Go Hezboulah! Go Hamas!

Go Hezboulah! Go Hamas!

After Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated, on November 4, 1995, Israel seemed to have lost it’s moral edge. A hero of the 1967 Six Day War, he was elected the youngest prime minister and first to have been born in Israel, in 1974. When he spoke, people listened.

Born in 1922 in Jerusalem, on gradation from high school he joined the Palmach - special forces - of the Haganah Jewish liberation organization. Called a terrorist by the British, one man’s hero is another man’s terrorist! The Palmach was disbanded in 1949, and Rabin joined the IDF where he served a total of 26 years fighting first for the establishment of Israel and then to defend it from attack before becoming a prominent Labor Party politician.

As one of the last remaining Israeli leaders to have been present at the beginning, he spoke with unrivaled and publicly unchallenged authority. He represented the last, best hope to resolve the fundamental issue - how two disparate people can peacefully occupy one land.

We are now living in the legacy of Ariel Sharon. Born in 1928, he joined the Gadna - a paramilitary group for youths - at age 14 in 1942. Sharon was like our Patton in the Six Day War, he commanded a tank battalion in the Sinai, under IDF Chief of Staff Yitzhak Rabin. Sharon led a successful attack on the Egyptian forces and distinguished himself there.

Regretfully, Sharon’s reputation was seriously sullied when he was the IDF Defense Minister in 1982. Israel had invaded Lebanon. Deja vu! The IDF had occupied Beirut. Two refugee camps for displaced persons was established in the capital. Sabra camp and Shatila camp.

The Lebanese Maronite Catholic Phalange forces killed 3,500 unarmed Palestinians in the 2 camps. The Sabra and Shatila Massacre took place on Sharon’s watch. The refugee camps were under the protection of the IDF. Sharon was thereafter called the Butcher of Beirut by Hezboulah and other Arabs living in Lebanon. (Note: Mr. Sharon is comatose, having suffered massive strokes last year.)

Both Hezboulah and Hamas are popular with the people they serve. There is no social safety net in Lebanon or occupied Palestine. Those 2 organizations have dispensed health care, food, and provided schooling to the inhabitants of those regions. They have proven incorruptible in their respective countries. This is why they enjoy popularity with the citizenry.

Both Israel and the United States prefer to ignore this and instead to accuse Hezboulah and Hamas of terrorism. Yes, that is true. Terrorism is the weapon of last resort. But it is also true that a very large amount of money each of the organization receive goes towards the non-violent aid to their respective people.

I just heard the POTUS and the Israel ambassador to the UN demand Hezboulah lay down their arms before there can be talks or peace. Are you crazy? If either of those groups laid down their arms, there would never be talks. We only talk about talks when our feet are held in the fire. Stop the fire, and we stop the talks.

Now I’m hearing that Western media mantra of “where are the moderate voices of Islam - of Arabs?” Why do they not ask where are the moderate voices of Israel? Or where are the moderate voices of America? More chicanery! More duplicity! America and Israel are being entirely disingenuous, as usual. And the main line media supply the usual pro Administration pro Israel anti Arab anti Islam propaganda. For accurate news, I suggest you try al Jeezera dot com.


[edit on 7/15/2006 by donwhite]

Israel has said that it would stop all military action in Lebanon "IF" the Muslim terrorists would stop, but clearly murder is all they understand.

As you can easily guess, they refused.

I am sorry; I have not net links on this……….Yet, I will post it as I see it.

This comes from cnn talking to TV stations in the area.

As far as the groups being popular-sure it is easy.
Go to private homes and bus. And shoot guns, rockets at Israel. When Israel responds to neutralize these murders, they come out of the wood work to help the poor innocent people who were injured because of the MURDERING terrorists!!!!!!!!!!!!


I hope every hamas/Hezbollah terrorist that murders or creates rockets of death receive the death they deserve-slow and painful.

Then and only then can peace be maintained!


[edit on 7/15/2006 by mrmonsoon]

I say GO ISREAL! I find it really ridiculous that Hamas and Hezbollah really think that by Kidnapping Isreali Soliders is gonna A. Be benefical for there countries, and B. Use that as a bargaining chip to release there own from Isreal's prisons..So Basically they are using violence to bread more violence that is the most Ignorant thing ever...As long as these militias exsist in these countries there WILL BE NO PEACE! Militias need to be dropped and government institutions such as say uhmmmmm an actual Army need to confront these problems. So screw the HEADER on this Article its absolutley ridiculous

Originally posted by Skeptik1st
I say GO ISREAL! I find it really ridiculous that Hamas and Hezbollah really think that by Kidnapping Isreali Soliders is gonna A. Be benefical for there countries, and B. Use that as a bargaining chip to release there own from Isreal's prisons..So Basically they are using violence to bread more violence that is the most Ignorant thing ever...As long as these militias exsist in these countries there WILL BE NO PEACE! Militias need to be dropped and government institutions such as say uhmmmmm an actual Army need to confront these problems. So screw the HEADER on this Article its absolutley ridiculous

Yes! GO ISRAEL! Israel is lighting the place up now like a bat out of hell. Who knows when they will stop after they've been pushed.

Warning Arabs Israel has bee let loose!

Today’s violence did not start with the 1 Israeli soldier kidnaped last week,

nor the 2 Israeli soldiers kidnaped and 4 killed, 4 days ago.

The Hamas have asked to swap the IDF soldier for all (or some) of the very large number of Arabs (Palestinians) being held by Israel as we are holding prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. In contravention of our own laws and in violation of International Law. The prisoners held by Israel have not been charged with a crime and I believe they have been denied legal representation.

As some sort of publicity stunt, every 30 days the uncharged people are brought before an Israeli judge who renews the 30 day detention order and postpones the prisoner's case another 30 days. This has been going on for years in some cases. Red state Americans have little regard for the humane treatment of prisoners and a low reagard for the rights of an accused. They show total disdain for the Laws of Nations. Same seems to go for Red state types in Israel.

I don't know what Hezboulah is asking for in exchange for the 2 IDF soldiers.

If you think Hezboulah and Hamas are bankrupt, what does that make Isreal and the United States?


[edit on 7/15/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
The Hamas have asked to swap the IDF soldier for all (or some) of the very large number of Arabs (Palestinians) being held by Israel ....

If they weren't in Israel causing trouble then they wouldn't be in an Israeli jail.

Hezbollah kidnaps Israelies and bombs Israel in an attempt to get
Islamic criminals out of the jails that they belong in ... how 'terrorist' of
them.

Islamic people have dozens of Islamic 'homeland' countries. The Jews have one
small country. The Islamic folks should be happy with their dozens and leave
the Jews to their one small slice of land. If they'd leave the Jews alone, they
wouldn't be having to deal with Muslims in Jewish prisons or Jewish bombs
falling on their pointed terrorist hezbollah heads.

Originally posted by donwhite

Today’s violence did not start with the 1 Israeli soldier kidnaped last week,

nor the 2 Israelis soldiers kidnaped and 4 killed, 4 days ago.

[edit on 15-7-2006 by Skeptik1st]




Hmmm thats funny i dont remember isreal bombing the sh!t out of lebannon 2 weeks ago...This conflict most defintley started with the incursion of Hamas...I find it funny that you think isreal is just starting this crap for the fun of it...Is that y isreal gave up land for peace? Honestly if i were isreal i wouldnt of wanted to give up any of my Land! and these extremist are just hell bent on killing ever one in that country


[edit on 15-7-2006 by Skeptik1st]

posted by FlyersFan

posted by donwhite

The Hamas have asked to swap the IDF soldier for all (or some) of the very large number of Arabs (Palestinians) being held by Israel ....

If they weren't in Israel causing trouble then they wouldn't be in an Israeli jail.

On reflection F/F, would you not admit that is too simplistic?

Hezboulah kidnaps Israelis and bombs Israel in an attempt to get -Islamic- criminals out of the jails they belong in . . -Islamic- people have dozens of -Islamic- 'homeland' countries. The Jews have one small country. The -Islamic- folks should be happy with their dozens and leave the Jews to their one small slice of land. If they'd leave the Jews alone, they wouldn't be having to deal with -Muslims- in Jewish prisons or Jewish bombs falling on their pointed terrorist Hezboulah heads. [Edited by Don W]

I guess it’s clear where you stand, F/F. Back to school with you!

Palestine 101. Arabs lived in what is now Israel before 1948 and many owned their homes, and their small businesses. They held title deeds to the land and improvements. Somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 of those land owners were forced off their property without compensation. Most were pushed into the Gaza Strip where they or their descendants remain today. They want their property back. Is that so surprising?

Q. Do you believe in the rule of law?



[edit on 7/15/2006 by donwhite]

Q. Do you believe in the rule of law?


Actually i do...Which is y i support Isreals right for there incursion into lebannon and Palestine. I believe they are well within there right to be doing what there doing after the actions of these 2 terrorist states

posted by Skeptik1st

Actually I do . . [respect the rule of law] Which is why I support Israelis right for their incursions into Lebanon and Palestine [Gaza]. I believe they are well within their right to be doing what they’re doing after the actions of these 2 terrorist states [Edited by Don W]

Neither Hezboulah nor Hamas are “ . . terrorist states.”

Despite Israel (and Bush43) efforts to make Hezboulah equal to Lebanon, they are not. Lebanon is the creature of the old League of Nations and was mis-ruled by France. Catholics numbered about 1/3rd of the population, but because France was in control, the Catholics were given a preeminent position in Lebanon’s political structure. The Constitution said only a Catholic could be president. The remaining 2/3rds of the population were Muslims. The Muslim majority has never accepted its subordinate position. Religion per se is not the issue. It would not matter to the Muslims if the 1/3rd were Protestants. Or Buddhists.

Israel withdrew from Lebanon 5 years ago. It had occupied the southern part for 17 years. Everyone knows that the governing majority of Lebanon stays in power on tenuous grounds. The Hezboulah are very popular with the Muslim majority. Even if the Lebanese government wanted to remove or restrain Hezboulah, they do not now nor have they ever had the power and necessary consent of the populace to do that. Israel knows that. Bush43 may not but Condo Rice does.

The incessant urging of Israel that Lebanon clean its house is wholly disingenuous. The agreed propaganda for America. Only Bush43 among world leaders believes that trite. The real tragedy is that during the last few years of Sharon’s premiership, the number of left leaning - say peacekiks - in Israel has declined. It was once near to a majority - never a majority but near - but now it is too far away for Labor to be able to lead Israel out of this quagmire. The Sharon-Perez unlikely duo will not do it. Too many right wingers. The Israeli hard right wing beeves that they can ultimately take 90% + of the old Mandate and make life so unbearable for the Arabs they will pick up an leave.

Nyet!


[edit on 7/15/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
I don't know what Hezboulah is asking for in exchange for the 2 IDF soldiers.

Well, I do.
They actually thought they were going to get between 1000 and 1500 terrorists in exchange-please-none with even one funtioning brain cell would honestly expect that to happen.

The murdering terrorists knew this, clearly they wanted to start full open war!

Well, they got it!!!!

I hope Israel removes all that filth so there can be peace again.

Animals like them need to be culled from the herd.

posted by mrmonsoon

They actually thought they were going to get between 1000 and 1500 terrorists in exchange . . The murdering terrorists clearly wanted to start full open war! Well, they got it! I hope Israel removes all that filth so there can be peace again. Animals like them need to be culled from the herd. [Edited by Don W]

I’m pretty sure this thoughtless move by Israel - over-reaction - will backfire. Sure, it plays well in our Red states, and that’s good for a few more billion, but with the world, it stinks. Israel has the poorest leadership since Bush43 became America’s first designated president.

Israel can defend itself, no one is denying them that intrinsic right. But when they over react and start targetting civilians for summary punishment it breachs the Geneva Conventions and the Universal Declaration of Human rights. To break those international rules they have no right whatsoever.

If Hezbollah kidnaps soldiers Israel should of sent in troops to get them. Wiping out power grids, airports and bridges across the entire country is not acceptable and points to what Putin termed "pursuing wider goals".

The kidnapping of Israeli soldiers does not give Israel carte blanche to punish entire nations.

[edit on 16/7/06 by subz]

We Face Annihilation

Lebanon says it faces "real annihilation" as it continues to be bombarded by Israel, retaliating against Hezbollah attacks on the city of Haifa which killed eight people and injured 20 others.

UK helicopters are believed to be taking EU leader Javier Solana to Beirut for talks aimed at ending the crisis, Sky News sources say.

It comes after Israel intensified its attacks and said it will not stop the offensive until "the reality changes" - but it confirmed it has no designs on reoccupying Lebanon.

www.sky.com...

160 people, who have no links or membership to Hizbollah are dead. Thats the total Skynews is stating. Those people are not terrorist. But the population of Lebanon now is starting to become very anti-Israel now, this has played into the hands of Hizbollah.

And, with the sword bashing of Iran and Syria, the stakes have been increased. Plus the Arab league isn't too pleased by this either. I have to agree with the majority who said that this has the potential to sucking in other nations too, not just Iran and Syria.

posted by infinite

“We Face Annihilation”

Lebanon faces "real annihilation" as Israel continues to bombard Lebanon, retaliating against Hizbollah attacks on the city of Haifa which killed eight people and injured 20 others. UK helicopters are believed to be taking EU leader Javier Solana to Beirut for talks aimed at ending the crisis, Skynews sources say. Israel said it will not stop until "the reality changes" - but it confirmed it has no designs on re-occupying Lebanon. [Edited by Don W]

Who is going to pay for the reconstruction of Lebanon’s infrastructure? And what indemnity is offered for those killed in the process of destroying a neighbor? Or, is this another example how the high and mighty go about wining the ‘hearts and minds’ of the lesser mortals?

160 people are dead. That’s the total Skynews is stating. Those people are not terrorist. But the population of Lebanon now is starting to become very anti-Israel now, this has played into the hands of Hizbollah. And, with the sword bashing of Iran and Syria, the stakes have been increased. Plus the Arab League isn't too pleased by this either. I have to agree with the majority who said this has the potential to sucking in other nations too, not just Iran and Syria.

Well, Infinite, Iran and Syria are enough. Syria is represented as being more a mirage than a real country. So no risk of total war from Damascus. The world’s oldest continuously occupied city. I hope no one turns the IDF loose on it.

As for Iran, too far away. It would be stupid of them to invade Iraq again. Anyway, the Iranians could block the Strait of Hormuz and then we’d see $100 + oil. The geography does not favor any other countries coming in openly.

So, “I” no end of time today.



[edit on 7/16/2006 by donwhite]

Well does anybody still remember the Holy Crusades?

The ones that took place in the Dark Ages, and when the Crusders from all over Europe came down to Middle East to take the Holy City of Jerusalem and keep it for theirs? They also created many smallers encalves - strongholds, cities, which they used to control the Region.

For a Time it was Good.

But the Stupid Crusaders made a Tiny mistake - upon the Arrival to Jerusalem, they Slaughtered EVERYBODY; Jews, Muslims even Christians living in the City. Basicly they pissed off pretty much everybody around. And the more they attacked the Muslims, the more they United themselves and were not anymore fragmented and Divided&Ruled. And then it happened - All of the Muslims Tribes, Religiou and Ethnic Groups United under ONE BANNER and they struck back. They took Jerusalem back with Ease and deflected every new Crusade, which were getting weaker and weaker. Slowly the Crusaders were pushed out of the Middle East.

And what Israel and USA with the "Coalition of the Willing" is doing today in the Middle East is ALOT similar to the historical events, which I just pointed out.

So how long do you think it will take for Muslims of the Middle East - or of the WORLD - to Unite against the Occupators?

Looking the way things are going, it will not take much longer now.

Ive always admired yor conviction Souljah but you present a simplistic view of the history of the Crusades. Yes the Crusaders of the first Crusade did indeed engage in wanton slaughter when they took Jerusalem. But to judge the Crusaders action by our own modern view point would be quite wrong. They were men of their times and it was quite normal to kill the populace of a City that had resisted a siege, there was nothing unusual about it and it certainly was not without presedent. Muslim leaders were not beyond the slaughter of people who resisted them in a siege any more than it was not beyond Christians.
As for taking Jerusalem it was far from easy for Saladin, he had to work long and hard to regain control of Jerusalem at the cost of many Muslim and Christian lives. Im aware you brought this up to illustrate a point but to compare the 2 situations is to compare apples and oranges
As far as it bieng a mistake for the Crusaders to kill the people of Jerusalem for resisting, if you said that to a Crusader, or a Moslem soldier under Saladin for that matter he would think you were quite mad, and possibly cut off your head to boot.

Originally posted by Souljah
Well does anybody still remember the Holy Crusades?

The ones that took place in the Dark Ages, and when the Crusders from all over Europe came down to Middle East to take the Holy City of Jerusalem and keep it for theirs? They also created many smallers encalves - strongholds, cities, which they used to control the Region.

For a Time it was Good.

But the Stupid Crusaders made a Tiny mistake - upon the Arrival to Jerusalem, they Slaughtered EVERYBODY; Jews, Muslims even Christians living in the City. Basicly they pissed off pretty much everybody around. And the more they attacked the Muslims, the more they United themselves and were not anymore fragmented and Divided&Ruled. And then it happened - All of the Muslims Tribes, Religiou and Ethnic Groups United under ONE BANNER and they struck back. They took Jerusalem back with Ease and deflected every new Crusade, which were getting weaker and weaker. Slowly the Crusaders were pushed out of the Middle East.

And what Israel and USA with the "Coalition of the Willing" is doing today in the Middle East is ALOT similar to the historical events, which I just pointed out.

So how long do you think it will take for Muslims of the Middle East - or of the WORLD - to Unite against the Occupators?

Looking the way things are going, it will not take much longer now.

OK I know this a very serious topic, but if we are moaning about occupiers (or even occupators?) here's an idea: Muslims want us "westerners/christians/infidels" to get out of the middle east so how about ALL of the occupiers go home to the countries of their origin? (yes all, Christian and Muslim)

Thats right; we will leave the middle east, and all Muslims will leave the 'West'.

Fair enough? Let's set a date; 1 year from now everyone goes home. OK.

Janus,

I think that the comparison between the Crusades and the events happening today are very much alike - once it Holy City used to be the Grand Prize; today it's Natural Resources and Profit. If you look at it from the Global Elite point of View - which have Established their own little Protectorate of Israel and took over Jerusalem - then they are the Todays Crusaders. Or at least the Masters of Puppets. Once Crusaders had Jerusalem in their Hands - today it's the same old story repeating itself. Once Crusaders had many other Enclaves in their Hands - today there is the Protectorate of Iraq in the hands of US Corporations, yet again ruled by the Global Elite.

And when Saladin did Conquer Jerusalem, he let everyone go; not only Christian Civilans, who do not want to remain the in the newly occupied Muslim Jerusalem - but he let go all the SOLDIERS too.


Moley,

Can you please point out a Single Muslim Country that has their own Miliary and Soldiers on Foreign, CHRISTIAN Land? I would love to hear about that. Thanks!

[edit on 16/7/06 by Souljah]

Souljah said:
And when Saladin did Conquer Jerusalem, he let everyone go; not only Christian Civilans, who do not want to remain the in the newly occupied Muslim Jerusalem - but he let go all the SOLDIERS too.

Thats true, but then Saladin was always a man before his time, i admire him greatly. Hell even Richard the Lionheart thought that Saladin was the paragon of chivalry, and thats comming from Europes formost Warrior and General at the time.
But Saladin really was a one off if you look at the Great men of his time.

And now back to normal service.

[edit on 16-7-2006 by Janus]