Do you think Israel will go into Syria?

Originally posted by Nygdan
Certainly Israel serves the US interest better than Syria and Iran.

Other then Militarily, how do they serve our interests in the ME? Surely its not diplomacy, can't be for oil, or natural gas, nothing aerospace related and definitly not agriculture.Technology? We have and have had our own technology. So what is it?
It would seem to me that if we were on better terms with these countries that we had been on better terms with in the past, we would actually benefit from it. Lets take Iraqi war for example..had we been on better terms with Iran and Syria, our Iraq endeavour would have been a lot less troublesome. Syria was quite helpful in Iraq war #1. As another example, petroleum, if we were on better terms with Iran and other ME & Arab countries they would be more pliable as far as flow and pricing of oil. Iran would not be a threat to us with their Nuclear aspirations if we were on better terms, 1982 Beirut marine barracks may not have taken place, the USS Cole attack may have been avoided, and the big one 9-11 may not have taken place. Do we give ME countries huge amounts of money? Do we give them loans that never have to be repaid or are cancelled? The majority of oil producing ME nations are pretty much self-suffiicient entities.
So please tell me how Israel has served our (OURS not theirs) interests in the Middle East?

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Originally posted by Nygdan
Certainly Israel serves the US interest better than Syria and Iran.

Other then Militarily, how do they serve our interests in the ME? Surely its not diplomacy, can't be for oil, or natural gas, nothing aerospace related and definitly not agriculture.Technology? We have and have had our own technology. So what is it?
It would seem to me that if we were on better terms with these countries that we had been on better terms with in the past, we would actually benefit from it. Lets take Iraqi war for example..had we been on better terms with Iran and Syria, our Iraq endeavour would have been a lot less troublesome. Syria was quite helpful in Iraq war #1. As another example, petroleum, if we were on better terms with Iran and other ME & Arab countries they would be more pliable as far as flow and pricing of oil. Iran would not be a threat to us with their Nuclear aspirations if we were on better terms, 1982 Beirut marine barracks may not have taken place, the USS Cole attack may have been avoided, and the big one 9-11 may not have taken place. Do we give ME countries huge amounts of money? Do we give them loans that never have to be repaid or are cancelled? The majority of oil producing ME nations are pretty much self-suffiicient entities.
So please tell me how Israel has served our (OURS not theirs) interests in the Middle East?

This question is very simple to answer.

Israel has added the U.S. in the effort to eliminate the Muslim extremist theocratical nations ever since 1942.

Sure half of the U.S. (the fascist part of the nation) only has oil in mind but the other half has the security of the world in mind and the elimination of theocratical nations will make the world one leap closer to world peace.

Originally posted by Techsnow
This question is very simple to answer.

Israel has added the U.S. in the effort to eliminate the Muslim extremist theocratical nations ever since 1942.

Sure half of the U.S. (the fascist part of the nation) only has oil in mind but the other half has the security of the world in mind and the elimination of theocratical nations will make the world one leap closer to world peace.

So you are saying before the Palestine/Israeli issue over statehood and partitioning, that we had these problems with muslims and arab countries?

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Originally posted by Techsnow
This question is very simple to answer.

Israel has added the U.S. in the effort to eliminate the Muslim extremist theocratical nations ever since 1942.

Sure half of the U.S. (the fascist part of the nation) only has oil in mind but the other half has the security of the world in mind and the elimination of theocratical nations will make the world one leap closer to world peace.

So you are saying before the Palestine/Israeli issue over statehood and partitioning, that we had these problems with muslims and arab countries?

Basically, yes. I am saying ever since Israel has been formed, many nations and world leaders had a great plan in mind to eliminate theocratical nations from the world.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
No Israel is not going into Syria and that is why this particular conflict is not WW3 like many are saying. It stops at lebanon...when Israle is satisfied that hezbellah is pretty much destroyed then it will be over...in about 7 more days.

Haha, thats so funny. All you armchair Generals claiming Israel can do this and that, topped off by the statement above.

You do know that Israel not only failed to destroy Hezbollah in a 20 year long war with them, but Hezbollah are widely credited for forcing the Israeli withdrawl which cost many IDF lives.

Also, Israel so far has failed to collect the bodies of several soldiers who were killed in the first border clashes when they crossed into Lebanon and has resorted to air power to intimidate the Labanese into pressuring Hezbollah.

They haven't got the bodies because they know full well that crossing the border will mean heavy fighting and heavy casualties.

Air power alone is next to useless when fighting a largely infantry force in rugged terrain. You need boots on the ground and Israel wants to avoid this as they know it will be a hard fight.

Hezbollah are not Hamas. They are well equipped and trained and can put up a good fight against the IDF, as they have shown in the past. They're not a bunch of cowardly terrorists, but expierienced and determind Guerilla's.

Thats not to say they have never committed terrorist acts, but they are much more inclined to go toe to toe with an Army than blow up school kids on a bus.

Originally posted by Techsnow

Basically, yes. I am saying ever since Israel has been formed, many nations and world leaders had a great plan in mind to eliminate theocratical nations from the world.

Im at a loss for words. I have never heard of this before. Well I have but its always been the radicals making these claims that we and israel were out to take them down. So they are telling the truth to some extent ? It does sound kind of crusadish that we would single out muslim run governments and leave only the judaic/christian ones.
If all religion were taken out of the ME it would probably be nice, but when I say all..I mean not just select ones, but all of them. Its not going to happen though as you already see what kind of reactions Israel has been getting all these years and now spilling over to US Soil. It still takes us back to my point being that we would benefit more by working with ME states on an equal level then treating one better then the others on an unequal level. We should not be playing favorites.


Pie

pieman,

I agree with you in principle, but in a logical, working world, what you are suggesting is pragmatically impossible. We have already chosen sides.

Now it is a matter of either standing up to our commitments, or bailing as we did in Vietnam. I do not see us bailing on Israel.

I believe that all thinking people want what you suggest, a world without religious strife, where intellectual debate is the rule of the day. It just is not today, not here and now and that is what we are faced with. The here and now.

Semper

QUOTE: "Other then Militarily, how do they serve our interests in the ME? Surely its not diplomacy, can't be for oil, or natural gas, nothing aerospace related and definitly not agriculture.Technology? We have and have had our own technology."


How can it not be for oil when they are located on OIL'S DOORSTEP LOL????

Originally posted by semperfortis
pieman,
Now it is a matter of either standing up to our commitments, or bailing as we did in Vietnam. I do not see us bailing on Israel.

I believe that all thinking people want what you suggest, a world without religious strife, where intellectual debate is the rule of the day. It just is not today, not here and now and that is what we are faced with. The here and now.

Semper

Semper I appreciate the response.

I am not suggesting that happens, I was asserting its impossible. We cannot allow 1 to remain while the rest are eradicated. This has been exactly what the extremists are hollering about. Its predjudical and its unfair. Each ME government has its own extremist in government. None of them are immune. Judaic as well as Islamic.
I understand fully that we won't bail on Israel, however that hasn't stopped Israel from bailing on us many times in the past. As in all investments that do not pan out and continue to lose money,we should either seek new venues or speak to the board of directors and make them produce some profits, instead of allowing them to hand themselves handsome salaries and using the corporate jet to fly around in at a whim. Are we allied to them or are they allied to us? We should make that distinction and follow through. Our security needs should be equal to or better then theirs, nothing less. If we give them Apache helicopters that are not to be used in agressive attacks and they are used in agressive attacks and targetted assasinations, then we are just as guilty by association. The same way Israelis targetted by Iranian made weapons used by Palestinian terrorists are entitled to reparations, these people being targetted by Israelis using weapons supplied by us out of agreed accords, are holding the USA responsible. It should be no different. It is overlooked and ignored. This in no way makes us appear to be the fair & balanced superpower we should be.
We were once welcomed and respected where ever we went, but that was then and this is the now.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
QUOTE: "Other then Militarily, how do they serve our interests in the ME? Surely its not diplomacy, can't be for oil, or natural gas, nothing aerospace related and definitly not agriculture.Technology? We have and have had our own technology."


How can it not be for oil when they are located on OIL'S DOORSTEP LOL????

Well what i meant was that they cannot supply us with oil. Its not one of their natural resources. They are on the doorstep but yet their oil does not come from the ME. It has to go the long route through other countries. The same way for natural gas. Its something a lot of people don't really think about as an agenda for them to have americans to pave the way for a pipeline to come through their backyard instead of being shipped in.

Have you noticed lately the sudden concern over South Africa coming from Israel lately in the UN?
What is one of their biggest commodities coming from South Africa? Gold and Diamonds. Muslims in control in SA that route is also cut off or at least hampered.
The israeli people themselves its probably a humanitarian thing, but the government its more of a economic thing. I would say thats plenty of reasons to foment hatred for muslims. I hardly think that they are serving our interests at all.
Its exactly the opposite.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
First off I do not know what this Iranian leader is talking about. Israel can decimate both Syria and Iran. And no China & Russia will not fight any war for Iran. Especially not against Israel with the International community then supporting them if China & Russia attacked them. Israel could inflict damage on both Russia's and China's army, no doubt about it. The only reason why this would bring International response is because of oil.

Personally I want Israel to bomb Iran's reactors, and kill its president. Because the president is a religious fanatic and likes causing problems.

And I truly believe Israel will get into a conflict with Syria and Iran, defeating their armies, and destroying Iran's nuclear capabilities, or the International community will agree with the US on the Iranian situation.

I wish I shared your confidence that China would not get involved. If Israel goes into Syria and Iran, it would be complete dominance of the oil in the region by Western interests.

China is intent on its position as the next global super-power. That requires alot of oil. They are just as serious as America is about having access to all the oil they need to maintain and encourage economic growth.

I wonder how much coincidence was involved in North Korea's missile tests directly before Israel's aggression against Hezbollah in Lebanon.

The whole mess is pretty sad, I don't think it will go nuclear - maybe just because the region is pretty small and it would effect everyone. What is the state of tactical nukes these days?

I don't think Israel will go into Syria without backing from the U.S..

[edit on 15-7-2006 by clearwater]

Israel is tough. They aren't going to take an guff from anyone. This all could have had a peaceful resolution. Israel tried to get their soldiers back the proper political way, going through the right channels. Until the Hezbollah tried to play their trump card. Israel's military is second to only the US in dedication and ordinance. If Syria threatens or uses force against any Israelis, yes, they will.

Israel will see it through to the end, be certain of that if nothing else.

The situation gets greatly complicated with Syria allowing free and safe passage to westerners
fleeing Lebanon.

Some hostilities will continue, but Israel will have to clear a safe zone soon to allow for evacuation
of high risk western citizens from the region.

I don't think it is wise to discuss further details on how or when the evacuation will take place or who is involved.

I think its true to say that Israel dont take no crap from anybody and I certainly think that if things keep escalating then yes, I certainly think they will move into Syria. You can tell thats what they want, look at all the missle strikes that have been aimed near the Syrian border lately. I'm not saying Israel would win the fight if they moved into Syria, but I really think they will move in if things keep getting worse.

In my opinion, Israel is not going to send any ground forces to Syria, just because of the simple fact that they wouldn't be able to do so. They have a strong and modern army, but not big enough in terms of both quantity and financially, to undertake an operation into Syria. Not even to speak of keeping the Syrian people under control (US - Iraq).

I wouldn't be surprised to see a massive air operation on Damascus within the coming couple of days/weeks, which would most likely lead to the intervention of Iran, and thus the US.

If my theory becomes reality I think we might finally speak of World War III.
Let us hope I am wrong.