a case of people being people. Soem people like the idea of going out and "trying something" because it is wrong. It probably happens once for a lot of people, realise they don't like it and go back to being "non-deviant." However, I doubt it is as common as drug abuse, etc.

I think you would be right about police activity looking for gays, but I would think that most pedophilia is so much looked for as it is reported, id imagine percentage of reports are just about the same as those charged with the crime. So do you think children are somewhere around 50Xs more likley to report gay pedophilia than they are strait? Well I gadda get ready for work guys I'll pick up when I get back in about 6 hours

The problem is. Do the Police look more for homosexuals who commit crime.

Perhaps it's not the police, but the parents. I've come up with a few questions about some hypothetical situations that maybe a parent or anyone else might want to think about or answer:

1. If you had a 15 year old daughter who was dating an 18 year old, would you be more likely to press charges if it was a lesbian relationship or a heterosexual relationship? Likewise, would you find it more acceptable if your 15 year old son was dating an 18 year old woman as opposed to a male?

2. Would you be more suspicious if a gay man took an active role in your child's life (family member, neighbor, teacher, coach, etc) as opposed to a straight man (especially if they were married and/or had children?)

Also:

3. Would a child (say, ages 6-10) who has little understanding of "gay relationships", but knows about "straight relationships" be more aware that something is wrong if they are molested by someone of the same sex?

4. Are girls molested by straight men more "ashamed" and thus less likely to speak up than a boy molested by a gay man?

Do these prejudices and misunderstandings factor into the fact that there are so many gay pedophiles?

Pink you have some very valid points and I would agree whole heartedly with you on 1 and 2. 3 I honestly dont think would have much effect if any on the reporting numbers. However 4 I think boys would be more ashamed of being molested by a man than a women.


Also intrepid I'd really appreciate your thoughts in reguard to those who are attracted to deviance as opposed to being attracted to the same sex

[edit on 30-7-2006 by ProjectChaos]

Project Chaos:

If we were to define "deviance" as any behavior engaged in by a minority of persons, then eating raw oysters, riding motorcycles, hang-gliding, body-surfing, going to live theatre, square dancing, stamp-collecting, chess, and baking would all be deviant.

Your definition is the problem with this entire thread. In truth, "deviance" isn't something that can be objectively defined. It involves a judgment call, a values statement, not merely observation. In the view of conservative Christians, homosexuality is deviant because it violates the norms they believe in; in my view, it is not, because it does not violate the norms that I believe in, which are different from the ones they do.

A better question to me than why some people are gay, is why do some people believe in norms of behavior according to which homosexuality is deviant? The Biblical passages condemning homosexuality do not explain this, because many Christians and Jews, who share the same Scripture with their culturally right-wing co-religionists, don't believe that way. With most People of the Book, scripture is used to justify and reinforce beliefs already held for other reasons. Core beliefs are very rarely challenged by a study of scripture.

So -- ask yourself this. Why is it that you wish to believe that homosexuality is deviant?

I'm not really sure where this thread is going or being led to but to put this in context I have read somewhere (feel free to correct this if it's wrong) that most serial killers are white, male and working class, not all serial killers are white working class men but that section of society is over represented in the stats.

What should we make of this? Do we start fearing white working class males or being suspicious of them because of some tenuous link with a homicidal few.

Guys! Really dont go defensive on me I apologize if the word deviant is negative for you. I'm not trying to say being gay is wrong if you look at my posts starting at the begining I am trying to accomplish a few things with this thread. 1. As two steps asked I beleive if you look at my first post I am trying to figure out why many hold gay as a bad thing. My theory stated in the original post is that this is due to people linking gays with other sexual deviant acts. My theory has now evolved because we are making progress here. I now feel that gays are looked upon negativly in the mainstream (I think if you look at the entire world through history gays being view negativly is more often than not) because it SEEMS they are more likly to commit other sexually deviant acts. I think however that they do not truly make up an undue number of othe sexual deviant acts. I think these numbers are shown as such because gays are little bit more likly to be reported. However, the majority of the overrepresentation can be drawn from people who are homosexuals of a sort but that they are not so much attracted to men as they are deviance.

I hope you can all try and help me learn and our community with this discussion, however I would request that you dont appoach this with hostility, I have tryed and feel I have shown nothing but respect and reason when approaching the topic, yet numerous times I have been insulted by other members.

[edit on 30-7-2006 by ProjectChaos]

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
Also intrepid I'd really appreciate your thoughts in reguard to those who are attracted to deviance as opposed to being attracted to the same sex

[edit on 30-7-2006 by ProjectChaos]

Sure. I did a little checking on your source, it's a lobby group:

www.frc.org...

The Family Research Council has made available an online version of the 2006 State Model Legislation brochure. The booklet mirrors the print version and incorporates well thought-out pro-family policies from around the country. In this publication we have chosen twenty-one bills which cover issues on bioethics, human life, marriage, and family to provide legislators and pro-family activists with the language needed to assist in the passage of future pro-family legislation.

I bolded the pertainent word. Think about that. Provide them with the language? Hardly sound unbiased.

Ha! The family research council?!?

Ok, that is like wanting to prove that african americans are genetically inferior (which of course I do NOT believe) by quoting from the Ku Klux Klan. That group that you sourced is the same group that believes in sending gay people to "camps" where they are "conditioned" to become straight. You know, they use the common items that all ethical therapists use: electrocution, mental and physical abuse, forcing them to have sex with females/males to become straight. Oh yeah, great group.

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
also I found some statistics althoe they do come from a biased source the studys the source gets them from do not seem to be.

· A study on pedophilia in the Psychiatric Journal of the University of Ottawa reported: "According to the literature, findings of a two-to-one ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles have been documented."

Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.

source

OK so I did already state that it was from a biased source but if you read WHAT I'V ALREADY SAID where they get thier info from does not seem to be biased example being University of Ottawa study.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
Also intrepid I'd really appreciate your thoughts in reguard to those who are attracted to deviance as opposed to being attracted to the same sex

[edit on 30-7-2006 by ProjectChaos]

Sure. I did a little checking on your source, it's a lobby group:
www.frc.org...]

How did checking my source answer the question?

[edit on 30-7-2006 by ProjectChaos]

Originally posted by ProjectChaos
OK so I did already state that it was from a biased source but if you read WHAT I'V ALREADY SAID where they get thier info from does not seem to be biased example being University of Ottawa study.

I guess we're going to need to agree to disagree. I see anything that is touched by those groups as being twisted for their own propaganda. Sadly enough, and to be fair, there are many groups on the other side of the spectrum that are acting just as guilty. All I can say is what I feel is correct for myself, as quite frankly it is no one else's place in my opinion to judge others for their actions in these regards. I do not feel as though homosexuality is a deviant form, as I have never had anything to deviate from. For me it's the men, that's pretty much it. I harm no one else, and that would be my outlook no matter what sexual orientation that I ended up with.

btw, I wasn't bashing you, I was bashing the source, so please don't take offense. just have bad memories of dealing with those people and helping a friend.

Niteboy not sure whether your gay or not from your quote

I have never had anything to deviate from.

but if you are do you feel or have you ever met anyone that you felt was not really attracted to the same sex as much as they were attracted to "socially rebellious sexual practices" (figured it might be a more fitting term) my apologies is i assumed in correctly but I would still greatly appreciate your thaughts.

Originally posted by ProjectChaos


OK so I did already state that it was from a biased source but if you read WHAT I'V ALREADY SAID where they get thier info from does not seem to be biased example being University of Ottawa study.

Niteboy said it all. They take info and twist it to serve their needs.

OK, remember what Homer said when Brockman pointed out that sack beatings had gone up 400% since the militia took over? "Kent, you can make statisics say anything, 18.6% of people know that." A joke of course but was very poiniant.

Deveant would mean to deviate from what is 'supose to be' (I won't use the word 'mormal' lol)

Now, without using religion as a topic or agrument, I only want to point out how this country got it's begining (we are talking about USA now). It was based on people of moral standard (these people were bible believers and practiced as such). Therefore, going back to the basics - what this USA was founded for and established as - anything unbiblical would be 'deviant'.

(Yes, yes, yes... please do skip the aurgument about 'times have changed' and 'living in the year 2006' --- we can't possibly through out every nit picky thing or it would be impossible to talk about any issue at all.

The above reply, was written as a biasic answer, not giving any merit or empathy to anyones beliefs or opinions (including those of my own).