Sadly, AboveTopSecret.com has again become infected with the dreaded disease of political side-taking and in-fighting. We're beginning to take new steps to manage this outbreak in an effort to ensure that our core domain, AboveTopSecret.com, remain focused on the primary mission of the collaborative discussion and speculation on conspiracy theories and alternative topics. This is the reason the logo is upside down.


Politics Is Important to Conspiracy Theories

Any student of conspiracy theory (especially for those few of us who have been doing so since before 9/11/2001) knows that politics and political scandal are very often the cornerstone of conspiracy theory speculation and research. However, for those with an unrelenting focus on politics, it seems impossible for them to understand that "conspiracy theorists" are constantly critical of all political administrations, agendas, and parties.

Indeed, a common and increasingly important theme among "conspiracy theorists" is the intensity of the divisive political atmosphere. This new wave of political intensity causes the followers of a given dogma to automatically blame "the other side" for all problems, and withhold credit for anything positive. This is the nature of the political disease we're now seeing here on ATS:
- Divisive politically-charged threads started in ATS forums
- Conspiracy threads being derailed with political blame-games and bickering
- Political name-calling and baiting
- Knee-jerk political assumptions of conspiracy speculation

In addition, nearly all of our staff is currently convinced there are a few "paid political posters" among us who are actively seeking to disrupt valid topics in an effort to benefit a political agenda.


Political Turmoil on ATS Diminishes Today

Make no mistake, there are no owners or staff of this site that feel political discussion is unimportant. Far from it. A sane and sober examination of the issues and agendas of all political parties is among the most important things that can be discussed in an open public forum. Quality discussions that cast a critical eye on politics and potential scandals/conspiracies will never be limited in any way on AboveTopSecret.com.

However, thread hijacking, name-calling, and political bickering that detracts from productive discussion will not be tolerated on AboveTopSecret.com, and will be encouraged to move to our political forum, Politics.AboveTopSecret.com. After all, this was the reason an alternative politics-only site was created.

Starting now, a new new policies will begin to help ensure we lessen the political problems on ATS:

Political Thread Starters: Any ATS thread that is started with an overtly obvious political agenda will be moved to PTS. This applies to all ATS forums.

Political Thread Hijacking: f a thread devolves to more than 2/3 of all posts are political bickering, it's a candidate for moving to PTS if the topic is not important to ATS categories. If it's an important conspiracy topic and should stay on ATS, there will be an obvious visual warning within the thread (no U2U's, so pay attention).

Political Hack "Exile": 3) Members who are "political hacks" who cannot hold themselves back from turning ATS-topics into political slug-fests will receive a 2-day timeout in which they are limited to PTS-only access. All of our staff will have the ability to apply these "political troll" warnings.

Politically Inspired ATS Banning: We hope that we never need to use this option, but anyone that receives a second "political troll" warning will be permanently limited to PTS-only access.


Sorry it's come to this...

In reality, we've discussed this issue in our moderator-only forum for months. We had hoped that some increased attention to the nature of the "political divide" and the futility of the intense divisiveness would have some effect. It seems that the political bickering has only intensified.

I hope that our members realize our intention to keep our core ATS board focused on conspiracy theory and alternative topics, and that we never need to use these new methods to weed out political bickering. But our experience indicates otherwise.


Thanks in advance for your efforts to help with these issues... and let's get that logo turned up the right way again.

Finally some positive change, I hope the moderators strictly enforce these guidelines as it will produce a better environment for all on ATS who wish to reasonably discuss.



[edit on 5-7-2006 by WestPoint23]

Politics? oh lordy Lordy save us all!


I agree it should be banned as its so boring to get reading a thread to find it descends into 'blue' versus 'reds' clinton versus bush ect ect ect.

But we are still allowed to look into them in a conspiracy theory way aren't we? because they all lie and hide the truth because it makes them all stinking rich and able to laugh at us poor masses huddled around candles for warmth.....

In addition, nearly all of our staff is currently convinced there are a few "paid political posters" among us who are actively seeking to disrupt valid topics in an effort to benefit a political agenda.

More than likely is. There are a few people, who do take a set Political Party line and they tow it so much it is rather worrying. In real life, it is hard to meet people who will hold any one political party near and dear and defend all of their actions, to their last dying breath without some form of involvement with them.

It's a good idea to move over posts which become less about the conspiracy and more about the politics. Never know, might see some posts in PTS for a change which will also be nice.

As touched on by my partner, SkepticOverlord, I can't help but cringe at the irony of political bating and fanaticism on a conspiracy theory site.

Springer...

Originally posted by Springer
As touched on by my partner, SkepticOverlord, I can't help but cringe at the irony of political bating and fanaticism on a conspiracy theory site.

Springer...

Yeah...but the Socialist Party of America pay me well.

Good luck with this.
It can be quite a grey area.
Especially when people read politics, into things that are not meant to be political.

I look forward to the results of this. And hope that there are reasonable methods for someone to plea their case, if there is a misunderstanding.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Sadly, AboveTopSecret.com has again become infected with the dreaded disease of political side-taking and in-fighting. We're beginning to take new steps to manage this outbreak in an effort to ensure that our core domain, AboveTopSecret.com, remain focused on the primary mission of the collaborative discussion and speculation on conspiracy theories and alternative topics. This is the reason the logo is upside down.

Simple solution:

86 the 9-11 conspiracy threads for what they truly are:

Anti-Bush/Evil Empire rubbish

Take the gasoline from the fire, and aim the forum towards real conspiracies. Not ones where none exist.

Alright, now we're cooking with fusion!

Though, I have seen the two thirds rule enacted early and often, spelling death of threads. Then again, it was Old Yeller time for some of them. Still, it seems that exile to PTS seems to be the knee jerk reaction, despite the number of threads of a political nature started based on pure, grade-A BS from a single source. What can be done about those?

DE

Originally posted by GSA

But we are still allowed to look into them in a conspiracy theory way aren't we? because they all lie and hide the truth because it makes them all stinking rich and able to laugh at us poor masses huddled around candles for warmth.....

Please read this paragraph in the original post again.

originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Make no mistake, there are no owners or staff of this site that feel political discussion is unimportant. Far from it. A sane and sober examination of the issues and agendas of all political parties is among the most important things that can be discussed in an open public forum. Quality discussions that cast a critical eye on politics and potential scandals/conspiracies will never be limited in any way on AboveTopSecret.com.

Springer...

[edit on 7-5-2006 by Springer]

Originally posted by Tha Troubleshoota
Simple solution:

86 the 9-11 conspiracy threads for what they truly are:

Anti-Bush/Evil Empire rubbish

Would this be an example of political baiting worthy of a time out?

Originally posted by Tha Troubleshoota
Take the gasoline from the fire, and aim the forum towards real conspiracies. Not ones where none exist.

So we now run the forums from your view point? Good idea.

Skeptic, take note.

This is brilliant and not a moment too soon. About time for real discussion without it being hijacked constantly. Thankyou ATS

Originally posted by Springer
As touched on by my partner, SkepticOverlord, I can't help but cringe at the irony of political bating and fanaticism on a conspiracy theory site.

Springer...

Oh, and why do I wave my hand so easily at this particular subject (and yes, I agree with you both...Springer and O.P.: THANK YOU for moving this stuff off-site):

here's the deal. I joined the military just out of high school and did so for the college money/usual reasons a long time ago. Just a month into the deal, I was recruited, along with four others, into the intelligence field. At the age of 19, I and my cohorts did extensive background checks and received Top Secret clearances.

I then proceded to do a number of smaller to more significant tasks in the intel realm for the next ten years. I submitted to two Counter Intelligence Polygraphs during this time.

Then I went out into "the world" and continued to work with things involving clearances...submitting to background checks, medical records screenings, physicals, etc. and so on. To many of you, the invasion of personal freedom and privacy would be a thing that you would not understand nor tolerate. I did so and do so willingly, because I live here and decided to spend most of my life in service to my country. So I guess that makes me somewhat patriotic. To many of you, that makes me a "neo-con", or the enemy. (this is directed at our U.S. members here)

So, that being said, that might explain why I could become very irate and upset when the obvious Left in the room decide to sling out their sentiments thinly disguised as conspiracy. It would further explain why I would and will continue to demand that we focus on the real enemy at hand right now, and that is the terrorists who have repeatedly attacked anyone who does not agree with their religion. It's that simple. 9/11 isn't some conspiracy, it's a wake up call to welcome us into a club that many other countries have been a member of for a long, long while. To think that a U.S. administration had anything to do with WTC or any such foolishness is an outright insult to those who died in those attacks.

It is these particular children of pure speculation that divide this nation during a time when we should be utterly focused on destroying the enemy of the entire civilized world.

But nothing I can say or do will convince many in this forum to see this. For many, they wish to make our attack on terrorists and terrorism into another Vietnam. The children of hippies merely repeating what they hear their parents saying...their parents enjoying the benefits of capitalism while speaking of the benefits of socialism and even communism.

Thus endeth my rant. Hopefully, this is a small insight into the mind of a right-wing nutjob, and what makes us so utterly angry at lemmings who will fall for any Michael Moore-ish scam and scandal that comes along.

Tha Troubleshoota, you very much come across as someone who can’t see the forest for the trees.

I’ll take an example of what you have said:

So, that being said, that might explain why I could become very irate and upset when the obvious Left in the room decide to sling out their sentiments thinly disguised as conspiracy. It would further explain why I would and will continue to demand that we focus on the real enemy at hand right now, and that is the terrorists who have repeatedly attacked anyone who does not agree with their religion. It's that simple. 9/11 isn't some conspiracy, it's a wake up call to welcome us into a club that many other countries have been a member of for a long, long while. To think that a U.S. administration had anything to do with WTC or any such foolishness is an outright insult to those who died in those attacks.

You have taken a conspiracy, such as 9/11. You have then decided to lump the “Left” into this group. However, there are people who believe in a 9/11 Conspiracy who are supporters of the Republican Party, who are more Right-Wing than anyone else. But instead of bothering to evaluate what they said, you lump them into a group with every other person. There are many people who are Left Wing and don’t believe there is a conspiracy.

Judge the evidence and what these people say.

Okay, Mods...I also apologize in advance.

Please take note of the following:

I rarely, if ever, post any sort of the thing that you've just seen from me. I'm normally quiet on this particular product of ATS and have made very few posts of which you speak (hijacking threads, etc).

Your recent thoughts merely elicited a final response to the sum total of what I have read and have been reading.

Take note of the 9/11 conspiracy link at the top center of the main page, and realize what that implies. Then read my last post and understand the outrage.

It would further explain why I would and will continue to demand that we focus on the real enemy at hand right now, and that is the terrorists who have repeatedly attacked anyone who does not agree with their religion. It's that simple.

Oh, you mean the US administration right?

9/11 isn't some conspiracy, it's a wake up call to welcome us into a club that many other countries have been a member of for a long, long while. To think that a U.S. administration had anything to do with WTC or any such foolishness is an outright insult to those who died in those attacks.

My opinion is that this is far from an insult but a duty to those people who died. What are you afraid of if it's all cr*p and not going to get 'us' anywhere?
This site is about discussing opinions and where possible providing evidence. How could this be a bad thing? Questions breed answers so how could you dissagree with this new policy? After all we are ALL in the same boat now.

[edit on 5-7-2006 by Xeros]

Originally posted by Tha Troubleshoota
Take note of the 9/11 conspiracy link at the top center of the main page, and realize what that implies. Then read my last post and understand the outrage.

It is a servey! THEY ARE ASKING IF PEOPLE DO OR DO NOT BELIEVE. They are not saying it is true.

You have taken a conspiracy, such as 9/11. You have then decided to lump the “Left” into this group. However, there are people who believe in a 9/11 Conspiracy who are supporters of the Republican Party, who are more Right-Wing than anyone else. But instead of bothering to evaluate what they said, you lump them into a group with every other person. There are many people who are Left Wing and don’t believe there is a conspiracy.

Judge the evidence and what these people say.

Then my post was somewhat misunderstood. I speak of two separate issues...one is of the 9/11 thing, and the other is just posts in general (normally either Iraq or 9/11 related) that seem to be trolls coming from the "Left" community at large.

That's all I was sayin' there. My original intent was merely to state why a "neo-kook" might bother posting a rebuttal or start when he/she sees some of this.

Just a peek inside the mind of a nut, I guess...

Again, I apologize for the rant.

And even here, on the thread that is to stop this very nonsense, is already they echo of this nonsense reverberating through. I am reading left-wing/right-wing already. I am reading that all 9/11 "nonsense" be stopped from being in an open discussion. To point something out, that can be found any many of my postings, I think very poorly of many governments regardless of what most would call "political party" affiliation. Bottom line for me is that we are in the same boat, there is no right or left, only distraction!

I still cannot believe that in this very thread, the same thing is already coming out!