Israels worse nightmare

Originally posted by skippytjc
I am a little concerned about the Thumbs Up icon on a post labeled “Israel’s worst nightmare”. Concerned, but not shocked coming from the author.

Its funny: Israel is attacking Hezbollah and their supporting infrastructure as best they can, and in the mean time Hezbollah (Iran, Syria) are INDESCRIMINANTLY launching UNGUIDED rockets into Israel with the hopes of killing as many civilians as possible.

And you make a post to celebrate the Iranian technology they are using to do that.

Disgusting…

Mehran is a persian name, btw...

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by Rockpuck
If terrorist wouldnt have kidnaped ISraels soldiers those innocent people would
still be alive.

I'm sorry RockPuck.. THIS is disgusting..
Kidnapping soldiers is not an act of terror.. They are soldiers.. They are not in a peaceful area/time period..

Killing 100+ civilians for getting back 2 soldiers is absolutely preposterous..
Nobody's saying those soldiers are worthless. But they're soldiers and this is not a war. At least it wasn't so far.

I feel that Isreal has cut enough slack in this case, IMHO. How long should they sit around while rockets are launched into their country? And also, how many soldiers should be kidnapped? I, for one, like the example that I see here and think we would do well to somewhat adopt the same strategy.

Yield nothing when it comes to acts such as this. They were provoked, and now they feel the consequences. They also have the power to make it all end.

You cannot "deal" with terrorists. There is no "deal". No matter who the terrorist is.

Don't the Israelis have some of the best special forces in the world? So why couldn't they launch a precision SAS style rescue mission?

I don't doubt the provocation of Israel but they did seem all too happy to use this as an excuse for an all out assault. No getting away from the fact though that the kidnapping was a pre planned act of aggression and thus Lebanon can't really start crying that Israel hit them back hard.

In addition of kidnapping didn't hezbollah support it with a ROCKET attack? and an Artillery salvo to a foreign country is an act of war, right? And the country where the rockets were launched (Lebanon) is responsible for military activity in its territory, right? So Israel is responding to a military agression by military action against legitimate military infrastructure targets?
Fuel stations, bridges, Runways and roads are all Military targets, since they are and important part of the military capabilty of Lebanon and Hezbollah (and since Lebanese government allows Hezbollah to operate as an army inside it's borders, Hezbollah must be concidered a part of the Lebanon)


Zaphod
Could you use IRBM MIRVs with laser or heat quidance as and Anti tank or Anti Ship weapon? Payload should be heavier than normal TA-ATGMs

In actual fact the kidnap occurred, Israel retaliated with air strikes *and then* the rockets started firing in retaliation to these air strikes in a tit for tat campaign. That was the reasoning behind my post.



[edit on 18-7-2006 by waynos]

I understood that the kidnapping operation was supported by rocket and mortar fire?
But I'm not sure...

tbh neither was I after I read your reply, so I checked out the details before responding

At this point, what can Isreal do? I mean... what if they launched a ground campaign? Surely enough they would their Special Forces, only in the event of a Ground invasion, but if that happens, who's going to back Isreal up? And who's going to gang up on them? We already know Iran and Lebanon are in the fight, but more a sure to follow, Isreal has an overwhelming superior ground force in terms of training and capabilities.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by northwolf
I understood that the kidnapping operation was supported by rocket and mortar fire?
But I'm not sure...

Yes it was. But the truth is useless to people like bodrul and mehran...

I'm sorry RockPuck.. THIS is disgusting..
Kidnapping soldiers is not an act of terror.. They are soldiers.. They are not in a peaceful area/time period..

How many soldiers have to be kidnapped and how many rocket attacks would there have to be for it to be declared a terrorist attack dead?

C'mon people.. lets use the UN for what it was formed.
The killing HAS to stop..

The UN is absolutely useless. They won't do anything.
And yes the killing has to stop. And it will stop. All they have to do is return the soldiers and that's it! Extremely simple.

Is it just me or is this another case of 'Religion' and I am not picking a particular religion, just religion in general fanning the flames of hatred, creating two opposing sides that leads to so many deaths that could be avoided?

As far as I can tell people kill for 4 reason, Love, Hate, Money and most frequently religion.

In terms of the whole Israel thing, is anyone surprised this is happening? Pick a small part of the planet, add a few groups of people who don't like each other - mix with religion, season with the american dollar and leave to bake a few years - volia, sweet and sour carnage.

Someone told me dolphins are the second most intelligent creature on earth, I wonder if they ever look at us and are greatful they weren't the most intelligent?

I understood that the kidnapping operation was supported by rocket and mortar fire?
But I'm not sure...
********************************************************************
Yes it was. But the truth is useless to people like bodrul and mehran...

Thatsjustwierd; Can you support this claim as all the reports I have checked make no mention of rocket and mortar firte during the kidnapping, only that it was a cross border raid (which part is obvious)?

Originally posted by waynos
I understood that the kidnapping operation was supported by rocket and mortar fire?
But I'm not sure...
********************************************************************
Yes it was. But the truth is useless to people like bodrul and mehran...

Thatsjustwierd; Can you support this claim as all the reports I have checked make no mention of rocket and mortar firte during the kidnapping, only that it was a cross border raid (which part is obvious)?

These rockets had been coming into Israel before any of the soldiers where actually taken. Israel is not responding to the kindnapping, they are responding because they have been to nice for to long and their enemies have built up. Also, Israel backed out of occupied territory, they have left Lebanon, have given up the Gaza strip declaring it an international frontier. Is attacking another countries soldiers at an outpost during what is supposed to be a peace time not an act of war or terrorism??

There is a reason why the international community has not condemned Israel, because she is acting like any democracy would.

UN troops in Lebanon is a joke, I pray our nation stays out of that and allows the rest of the world to go in maybe, but realize that Israel does not have to answer to anyone but her own people. Israel will not permit UN forces in there until they have destroyed Hezbollah significantly enough, then if the UN wants to put troops in, I am sure Israel will not have a problem with that, well that is until they fire another rocket into Israeli towns.

If I was a terrorist in Hezbolahh and I saw the death and destruction around me and all the innocent people dead because I was ignorant enough to launch a few rockets into Israel to murder civilians, I would not do it again. That obviously is not how these animals think, they do not give a damn about the people they claim to protect, the more of their people that die the better the sympathy from other countries will be. The poster above me had it right, you can not deal with these people, and they do not want to be dealt with.

I dont think anyone can do anything about this situation.The Jews and the Arabs have been fighting each other for 2000 years and they will be fighting for another 2000 years,so I think we should back off and let them duke it out and may the best man win.There will be another crisis just down the road for that region.I dont think either side remembers why they hate each other.

If this missle is used against israel than iran is asking to be bomb back to the stone age.

As hezbollah seem to be getting their grubby little hands on a some upgrades recentley. the UAV that hit the ship, now they have missles that can strike deep into israel.

Iran is playing with fire, and is gonna get burned, if they really think if the US decided that iran needed to be taken out, there not alot they could do. Im no fan of The US or Her president. but iran is no much in miltary terms for the US , if they want to send their airforce against the US. well ask saddam what use that will do, the US has the best toys and gagdets for it soilders. , american need not do anything, just sit back and let israel nuke iran.

I would put money on the fact that some nutter in the IDF has brought the idea up and im sure there are few people in the goverment would happily vote for the plan. and bush would leap for joy, in private of course and in public say that israel had no other choice, as iran is working towards nukes,and their president has repeatly said that israel should be wiped of the map. wouldn't surprize me if the aircraft are on standby in case the order comes, as they are At WAR!

Originally posted by Mehran
Iranian made artillery rocket Fajr-3 and Fajr-5 have shown Iran's military capabilities. I like to see your opinions about them. Another with the same name is Fajr-3 IRBM MIRV.

Military capabilities...What, you are proud of it? Proud of the fact that it took civilian lives in order to come to that conclusion?

^^^ Just a note here.

This thread was originally started in the Weaponry forum, but it was moved here as a result of the political discussion that ensued.

Originally posted by waynos
Thatsjustwierd; Can you support this claim as all the reports I have checked make no mention of rocket and mortar firte during the kidnapping, only that it was a cross border raid (which part is obvious)?

www.haaretz.com...

An initial inquiry revealed that the Hezbollah operatives had crossed the border earlier via a "dead zone" in the border fence not visible from any of the IDF lookout posts. There are dozens of similar "dead zones" along the northern border, though the IDF said that lookout cameras to cover this particular spot were due to be installed next week. The assailants may have used a wheeled ladder to climb over the fence.

The operatives hid themselves in an overgrown wadi about 200 meters on the Israeli side of the fence and waited until the IDF troops arrived, whereupon they attacked, apparently with a combination of explosives and antitank missiles.

Three soldiers were killed during the initial assault, while one soldier was seriously wounded, another lightly wounded and a third suffered a shrapnel scratch. In addition, the assailants kidnapped two soldiers, whose medical condition is unknown. According to the IDF, Hezbollah probably had an escape vehicle waiting on the other side of the fence. The entire incident took no more than 10 minutes, and the Israeli soldiers apparently never fired a shot.

Ambush and diversionary attack

Simultaneously with this ambush, Hezbollah also launched a diversionary attack: a barrage of mortar shells and Katyusha rockets on communities and IDF outposts in the western part of the border area. That assault wounded five civilians, though none seriously: Some were lightly wounded, and the others suffered from shock.

As soon as this barrage began, the Galilee Division conducted a routine check to ensure that all army outposts and vehicles were still in contact with headquarters, and quickly discovered that contact had been lost with the two jeeps patrolling near Zarit. Both jeeps had been damaged in the Hezbollah assault. A rescue force was summoned to the scene, and when it arrived, about half an hour after the attack, it found the two damaged jeeps and the dead and wounded soldiers. The rescue force soon realized that two of the soldiers had been kidnapped and sent out an alert.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Typical response.

So we should go by your line of thought, which would be because America armed Israel, which is the only reason they were not massacred after their founding, we should allow all terrorism? Because they are "Freedom fighters" for a few radical Islamist they should be pardoned from international war regulations?

first off a very typical response from you may i say
did i just Israel? the United States is proven to be the largest sponsore of terror cells around the world army more terrorists then Iran and syria and so on combined to push its own agenda ahead after they have proven their usefull ness they are let of the leach and become the main menace to society,

did i say they should be pardend from international laws?
or by your definition is sirael excempt from international Laws killing thousends of people and making thousends homless?

both sides use force Israel use more force and kill 10times more people

my line of response goes with look at your own country first before preaching about others or are you to short sighted to do that?
Iran may be bad but your country compared to it makes it look like a saint
let history speack for its self up to this day

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Of course, I forgot, because they are the "Oppressed" people, they cannot help it, they cannot fight conventional war so they don't need to follow the rules. You don't win wars like that, it is a messy business and if we continue to be weak and allowing militias to push us around, worrying about what little insignificant states in europe feel about it, we will never end this war.

Even if you do not support Israel, I do not see how it is hard to say the terrorist, i mean "Freedom fighters" tactics are just as bad as Israel bombing infrastructure. Israel may kill civilians but not on purpose, Hezbollah does it intentially.

call it what you want i said in diffrent views they are seen as diffrent things terrorists/freedom fighter no where did i quote what i thought they were

sorry couldnt help my self laughing Israel not killing cuvilians on purpose in one week they have managed to kill over 200 cuvilians in both palistian and labonan with only a handfull of israelis killed which were done by strikes after Israel bombed lebonan areas and killed familes

i dont see Israel following these rules blowing up power stations, bridges, roads
things that are protected under international laws

Originally posted by White Chapel
Typical anti-US bashing. Do you also blame the Russians when terrorists use AK-47's to shoot women who have the audicity to ride in the front seat of a car? What about China for the blades used to chop the heads off of innocent reporters, or perhaps the Japanese for making the camera that filmed it? This is a ridiculous and short-sighted post, I can't believe I even took the time to respond to it.

typical response
everythings anti US bashing if the US is put into the frame,
read my response again and if you cant post anything constructive dont
follow your own advice dont reply
i dont really expect a half decent reply from someone as ignorant as your self who goes down to personale attacks.

also terrorists dont just US aks they use a variety
as i said above read my reply again

Originally posted by Anon4this1

I feel that Isreal has cut enough slack in this case, IMHO. How long should they sit around while rockets are launched into their country? And also, how many soldiers should be kidnapped? I, for one, like the example that I see here and think we would do well to somewhat adopt the same strategy.

You cannot "deal" with terrorists. There is no "deal". No matter who the terrorist is.

its ok for Israel to imprison lebonease/palistians in raids on their homes speculatiosn they are part of a militia and according to americans and some other europeans its detaining and is done to protect their people yet when its on the other side its just plain kidnapping atleast it wasnt israeli cuvilians but people in uniform

also as stated before rockets on started hitting cuvilains areas in israel when israel launched the first deadly strike on leabonease soil killing countless familes,
or is it only ok for israel to defend its self not the lebonease?

Originally posted by snakebite
If this missle is used against israel than iran is asking to be bomb back to the stone age.

As hezbollah seem to be getting their grubby little hands on a some upgrades recentley. the UAV that hit the ship, now they have missles that can strike deep into israel.

Iran is playing with fire, and is gonna get burned, if they really think if the US decided that iran needed to be taken out, there not alot they could do. Im no fan of The US or Her president. but iran is no much in miltary terms for the US , if they want to send their airforce against the US. well ask saddam what use that will do, the US has the best toys and gagdets for it soilders. , american need not do anything, just sit back and let israel nuke iran.

before Iran is bombed back to the stone age
they would also send Israel back to the stone age this is a country that has countless missiles that can reach israel and with the sheer size of israel it wouldnt take alot to send it back to the stone ages, in sense israel would aslo be playing with fire,


to the dude that said a ground offencive
it would be deadly for israel as these arent palistain milita armed with home made weapons, hazbollah are well armed and can pack a punch

also whats with Mahren he starts a topic and when he is backed into a corner he doesnt say anything back?



[edit on 18-7-2006 by bodrul]

Originally posted by bodrul
before Iran is bombed back to the stone age
they would also send Israel back to the stone age this is a country that has countless missiles that can reach israel and with the sheer size of israel it wouldnt take alot to send it back to the stone ages, in sense israel would aslo be playing with fire,

It would seem that both sides have sufficient munitions, support and destructive capabilities to virtually ensure such a nightmare. no? Not necessarily for one side or the other, but for All.

Personally, I think the bigger question or concern should be, what will be the outcome if/when those who support either side are drawn into the picture, whether directly or by proxy.

In my opinion, the whole situation is a tinder box, stoked by many, fueled by political agendas, and all that is needed is the spark that will set it ablaze. The ensuing fire will ultimately engulf the Entirety of the ME.

Welcome to Our nightmare, All!

$ .02

Originally posted by snakebite
If this missle is used against israel than iran is asking to be bomb back to the stone age.

Good one

Any one of those wannabe "indigenous" missiles into Israel, and i can bet Israel would be sending in multiple silos of its own Jerico-3's perhaps tipped with nuke laden MIRV warheads.

Also dont forget that Israel has systems to avert such an Iranian attack in the Arrow-2 and the THAAD.

Fate of Iranian missiles :