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'New dawn' breaking for assembly

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posted on Jul, 24 2006 @ 06:05 AM
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Legislation that will give the Welsh assembly more powers is facing its final hurdle.

Later on Monday, the House of Lords will debate the Government of Wales Bill, which will allow politicians in Cardiff Bay to make their own laws.

Welsh Secretary Peter Hain has called it a new dawn for devolution, but he also said the bill was on a knife-edge.

If peers do not accept the bill, it will run out of time and will have to be reintroduced in October.

The new legislation would be the biggest transfer of power since the assembly began sitting seven years ago.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


news.bbc.co.uk...

I believe, that if this is passed, the Welsh Assembly (or senate as its called in Welsh) will be given the same powers as the Scottish Parliament. But, as Peter Hain said, its on a "knife-edge" and it has had changes made to it in the House Of Lords.




posted on Jul, 24 2006 @ 12:48 PM
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Nice.

Power devolved closer to the people, quite right too.

Now if only the English could get a sensible concensus going about an English Parliament or regional Assemblies.

Westminster (the UK Parliament) will have it's proper and 'over-arching' place, of course, but the 'Home Nations' should all have proper and meaningful devolved institutions IMO.

Did you catch this one (yeah and I didn't miss the irony that it is happening under a period of 'Direct Rule' and not whilst the NI Assembly is up and running.......but nevertheless it is being enacted under a devolved set of powers currently held on the Assembies' behalf by the Sec of State and not 'the government' at Westminster, as it were).


Secretary of State Peter Hain said Northern Ireland was "leading the rest of the UK" in green energy provision.

Under proposed building regulation changes, the use of renewable energy in new builds will be mandatory from 2008.

news.bbc.co.uk...

This bodes well for us all, even for those who still don't believe that 'global warming' is a reality a clean, sustainable and efficient series of measures like this makes enormous sense.


[edit on 24-7-2006 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Jul, 24 2006 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Now if only the English could get a sensible concensus going about an English Parliament or regional Assemblies.


Until the right stop hugging the idea of English independence and the idea of a closed society, we will never see one. Blair and Brown are flirting with the idea (well, they have to really cause the tories "get out of Westminister if you ain't English" is going to end up breaking up the Union).



posted on Jul, 24 2006 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by infinite
Until the right stop hugging the idea of English independence and the idea of a closed society, we will never see one.


- Sadly I think this is spot on the money, infinite.

Pity someone isn't minded to go reclaim that ground, cos IMO there is a lot to be gained that is currently passing people by.


Blair and Brown are flirting with the idea (well, they have to really


- In fairness I don't think it is just that, I think it's fair to say they are genuine in believing in devolving power (their record certinly shows that).


cause the tories "get out of Westminister if you ain't English" is going to end up breaking up the Union).


- I agree with this 100%.
It's dangerous lunacy (or rather it would be if it stood a hope of popular support).

I know I appreciate a well-aimed jibe at the tories as much as the next man (
) but it amazes me that they continue to tollerate this kind of insane opportunism.

The record shows pretty well, I think, that their identifying and then attempting to shore up their core vote on the 'Alf Garnet' end of the spectrum has done nothing but bring them repeated disaster......a few cool and educated tory heads capable of seeing that that wasn't always 'where the tory party were coming' from would do them the power of good.

(which was something I did wonder if Cameron might be but his general crass superficiality and complete silence on this kind of serious matter is speaking volumes to the contrary IMO)



posted on Jul, 24 2006 @ 06:03 PM
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I do have a theory, that after the summer break, we will see plans made for an English parliament being brougth forward. Blair strongly believes in English devolution and he does want to leave office on a high, an English parliament will probably be it.

(if the tory backbenchers get off the "far right" card)

[edit on 24-7-2006 by infinite]



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 05:49 AM
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its been passed.



A bill to give the Welsh assembly new powers is to become law later after opposition parties in the House of Lords withdrew their opposition.

The end of the standoff between the Lords and the Commons means the Government of Wales Bill will receive its Royal Assent on Tuesday afternoon.

Changes to the assembly's structure and electoral system will be in place by next May's elections.

The bill allows AMs to make their own laws without going through Parliament.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


news.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 06:12 AM
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A problem with this proposal is that it will not give the Welsh assembly the same powers as the Scots have. It will simply allow them to draft their own legislation in specific areas if they are given permission to do so by Westminster. It is a sort of subcontracting process on a case by case basis. Furthermore they will not have tax raising powers.

There are two underlying problems with the devolved powers we currently "enjoy":

1. Different areas have entirely different levels of powers available to them. This has left an appaling mish mash of a siutation with different bodies being responsible for the same activities depending on where you live. These assemblies may have quite high levels of independence such as in Scotland or be unelected super councils such as in parts of England. The situation today looks far more like a mess that has evolved over 300 years and needs sorting out than one that was "carefully thought out" during the life of the present Government.

2. We are woefully short of high quailty politicians in Westminster, let alone spread over anything between three and ten regional assemblies across Britain.







[edit on 25-7-2006 by timeless test]



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
I do have a theory, that after the summer break, we will see plans made for an English parliament being brougth forward. Blair strongly believes in English devolution and he does want to leave office on a high, an English parliament will probably be it.





You sure? As in give England a parliament of its own? Or are you actually refering to the vile regionalisation plan that the Government keeps under its wing.

People don't want regionalisation as seen by the vote in the north east.



North East votes 'no' to assembly
The total number of people voting against the plans was 696,519 (78%), while 197,310 (22%) voted in favour.


People want proper well thoughtout devolution, I personally favour a parliament for England and a strengthening of the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly with powers transfered away from Westminster.
Westminster would remain but with a reduced MP count and a more focused target for its power, eg International aid, military etc etc

edit: because I keep refering to people as I, I am the people for the people because I can't write properly


[edit on 25-7-2006 by Prometheus James]



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:13 AM
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...actually some areas have their own Government in the United Kingdom.

Liverpool is an example of this. Where prostitution was legalized. London is anothere. There are in fact several of them, but the "common man" just has no clue about it.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
...actually some areas have their own Government in the United Kingdom.

Liverpool is an example of this. Where prostitution was legalized. London is anothere. There are in fact several of them, but the "common man" just has no clue about it.


Because our lovely Government filled with honest and upstanding people decided that the people of the North East were only joking and that it was ok to start regionalising England.

Giving major cities more power I'm all for, but regionalisation



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by Prometheus James
Because our lovely Government filled with honest and upstanding people decided that the people of the North East were only joking and that it was ok to start regionalising England.


I don't believe there was a vote, serveral hundred years ago on the issue. When Liverpool was given this power. Along with many other Port towns during their historical power rise. I could be wrong, however I am sure you can show us these votes from back then?


Originally posted by Prometheus James
Giving major cities more power I'm all for, but regionalisation


Good for you.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
I don't believe there was a vote, serveral hundred years ago on the issue. When Liverpool was given this power. Along with many other Port towns during their historical power rise. I could be wrong, however I am sure you can show us these votes from back then?


I was refering to the (undemocratic) regional assemblies that are popping up, I apoligise if my wording was poorly constructed leading you to believe I was refering to Liverpool.


Originally posted by Odium
Good for you.


No no, good for you and have a jolly jolly day




[edit on 25-7-2006 by Prometheus James]



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by Prometheus James
I was refering to the (undemocratic) regional assemblies that are popping up, I apoligise if my wording was poorly constructed leading you to believe I was refering to Liverpool.


Where?

Manchest, York, Liverpool and I can go on have had them for decades now.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
Where?


As an example:


East of England Regional Assembly

Welcome to the East of England Regional Assembly



Originally posted by Odium
Manchest, York, Liverpool and I can go on have had them for decades now.


I swear their cities and not regions



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by Prometheus James
As an example:


East of England Regional Assembly

Welcome to the East of England Regional Assembly


You need to go look into what the EERA does and what NERA was going to do, when Prescott set down his plans. In fact, the NERA was voted against on November I don't contest this. The problem is, that the EERA is nothing like what the bill Prescott wanted to pass through. It is in fact, like many Local Authorities have done for decades now. The Home Counties do it as do the Midlands. They have groups who look to make sure that each county within is doing similar policies and how they can help each other on many issues. Law and Order, Health Care and so on and so fourth.

In fact, all the EERA does is hold two meetings a year. It takes members of the local councils from a set area and people who have specialist knowledge. They meet up and try to remove any problems that might exist. These are things like having to travel between two local authorities for health care, due to the distance between residants and hospitals and so on and so fourth.


Originally posted by Odium
Manchest, York, Liverpool and I can go on have had them for decades now.



Originally posted by Prometheus James
I swear their cities and not regions


Actually now they're not. They got moved out of the Region and became independent of it. Take Liverpool for example, it was historically part of Lancashire but in 1880 became independent and its own region. This happens to all of them when they gain their own Parliament. They're then classed as their own independent region.

[edit on 25/7/2006 by Odium]



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 11:41 AM
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Well informed and accurate replies bringing facts and quality to the debate there Odium.

Way above.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Nice.

Power devolved closer to the people, quite right too.

Now if only the English could get a sensible concensus going about an English Parliament or regional Assemblies.

Westminster (the UK Parliament) will have it's proper and 'over-arching' place, of course, but the 'Home Nations' should all have proper and meaningful devolved institutions IMO.

Did you catch this one (yeah and I didn't miss the irony that it is happening under a period of 'Direct Rule' and not whilst the NI Assembly is up and running.......but nevertheless it is being enacted under a devolved set of powers currently held on the Assembies' behalf by the Sec of State and not 'the government' at Westminster, as it were).


Secretary of State Peter Hain said Northern Ireland was "leading the rest of the UK" in green energy provision.

Under proposed building regulation changes, the use of renewable energy in new builds will be mandatory from 2008.

news.bbc.co.uk...

This bodes well for us all, even for those who still don't believe that 'global warming' is a reality a clean, sustainable and efficient series of measures like this makes enormous sense.


[edit on 24-7-2006 by sminkeypinkey]


I agree that the English should have their own parliament as well. The one in Westminster is more for the whole kingdom.

Its not so different than the States, the idea of indivudal government for kingdom members. Each state has their own government, and most Americans pay more attention to state politics than national ones. It influences peoples lives more.

More power to the individual assemblies of Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland will be a very good thing indeed. Especially in Wales, where they have their own language, and have been a part of England for so long.



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Especially in Wales, where they have their own language, and have been a part of England for so long.


Blimey Skadi, I hope you weren't planning on visiting Wales anytime soon, people have had their holiday cottages burnt to the ground for a lot less...



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
In fact, all the EERA does is hold two meetings a year. It takes members of the local councils from a set area and people who have specialist knowledge. They meet up and try to remove any problems that might exist. These are things like having to travel between two local authorities for health care, due to the distance between residants and hospitals and so on and so fourth.


The main body meet twice a year but there are smaller groups that meet fairly regularly as well, I know that fully formed assemblies aren't here yet but this so called Government of ours still wishes to create them and not provide England with a fair parliament.



Originally posted by Odium
Actually now they're not. They got moved out of the Region and became independent of it. Take Liverpool for example, it was historically part of Lancashire but in 1880 became independent and its own region. This happens to all of them when they gain their own Parliament. They're then classed as their own independent region.


I don't sit on a high horse so I'll admit when someone fields a greater knowledge of a subject than me, thank you for enlightening me


[edit on 26-7-2006 by Prometheus James]

[edit on 26-7-2006 by Prometheus James]



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 01:13 PM
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LMAO @ timeless test.

=============================================================


Originally posted by Prometheus James
I know that fully formed assemblies aren't here yet but this so called Government of ours still wishes to create them and not provide England with a fair parliament.


- But that is just not true PJ.

This government would love to see a 'proper' English parliament (it's been a stated aim in several manifestos).

It's just that no-one is going to be allowed to turn the UK parliament at Westminster into one on a part-time basis (well not if they are serious about maintaining the UK they're not).

You'll also find that there is little point in 'party-politicising' this issue, one of the biggest driving forces behind this objective for the last few years is business and not the Labour party (so called government or not!
).


I don't sit on a high horse so I'll admit when someone fields a greater knowledge of a subject than me, thank you for enlightening me


- Kudos PJ, that's not always an easy thing to say.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by sminkeypinkey]



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