Why so many single mothers?

Originally posted by missed_gear

Furthermore, the GAO once found that 28% of men that do not pay child support are either dead or living with the mother of the children.

If the father is living with the mother then he can't be ordered to pay child support (at least where I am from).

It does make one wonder though what percentage of mothers are lying about not receiving child support so that they do not get their AFDC payments reduced among various other 'perks' which can/will be abused.

In order to be on welfare they will go after child support for you and get court ordered child support payments so that they can keep track of how much you are getting. If you do not co-operate with their efforts in obtaining court ordered child support for you, then they kick you off the system.

However, there are women who get extra money from their baby's fathers and don't report it. Also, another common welfare fraud is that they will have a boyfriend living with them, and they won't report that persons income to the system.

I commend you for being a single father by the way.

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
If the father is living with the mother then he can't be ordered to pay child support (at least where I am from).

If the father is already living with the mother at the time of establishing paternity that may very well be true. There are a number of ways that could ‘work-out’.

But if an award was made by the court before the father moved in with the mother that is a different issue, at least in Texas. If a non-custodial parent is ordered to pay child support the sum must be paid/garnished and only after a request to the court for a reduction has been made will there be any consideration. There are also other stipulations which may apply such as the non-custodial parent carrying the full burden of health insurance on the children etc.

Secondly, the problem with the report ties into what you mention above and my earlier response:

The GAO report (GAO/HRD-92-39FS) questionnaire on page 14 of the afore mentioned report asked the question in this manner:

Has the parent moved back in with you? Yes.
Is there a child support award? Yes
Does he/she pay? No

So the stats are leaning to show that in a sizeable portion of cases there is no true reflection of reality because they are lumped as non-payers (dead-beats) despite their changed situation.

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
If you do not co-operate with their efforts in obtaining court ordered child support for you, then they kick you off the system.

True,

The problem is establishing paternity and location of some parents, no paternity no dad.

And a study in Texas showed:

The probability of an AFDC caretaker with an OAG case having an established child support award in place during any given quarter of the observation period was 47.7 percent.
Texas Study

Often this has also been used to extort from the father. The father enters an informal agreement to ‘pay’ outside of court if paternity is not established for many reasons (court costs, currently married, co-worker etc). Or the mother knows who/where the father is and threatens him with court action if he does not pay her directly and as unreported.

An acquaintance of mine did just this. He had a child he was unaware of and married to another woman later. When the child turned five she showed up at his door. She wanted indirect child support (nothing unreasonable but figured in back payments) paid on the side and she would continue to claim she did not know who the father was etc. He had a paternity test done and in fact it was his child (looks just like him). This went on until the child was eighteen when it was agreed to stop and it stopped. She received a tremendous amount of State and Federal aid.


mg

Originally posted by missed_gear
If the father is already living with the mother at the time of establishing paternity that may very well be true. There are a number of ways that could ‘work-out’.

But if an award was made by the court before the father moved in with the mother that is a different issue, at least in Texas. If a non-custodial parent is ordered to pay child support the sum must be paid/garnished and only after a request to the court for a reduction has been made will there be any consideration. There are also other stipulations which may apply such as the non-custodial parent carrying the full burden of health insurance on the children etc.

Secondly, the problem with the report ties into what you mention above and my earlier response:

The GAO report (GAO/HRD-92-39FS) questionnaire on page 14 of the afore mentioned report asked the question in this manner:

Has the parent moved back in with you? Yes.
Is there a child support award? Yes
Does he/she pay? No

So the stats are leaning to show that in a sizeable portion of cases there is no true reflection of reality because they are lumped as non-payers (dead-beats) despite their changed situation.

Well yeah then that is silly. I wouldn't want to pay child support either if I was living with the child and the other parent, and I know court fees to file a motion to get the child support order removed can be a bit expensive, especially for a family on a tight budget.

True,

The problem is establishing paternity and location of some parents, no paternity no dad.

And a study in Texas showed:

The probability of an AFDC caretaker with an OAG case having an established child support award in place during any given quarter of the observation period was 47.7 percent.
Texas Study

Often this has also been used to extort from the father. The father enters an informal agreement to ‘pay’ outside of court if paternity is not established for many reasons (court costs, currently married, co-worker etc). Or the mother knows who/where the father is and threatens him with court action if he does not pay her directly and as unreported.

An acquaintance of mine did just this. He had a child he was unaware of and married to another woman later. When the child turned five she showed up at his door. She wanted indirect child support (nothing unreasonable but figured in back payments) paid on the side and she would continue to claim she did not know who the father was etc. He had a paternity test done and in fact it was his child (looks just like him). This went on until the child was eighteen when it was agreed to stop and it stopped. She received a tremendous amount of State and Federal aid.


mg

Well from what I remember with my own experience, here in Minnesota, the system isn't very lenient with establishing paternity. If you don't give them all the names of every man you were with around the time of conception or give them legal documentation that the potential father is a danger to you and your child, then they kick you off the system.

If you tell them you don't know the guys name, they ask for a physical descriptions, what kind of car they drove...etc, and believe it or not, they do find the father from those little descriptions (makes you suspicious as of how).

I must say though, I don't sympathize with your friend. He could have at any time did the right thing and admitted to the authorities and his wife that he was the father of that child and not allowed that woman to play her little game. I am not saying that she was right in putting him in that spot, but he allowed her to continue to do it.

If for some reason you do give the mother non-court ordered child support, pay it with something traceable such as a check. Never cash. A friend of mine got out of paying a lot of back support by bringing in the duplicate checks he got from the bank that he had been giving to his ex.

I agree with many of the responses already given as to why there are so many single mothers.

Fact is that unless the woman was raped, it is the responsibility of both the man and woman to take measures against getting pregnant, if pregnancy is not desireable.

Some couples get caught up in the moment. Some women think getting pregnant is the only way to keep a certain man around. Some men don't like using condoms. Some women find out their boyfriend is an irresponsible child who doesn't know how to handle the situation, and leaves. Some women don't want the man around. Some women use the situation to hurt the man. Some men and women simply don't care for anything aside from that moment of pleasure. Some men and women get too drunk/high to know what they're doing. Some relationships don't end up in marriage. Some marriages don't work out for hundreds of reasons.

Today's world is more accepting of single mothers, and children without both parents. Yesterday's world looked down on them, and that is why the man ended up marrying his pregnant girlfriend, or the woman had an abortion (forced by boyfriend, parents, or by choice), or the child was taken from her. It was shamefull, it was nearly social suicide, and many times it was hidden from public view. That is one of the reasons why you see single mothers on the rise today.

The other reason for single motherhood (in my opinion) is that women are more liberated these days. They are no longer shunned (at least in most places around the U.S.) for going out to bars, clubs, dating frequently, etc. etc. Many single women lead a life that is in many ways similar to the way men have been leading their lives. You take two people who enjoy having 'fun' without social reprocussions, and you've just doubled the chance of single motherhood. Of course it is also my opinion that if men were able to give birth, there would be a lot of single fathers in the world as well.

Both men AND women have to hold responsibility for their own actions. In my opinion one isn't more 'responsible' than the other for bringing a life into the world. If you're not ready for children, always use some form of protection, at least try to choose a mate carefully, or simply abstain from sexual activity. If you want to lead your life recklessly,..... have a (financial) back-up plan and realize that bringing a child into the world is a VERY real possibility.
Excuses like 'she/he seduced me', or 'she's a gold digger' aren't acceptable. If you're not absolutely positive that the other person is responsible enough to handle such a situation, don't have sex with them! No one is holding a gun to your head,.. and if they are, well,.... make your choice wisely.

I think that as long as parents stress over and over again the importance of taking personal responsibility for each action, children will grow up to become better, more responsible adults.

I want to tell the story of a single mother I know. She had her first child when she was 22, and had 3 more over the next 10 years. None of the relationships with the fathers worked out, so she chose to raise her children on her own. She did everything she could to raise her children, from being a waitress, to diesel mechanic, to a secretary. For much of the time however, she was on welfare, and not just because she felt like it. She had been raised Irish Catholic, and was often too proud to ask others for help. Because of that, being on welfare was very hard for her. Her children saw this, and did everything they could do to make life easier for her. After all, tough times for her meant tough times for them.

Once her children were old enough (the youngest being in first grade), she decided to go back to school. She applied to Brown University because she felt she was smart enough for the Ivy League. They denied her the first time, and maybe even the second. Eventually her persistence paid off, and she was accepted into Brown’s graduate program. I’m sure the students out there know how hard it is to take care of yourself while in school, let alone a 5 person family, but she persisted.

A few years later, she had a master’s degree in Egyptology. There isn’t much demand for Egyptology in today’s job market, but who cares, it’s an extremely cool subject. Whether they realized it or not, her children developed an understanding for the importance of education. They realized that knowledge is more important than money, and that they could always get by without much money.

This mother has since continued her education and just received a PhD in Linguistic Anthropology. Her children are all grown. All either with good jobs, or currently in school. They are all very close, and keep a very close eye on one another, helping whenever they can. To me, it seems as though because they needed to rely on each other, the familial bonds grew stronger than many families I know.

The second child of that woman is, you guessed it, Detective Fish himself
Abe Vigoda



Just Joking, it was me.

Rasobasi,..... good story. I liked the ending especially. It seems she was a very good role model for you, and she accepted her responsibility the way we hope a lot of parents would.

I think it is quite simple, the men run off and abandon. Women can survive on their own now and there is artifical insemination. Women are tired of the struggle of relationships. Personally if I was to have a child ever again I would not want another man in my life.

I truely believe that people are afraid. Most people refuse to love or care with all their hearts. They find it foolish. They would rather disconnect than risk getting their hearts broken.

Women have been taken advantage of and underestamated for years. Most women pushed that whole womens right thing, because quite a few men found women incapable....weak. Well, women stood up and demanded respect. Unfortunatly, despite the effort of many, few have got it. Yea, we have proved that we can do what a man can do - for the most part. GREAT now there are a lot of women who have to do both jobs.

It is instinct for a woman to be "glue" so to speak. It is in our dna to keep things together. If a man is causing things to fall appart, or she has to take over his duties as well, then it is instictual for her to make him go away. It is quite difficult for one to glue something together if someone keeps pulling it appart.

Now, I understand that there are women out there who give Women a bad name. Some are mental, and others are that way because of what I stated at first. It is human nature to protect yourself. If it means becoming emotionally disconnected, then that is what happens.

As for those who choose to not be accountable for their actions, and would rather live off others.......ug I dont even want to go there tonight.

Since creating this post I have met even more and more single mothers. More then I have seen mothers in committed relationships.

I'm honestly kind of dissapointed with Earth and humanity so far in the 24 years I can say I have been alive.

Most of the problem started with two things.... welfare and The Womens Lib. movement.

Many of the programs started to "end poverty" did exactly the opposite, as there have been no real changes after spending almost 5 Trillion dollars. They were the cause of the destruction of the inner cities, and those living there. (it also buys a lot of votes). A state/federal check replaced the male figure at the dinner table, and the check got bigger with every new child.