The reason we go to church

The Judeo-Christian god just spoke to me!!! He said to tell you that he doesn't want you to go to church anymore...He wants you to know that the only true religion is a private and personal one. He wants you to start thinking for yourselves and he wants you to know that you are all absolutely free.

P.S and he loves you....and so do I

Now go celebrate the good news...unless you choose not to...which you can...because you are absolutely free.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
You can be a good person and go to Hell, too.

We should go to church for a few reasons, but the biggest reason is that God wants us to do that. If the church you frequent is not a good one but spiritually dead, you can certainly move your membership. Nothing says you have to stay! It took me a little while to figure that out as well. I think its because we humans hate change.

Where in the bible does it say that god or Jesus wants anyone to go to church? I think you're wrong here. Feel free to point me to scripture if I'm wrong.

[Edited on 10-27-2003 by Satyr]

Originally posted by heelstone
You can go to church, be a kind person, and everything, but if you aren't a Christian who accepts Jesus as your lord and savior, you will go to hell. So nice kindly jewish, muslim, and all other religious peoples are going straight to hell regardless of them being good and attentive of their church needs.

It also really doesn't matter how rotten you are in life. You are forgiven of all sins as long as you request it and make Jesus your lord and savior. Hitler even went to heaven while the people he had killed went to hell. Thats dogma for ya.

[Edited on 27-10-2003 by heelstone]

My friend Heelstone,

This is where I have great trouble with the Christian faith, and most other religions. Do Christians accept the fact there are several million people on this planet that have no idea who Jesus Christ was? Are these people also doomed to live in hell?

Quit teaching fear my friend. That is the problem with organized religion. "If you don't believe what we believe..." That is a load of hoaky. If you have faith in the father and realize that the Holy Spirit that resides in each and every one of us is of the father than your one step up on the rest of the world. God is love, not fear. Quit preaching it.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
My friend Heelstone,

This is where I have great trouble with the Christian faith, and most other religions. Do Christians accept the fact there are several million people on this planet that have no idea who Jesus Christ was? Are these people also doomed to live in hell?

Quit teaching fear my friend. That is the problem with organized religion. "If you don't believe what we believe..." That is a load of hoaky. If you have faith in the father and realize that the Holy Spirit that resides in each and every one of us is of the father than your one step up on the rest of the world. God is love, not fear. Quit preaching it.

Oh, I know. I'm an agnostic myself. Though I was taught to believe what I just typed. My entire family thinks in the silly manner in which I just expressed myself.

To answer the question of whether millions of non-christians will go to hell, the answer according to the christian faith is yes. They will all go to hell. Every last one of them. However, hell is not the fire and brimstone torture facility its made out to be by overzealous evangelists. Its basically the dark cold underworld of the Old Testament (Sheol) where you are without God. Its not exactly horrible, just maybe boring or something (I dunno). As I believe none of it, I don't hold such thoughts dearly.

[Edited on 27-10-2003 by heelstone]

Jesus can best be described as a rebel, who flaunted is dislike for dogma and fundamentalism.

Lets take a simple example: Lets say a person moves to Israel in the modern day and opens a store which includes pork skins and blood pudding in its menu (The advertising outside the store making this clear), besides him finding the store burnt to the ground one morning when he comes to open up what else could happen?

Offer such food to a rabbi in the modern day and what do you think will be his response?

Now lets go back about 2000 years and apply such relationships as related to blood and flesh, to such items as wine and bread. While it�s altogether true the meaning is symbolic, the response by those who could be classified as fundamentalist in those days would not.

If anything Jesus presented a secular orientation to religion with an emphasis upon spiritual development within the self/idividualism (for example "with the faith of a mustard seed one can move mountains").

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
You can be a good person and go to Hell, too.

We should go to church for a few reasons, but the biggest reason is that God wants us to do that. If the church you frequent is not a good one but spiritually dead, you can certainly move your membership. Nothing says you have to stay! It took me a little while to figure that out as well. I think its because we humans hate change.

Where in the bible does it say that god or Jesus wants anyone to go to church? I think you're wrong here. Feel free to point me to scripture if I'm wrong.

[Edited on 10-27-2003 by Satyr]

Basically, Jesus Christ did not come to establish such a thing as "Christianity".
Even the word is not in the Holy Scriptures. What Christ Jesus did do was to establish the Church, which Scripture calls both His Body and His Bride. the communion which man seeks with God is found by being part of the Church, something which St. Paul calls a "great mystery", whereby we become members of Christ: "of His flesh, and of His bones." (Ephesians 5:30)
The Bible also tells us that such as were being saved were added to the Church (Acts 2:47).
They were not merely making "decisions for Christ" -- again, not a Scriptural term -- but they were repenting, being baptized for the remission of their sins, and being added to the Church. (Acts 2:38 ff.)
There, they were continuing steadfastly in the Apostle's doctrine and fellowship, the Breaking of Bread (what is commonly called Holy Communion today), and prayer. Finally, from the day of Pentecost, the "birthday" of the Church, the Bible never speaks of Christians who were not a part of it. This sort of sums up why we speak so much of "The Church".

the Bible to be God's inspired word a part of the Tradition of the Church. (II Thessalonians, 2:15) In fact, it was the Church that gave us the Bible as we know it today!


In Christ, for the first time in history, God Himself became man. One of the many things that Christ revealed while in this world was the possibility of a personal relationship with God for those who believe. He brought those believers together and promised that nothing would ever prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18).
This Church was founded first upon the sufferings of Christ, then upon the sufferings of His Apostles, and finally upon the sufferings of the martyrs throughout the ages (I Peter 2:21, Colossians 1:24). Thus began Christianity.

From that day forward Christianity was endowed with power and began to spread to the ends of the earth. From Jerusalem the disciples of Christ traveled all over the known world: the Apostles Peter and Paul went to Greece and Rome, Andrew went to Russia, Mark went to Egypt, Simon went to England and Africa, Thomas went as far as India, and Matthew went to Ethiopia.
Although they were in different parts of the world they were of one heart and one soul (Acts 4:32) and taught one Lord, one Faith, and one baptism (Ephesians 4:5).


AFTER ALL THE APOSTLES had died, the believers looked to their successors to continue their work. These successors were those disciples who had actually traveled and preached with the Apostles and held fast to the Traditions that had been given to them by word or epistles (II Thessalonians 2:15).
One of these successors was a disciple of the Apostle John named Ignatius (�106). He was a little boy at the time of Christ. It is recorded that he was the little child that Christ set in the midst of the disciples when He said: Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Whosoever shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 18:2). When Ignatius grew up he became the Bishop of Antioch, the city where the disciples of Christ were first called Christians (Acts 11:26).


The earliest account of martyrdom is that of St. Stephen who was a deacon of the Church (Acts 6:5). He was stoned to death for preaching in the Jewish temple that Jesus Christ was the Messiah. As he was about to die he looked up towards Heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing on the right hand of God (Acts 7:55).


www.sisqtel.net...

www.ocf.org...

www.intratext.com...



[Edited on 10/27/2003 by helen670]

As far as the Sabbath goes, how exactly do we know which day it is on? Calendars have changed throughout the centuries. How do we know that God didn't start creating the universe on what would be our Wednesday, and the Sabbath is really Tuesday? I've never seen a verse declaring which actual day the Sabbath is on. Just that it was the 7th day.

Going to church is beneficial if it helps your spiritual quest. I have been to several churches of different denominations, and every one of them was made up of hypocrites and people who had no understanding of why they went. Some of the most judgmental, greedy, uncompassionate people I've met were dedicated church goers.

I'm sure not all churches are like this, but the one's I've been to are. You're perfectly welcome so long as you dress well, speak well, act according to their rules, etc. If not, don't expect for them to welcome you with open arms, at least not without "knowing" glances shot between members when you're not looking. If you study anything other than the church's doctrine, even if you are just trying to find the truth for yourself, you will be condemned.

It always amazed me how intolerant those who profess to be Christians can be. Especially since Christ, which they are named after, was the epitome of tolerance and love.

Good question. I once also went to church seeking God and my inner spirituality however, it doesnt work that way. All i found were an endless stream of unanswered questions and no one willing to talk about it. I then began seeking information online to satisfy my curiosity and found, there is more to "Religion" than meets the eye. now 7 yrs later i can honestly say im glad i walked away from church, it didnt strengthen my desire to grow but stunted it. There are many theories as to how religion began, the Zoroastrians being the oldest known religion to date, and the similarities between cultures and belief systems is too close to say 'ours is the true religion'. Could it be possible that was Gods plan to begin with, to force us to look at ourselves and replace our hate anger and fears aside and just 'get along'? Possibly but that is only one theory. The Evidence i've seen connecting all belief systems tells me that there is no one true belief, all are or none are. The only thing thats changed are the Names and fine details. We could be genetically altered from the Annanuki or we could be mere shells for spirits who come to this planet to experience feel thought and desire thru as human beings. I could say more but i'll leave that for another day.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
We should go to church for a few reasons, but the biggest reason is that God wants us to do that.

Actually thats not true. God says that he's in you. God is everywhere. You can talk to him whenever you want no matter where you are. You don't need to go to #en church to talk to god and be a spiritual person.

Originally posted by jezebel
As far as the Sabbath goes, how exactly do we know which day it is on? Calendars have changed throughout the centuries. How do we know that God didn't start creating the universe on what would be our Wednesday, and the Sabbath is really Tuesday? I've never seen a verse declaring which actual day the Sabbath is on. Just that it was the 7th day.

Going to church is beneficial if it helps your spiritual quest. I have been to several churches of different denominations, and every one of them was made up of hypocrites and people who had no understanding of why they went. Some of the most judgmental, greedy, uncompassionate people I've met were dedicated church goers.

I'm sure not all churches are like this, but the one's I've been to are. You're perfectly welcome so long as you dress well, speak well, act according to their rules, etc. If not, don't expect for them to welcome you with open arms, at least not without "knowing" glances shot between members when you're not looking. If you study anything other than the church's doctrine, even if you are just trying to find the truth for yourself, you will be condemned.

It always amazed me how intolerant those who profess to be Christians can be. Especially since Christ, which they are named after, was the epitome of tolerance and love.

Jez...When one goes to church.one goes for themselves and not to pass judgement to others around you!
Each and everyone of us will be judged....to what others think,say,do and act is up to them!
I myself have encountered people staring and whatever it was they were doing, but why should that bother me......it does to a certain degree, but I have to realize that I am not there for the people ...I am there because I want to be.....
Just because one is named a Christian does not mean that they are all good and rightous..let God be the judge of each and everyone of us.....
All of us have done something that we are not so happy about...but we do tend to find faults in others and look past our own faults....and I have myself judged others and guilty of the same thing...But we are all human and we all make mistakes and many times regret the things we do....but we also have in our nature to forgive and forget and get on with our lives....
Well I guess that is why Jesus Christ was crucified and was made known to man ....to teach us all that tolerance and love as you stated....can become real if we let it...
helen....

If you don't go to church or if you dont worship god, you are not going to go to hell. Who is to say that there is even such a place. I dont go to church because I fell that I dont have to spend two hours listening to a preacher. I dont worship someone but I do have beliefs that I believe in. Just because it is written in a book dosent mean that it is true. Believe what you want to and dont worry if you going to heaven or hell.

-Dagger

So..I figured since it was almost completely based on my or my mothers experience that it would only be right that I give my opinion/thoughts over the whole ordeal and going to church. First of all I don't go to church today and it really doesn't have anything to do with what happened then, but then again, in a more round about way it does. My mother does go to church -not Baptists-but nonetheless she goes, so perhaps it less of an impact on her then me.

I have thought about what happend over the years and how it could have possibly kept me out of church as it IS in the back of my mind whenever I contemplate going, which I usually only do on holidays lol!

There are several ways to look at the outcome thus far of the actions/words by them.

#1-They were just abundantly evil to begin with and Satan was working throu them to hurt my family and thus give our hearts and minds the bitterness as the reprecussion.

#2-It was all a *test* of faith for them and us from God because we all know He works in mysterious ways and thou we may tend to blame Satan for negative works He can take the blame for some as well.

#3-Satan wanted us to hate the church, to be angry with God and thus lose some or all of our faith in the church and the people that represent it(SB) Satan and God both test peoples faith.

So now those are just a few of the things I've thought about. I do feel that it was a test. From who? Not too sure. But there is an ultimate winner IMO. And that is God. I do not believe that my faith or spirituality would be even minutely as strong as it is now if I had continued to go to church. I went on my own personal quest to find God throu myself without judgement from the masses. I feel I've built a closer and stronger bond this way. Church has become something that lives inside of me in attendance all the time rather then certain times and days. God is there 24/7 whenever I feel I need Him. He is sacred to *me* and me alone and sometimes I am willing enough to share that sacredness with others whom I love and want to listen. He is not bound by religion inside me and yet at the same time I understand why He is bound in this manner for others.

Am I broken hearted by the things that took place then? Yes there are times I feel broken and sad, but then it clears and I know religion/church wasn't meant for me to begin with. So more then not, I amend and thank those people for what they said. I believe because of them, I found God.
Magestica

when i was reading all the negative posts about peoples church experiences...there were so many and your name kinda stuck in my brain for some reason, sorry didnt mean to singal anyone out

Jez...When one goes to church.one goes for themselves and not to pass judgment to others around you!

If this were true then their would be no reason to go to church, unless you couldn't study and worship on your own. The reason most people give is that you go to church for fellowship with other believers and to worship God.

If the attitudes of other people in church are a hindrance to those seeking knowledge, then it loses it's benefit. One can worship on their own, if they really have faith. They don't need anyone else's fellowship to do that.

No one should ever be made to feel uncomfortable when they are seeking spiritual encouragement or guidance. Yet this seems to be a major characteristic of many churches. They have become a means of brainwashing and control rather than the guiding Christ-like gatherings they were meant to be.

Anyone who feels they are growing as a result of their church, more power to them. I, personally, have not experienced this with any religious organization.

i think jesus said something along the lines of the church/kingdom of god being inside ones self and all around? correct me if im wrong, not quite a bible expert here. also, wasnt the first pope one of the diciples who betrayed jesus? just thought i heard that somewhere, though someone please correct me on these if necessary. i personally like the idea of it being within and without. to me, that eliminates the possibility of sin, but i will not get into that subject, unless provoked to do so.

Why does someone who does things out of love without wanting anything in return need to have people "praise him"? If he is truly benevolent than he does not need any reward or praise. So you tell me why it is so important to do something that is generally done to feed an ego when he is supposed to be humble and selfless.
hmmm

yes! nephratari, i think you said exactly what i have been thinking lately. how does the whole expect nothing in return rule affect god/jesus. imagine this: if they expect us to praise/worship them in return for them saving us/creating us, and i say... help a homeless person out of pure kindness, not wanting anything in return. does that make me more humble than god/jesus? you're probably saying "hell no!" at this time, but do you know why? because they dont expect anything from us, as it would not make sense for them to do so!

I do not go to church because there are so many church goers who are quick to judge anyone. Everytime I go to a church and they find out that I have never been part of a church they always ask " Do you have any questions about God, Jesus, ect.." Its like everyone there thinks I do not know what their religion teaches, I want to tell them I have a bible and I can read. Most church goers look down on drinking and smoking herb so I feel isolated when I go. Also this is important, but I have been involved with girls who go to church and no sex before marriage is a big deal to them, thats cool that they have faith, but we are human and it is only natural. Go to church, change my ways so i will fit, get a girlfriend that wont put out, and be happy, I think not.

My Uncle, who is an Athiest, makes about 50,000 a year as an engineer. He sends over 25,000 a year to disease treatment research and to help poor villages around the world. He gets by just fine with the money he has left.

He is the kindest, most intelligent guy I know, but since he doesn't go to church, he is going to go to hell?

like i said, church, inside and out, not in a building, as far as im concerned, your uncle is set, as are all of us. but then again, i dont believe in hell/heaven, so go figure.