Why so many single mothers?

Originally posted by dbrandt
You skipped over the 2 most important words in my post 'through Christ'. If you have Christ as Savior and Lord that's when you have self control and can live right. The majority do not have Him, that is why things are like they are.

In reading your original post, those two words did not strike me as the most important. I do not believe in Christian dogma. Jesus was a great man and said some really smart stuff, but he's not my saviour. And yet, I have absolutely no problems controlling my sexual urges. I have no problems controlling myself in any way, shape, or form. So not having Jesus as a personal saviour cannot be the deciding factor in why people are the way they are.

Originally posted by Jenna
Think about it for a minute. How many species do you know that have porn stores, sex for any reason other than reproduction, and have members that rape other members? I can only think of one. Humans. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure we are the only ones who do things like that. I can't think of a single species, besides humans, that have sex when they aren't trying to reproduce. To me, that makes it seem like animals have better control over their sexual urges than we do.

Actually, Bonobo chimps have sex with each other for pleasure, and to calm hostilities within the group. The intercourse isn't limited to m/f relations either. There are many instances where m/m intercourse is used as well. It should be noted that the Bonobo chimp is the most closely related primate to humans genetically.


As for single mothers, there have been a few times that we, the children of single parents, have been referred to as 'unfortunate', and 'illigitimate'. I'll tell you something outright. I've never felt unfortunate, despite the fact that others may have seen me that way based on their own prejudice. As for illegitimate, I've always had problems with people calling me illegitimate. It made me feel as if others didn't think of me a real (legitimate) child.

My mother was with my father for 7 years, and had 2 children with him, despite never being married. When they split up, it was her decision to remove him from our lives. So from personal experience, it doesn't look like an instance of the man being irresponsible or a deadbeat.

I'm willing to bet the 99/100 mothers being single is an exageration. Personally, I'm having trouble thinking of 100 mothers that I know off the top of my head.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Actually, Bonobo chimps have sex with each other for pleasure, and to calm hostilities within the group. The intercourse isn't limited to m/f relations either. There are many instances where m/m intercourse is used as well. It should be noted that the Bonobo chimp is the most closely related primate to humans genetically.

Thank you. I didn't know that. I figured there had to be some other species that did that though! And I agree with you. Sometimes it's the mother who causes the father to not be around. That's how mine was/is. My parents were together for 13 years, and then one day mom decided she didn't want dad in our lives anymore. It's now 10 years later and I still have to hide the fact that I still talk to him. I've never felt illegitimate or unfortunate either.

Don't forget Dolphins. They have seen Dolphins having sex for no reason too. At least I remember hearing that anyway.

the most unfortunately child that I can think of was a little girl who lived down the street from a duplex we were renting.

she had two older brothers who liked to beat on her.

she didn't own a coat to keep her warm on those cold winter mornings at the bus stop.

and there were many, many times, this little girl would go door to door asking if she could spend the night, because mommy and daddy (that's right, she had two parents) were drinking and she was afraid to be home.

I think it depends more on who and what your parents are rather than weather there's one or two involved in your life!!

I agree with dawn. Too often the wrong things are blamed for the state of a situation. For example, the idea that parents are single because they don't have Jesus in their lives. . People will blame the high crime rate on children of single parents, simply because the act was commited by someone who happened to be in that situation. It's almost a cop out. A way to avoid actually looking for the cause of a problem, and pinning it on what makes those people different than you.
ie: This person robs convenience stores. What makes them different from me? Well, they only have one parent. Therefore, 1 parent = robs convenience stores.

Originally posted by ImplementOfWar
99% of the last 100 women who I have known to have given birth are all SINGLE MOTHERS.

Is there some kind of social breakdown? Conspiracy?

Women, in general, hate men. And if they can figure out a way to fulfill their instinctual drive to procreate while having as little as possible to do with men (other than paying for it $$$$$), they will.

It's not surprising. As far as women are concerned, men are essentially brutal sex predators who run the world through intimidation and greater physical strength. Men have kept women in virtual slavery throughout civilization, taking advantage of their vulnerability during pregnancy and child-rearing.

Ever since women were allowed to vote, they've been slowly voting in laws that allow them to more easily divorce, get half of what the male has worked hard to gain, and to continue to feed off the male for "child support" after the divorce. Men certainly have no such legal advantage.

The result has been a flood of women who squeeze out children like cats in heat - each kid from a different daddy - gain complete control of the children, and force the father(s) to foot the bill. None of these women would consider actually not having kids. The horror! But because of the legal structure, being a single mother has become a viable alternative.

The only thing men can do to regain any sort of advantage is to not let themselves be brainwashed into thinking that having kids is a "manly" thing to do, explore vasectomies, and stop getting married in the first place. No matter how much a woman may whine about getting married, a man has to realize that he gets nothing out of it other than an obligation to support children he has no say about keeping.

Originally posted by Enkidu

Women, in general, hate men. And if they can figure out a way to fulfill their instinctual drive to procreate while having as little as possible to do with men (other than paying for it $$$$$ ), they will.

In my opinion that is the most incorrect and offensive statement I have ever read in my life. You tell that to the millions of single mothers who are raising children with no help at all because not only does the father refuse to see or acknowledge the child, but they would also rather be jobless and homeless on the street than to have to help support the child at all.

You tell that to the single mothers who were left by their husbands/boyfriends right after they announced they were pregnant.

Also, what about all the men who jump around from woman to woman. One of my friends fathers has 17 children, all from a different mother. Both man and woman are responsible for birth control.

It takes two to tango honey, it is rarely ever just one parties fault. There are very few women who hate men.

And you say that as if raising a child by yourself is fun and easy to do. Do you realize the how difficult it is to raise a child by yourself? You really think collecting child support is all that lucrative? I don't think so!

Originally posted by Enkidu
Women, in general, hate men. And if they can figure out a way to fulfill their instinctual drive to procreate while having as little as possible to do with men (other than paying for it $$$$$), they will.

Very few women actually hate men. Men have just as much of a drive to procreate as women do. There are actually a surprising number of women that want nothing to do with having children, just as there are a surprising number of men that want to have as many children as possible.

It's not surprising. As far as women are concerned, men are essentially brutal sex predators who run the world through intimidation and greater physical strength. Men have kept women in virtual slavery throughout civilization, taking advantage of their vulnerability during pregnancy and child-rearing.

While it's true that women have been oppressed through-out history, I'd hardly say that women, as a whole, veiw men as "brutal sex predators".

Ever since women were allowed to vote, they've been slowly voting in laws that allow them to more easily divorce, get half of what the male has worked hard to gain, and to continue to feed off the male for "child support" after the divorce. Men certainly have no such legal advantage.

The result has been a flood of women who squeeze out children like cats in heat - each kid from a different daddy - gain complete control of the children, and force the father(s) to foot the bill. None of these women would consider actually not having kids. The horror! But because of the legal structure, being a single mother has become a viable alternative.

Actually, ever since women were allowed to vote we've stopped putting up with men who want nothing out of life besides drinking and cheating. Men file for divorce as often as women do, and women work just as hard as men do. The difference is that men make more for doing the same work a woman does. As stated above me, it takes two to tango. A woman cannot get herself pregnant. It is biologically impossible. And I would hardly call single parenthood a "viable alternative" to anything.

The only thing men can do to regain any sort of advantage is to not let themselves be brainwashed into thinking that having kids is a "manly" thing to do, explore vasectomies, and stop getting married in the first place. No matter how much a woman may whine about getting married, a man has to realize that he gets nothing out of it other than an obligation to support children he has no say about keeping.

What does marriage have to do with children? It doesn't prevent people from having children if they are not married, and neither does getting married! If a man doesn't want children there is a simple way to prevent that: Don't Have Sex! "The horror!" But heaven forbid a man actually have to take responsiblity for the life he helped create. Heaven forbid a woman expect the father of her child to help her with supporting that child whether they are together or not. They day that all men use condoms and all women use birth control will be the day that there are no longer single mothers. Children are not the equivalant of the plague that women use to prevent a man from living a happy, carefree life. Children are the product of two people procreating. If men don't want to possibly have children with a certain woman then they need not have sex with her. It's very easy to not get that intimate with someone. I think that whoever gets custody of the children has every right to expect monetary support from the other parent, whether that parent is male or female does not matter.

Why is it that you think that children are only had by women to trap men? What on earth led you to that assumption? I'm asking because I want to know. I tried very hard before responding to find your logic, but I can't figure out how you came to your conclusions.

Ummm.... I take it you are (or were) married. Sounds like you've had a bad experience. Well, one thing I do agree with is the idea that many women feel as if they don't need a man to be around as a father, which is a personal choice, sometimes made without the fathers input, which I don't agree with. If the father wants to be a deadbeat, and the mother feels that no man is necessary, then more power to them.

To add to Rasobasi's comments, rape also occurs elsewhere in the animal kingdom.

Off the top of the dome, there's a fly (not sure on the species, but possibly scorpion fly) in which males have 3 options for reproduction. The biggest use the best option, killing prey and offering it to the female. The next size class offers the female nutrients by spitting out saliva for her to eat. The smallest guys use the least preferred option, forced copulation (rape, that is).

As for animal porn, you must be unaware of bestiality. But, I don't think dogs or horses actually produce this kinda porn...

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
There are very few women who hate men.

And you say that as if raising a child by yourself is fun and easy to do. Do you realize the how difficult it is to raise a child by yourself? You really think collecting child support is all that lucrative? I don't think so!

You don't think this reveals a solid hatred of men? Men are to blame, men did this and that, etc.
You're not listening to yourself. It's okay if you want to hate men.
Just be honest about it, so we'll know enough to get out of your way.

P.S. --
Oh, and just who is forcing all of these women to have children? Let me guess. All of the fathers were just wonderful, caring nurturing people who never showed a sign of trouble until the women got pregnant, then they all became miserable louses. Sure, that's plausible.

And by that time, of course, the women simply couldn't abort the pregnancies, because... oh, that would be a sin. Unlike shacking up with some loser. Yes, yes, I'm sure all of the single mothers out there are victims of us horrible men. All they ever wanted was to raise a wonderful child, and the father with absolutely no warning at all, pulled the rug out from under them.

The simple fact is that if there's a child out there, it's because the mother wanted it and purposely carried it to term. The same can't be said about what the father wants.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by Enkidu]

"they've been slowly voting in laws that allow them to more easily divorce, get half of what the male has worked hard to gain, and to continue to feed off the male for "child support" after the divorce. Men certainly have no such legal advantage. "

----------------------------------------------------

ya know, I find this a little offensive....

ya they get half of what the male has worked hard to gain...what's was the women doing while he was working? I can't answer this for all the women out there, but this is what I did while my husband worked hard for those 8-10 hours 5 or six days a week....

I was on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, if my son had an asthma attack or what ever happened, I didn't rest until all three boys were settled into bed, be that an hour later, or 24 hrs later...I changed their diapers, broke up their fights, taught them not to hang the cat upside down by it's tail, whatever....not only for those 8 - 10 hours that my husband worked, but every minute they were awake!! I also picked up not only after those three boys, but my husband also. I cooked just about every meal that they ate, washed every dish that they dirtied, did the laundry, cleaned the house, shoveled the driveway, and the list goes on and on. even now, with me working, my husband thinks that those 8 to 10 hours that he works is it....it's not over for me usually, until the dishes are done, the food is served. and his weekends, well, he has them off. It's my laundry time, and house cleaning time.....

the point is, and there are exceptions to this of course, but while the men are working hard, earning the money for all those nice things that they get to enjoy, the women are working hard taking care of them, maintaining them, preparing them, for their enjoyment!! you can blame wome for all of societies ills if you like, or women's lib, but I would be willing to wager, that this idea expressed right here, played a great deal in women wanting liberation to begin with. she worked, not only the eight or ten hours that he did, but much m ore, taking care of HIS KIDS, HIS HOUSE, preparing HIS FOOD, and cleaning up after HIS MESS!!! and still, too many times, her contribution isn't recognized!!! which often leads the men to assume, since they are working their tails off for them, they should at least DO AS HE SAYS!!!

as far as the child support goes, sorry, they're half your kids, you should have to pay at least half of what it costs to raise them.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by dawnstar]

Originally posted by Enkidu
You don't think this reveals a solid hatred of men? Men are to blame, men did this and that, etc.
You're not listening to yourself. It's okay if you want to hate men.
Just be honest about it, so we'll know enough to get out of your way.

P.S. --
Oh, and just who is forcing all of these women to have children? Let me guess. All of the fathers were just wonderful, caring nurturing people who never showed a sign of trouble until the women got pregnant, then they all became miserable louses. Sure, that's plausible.

And by that time, of course, the women simply couldn't abort the pregnancies, because... oh, that would be a sin. Unlike shacking up with some loser. Yes, yes, I'm sure all of the single mothers out there are victims of us horrible men. All they ever wanted was to raise a wonderful child, and the father with absolutely no warning at all, pulled the rug out from under them.

The simple fact is that if there's a child out there, it's because the mother wanted it and purposely carried it to term. The same can't be said about what the father wants.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by Enkidu]

I don't believe I made any man hating statements. I said it takes two to tango and usually in situations like this, there are two wrongs.

I have seen both ways. I have seen blood thirst women, like you speak of, who have kids, leave and take the father for all he is worth. Yes I think that is wrong too. But as you so eloquently put it...do you think those women were just wonderful and never showed any signs that they would do that?

Face it, when it comes to attraction, we are often blind and don't see the bad in someone until it's too late. Both genders, men and women.

Look, I don't know where you came to the conclusion that all women are heartless man haters but it is not true. But there are both men and women who do atrocious acts such as that.

The leading cause of death for pregnant women in North America is murder.

95% of men never miss a car payment but only 25% ever pay child support.

Originally posted by clearwater
The leading cause of death for pregnant women in North America is murder.

95% of men never miss a car payment but only 25% ever pay child support.

There is quite a bit of contradictory reports and findings which do not support any of these statements.

Imo one should back these rather bold quoted comments with at least some tangible data, which would help, because the conveyed information completely misses how your assumptions were drawn.



mg

Whew! What a topic. It's like somebody threw a match into a can of gasoline.

I have too many conflicting emotions to even comment on this topic. But imo, the men are the most responsible for dumping their responsibility. And before you yell at me, I am a man.

A lot of single mothers are hard working, and then there's the handful that lets welfare do all the work for them.

Originally posted by laiguana
A lot of single mothers are hard working, and then there's the handful that lets welfare do all the work for them.

I was on welfare for a mere 2 months, and I don't see how anyone can live off of that.
However I was so mad because I saw a lot of other single moms in there wearing expensive clothes and jewelry with their hair and nails freshly done, applying for welfare. Those women are also very skilled at manipulating the system into getting more than the regulations allow.

It's those women that are the reason people think so negativly about single mothers.

Originally posted by ImplementOfWar
Is there some kind of social breakdown? Conspiracy?

There is probably more a socio/cultural/subculture issue at work and less of an economical factor which appears in most posts in this thread. 22% of single parents raising children in the United States are men (a shade more than one in five), of which I am one.

However, according to the US Census pdf.(report issued 2005) 86% of child support providers were men, yet only 16% are women, despite the proportion of gender in single parents raising children. They have also found that 80% of men paid their court ordered child support whereas only 55% of women paid. So it is women which are more likely to be the “dead-beat” when ordered to pay and not men.

Furthermore, the GAO once found that 28% of men that do not pay child support are either dead or living with the mother of the children.

Originally posted by ImplementOfWar
99% of the last 100 women who I have known to have given birth are all SINGLE MOTHERS.

That number is not to far off from some areas of Sweden which are as high as 87%. But the nation average in Sweden is 50% of mothers have children out of wedlock.
Article

Originally posted by laiguana
A lot of single mothers are hard working, and then there's the handful that lets welfare do all the work for them.

It does make one wonder though what percentage of mothers are lying about not receiving child support so that they do not get their AFDC payments reduced among various other 'perks' which can/will be abused.


mg