"Stronger China poses no threat to other nations"

Originally posted by toolman
India has been buying time, but they will need to undergo their economic revolution before they can continue on their path. India's economy is still set in the partial caste system, which conflicts with economic progress. it will be forced soon enough.

Can you elaborate?
The only thing in which India is lacking behind China is a considerable lack of infrastructure and a lesser share of the world's manufacturing sector. India infact scores above China in the Banking sector, with a sound financial structure percolating right down to the grass roots level.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Also, yes America didn't find WMD's, and the government lied to everyone. But it really wasn't illegal considering there were other things Saddam did that broke the treaty he signed. Not that I am saying it was anything to go to war over, but, it wasn't necessarily "illegal".

Then what was the Iraqi invasion? Legal? Why? Because Saddam broke treaties he signed? Does that make the Iraqi invasion LEGAL?

And wow, people in the world thinks America is a larger threat to security than other countries? Maybe it is because the world's media (including America's) only report what AMERICA is doing wrong. Did ya ever think of that? I mean if people in Europe think America is a greater threat than China is then it MUST be true. It is funny though, when I talk to Europeans online about China, I talk about their organ harvesting, persecution of religions, and genocides in Tibet and they don't KNOW anything about that. Hmm something is odd about that

Hm... Do you know anything about the genocide of the native americans? The enslavement of millions of Africans? How long ago was it that the colored folks in America were actually treated as equals? The My Lai massacre? How about Guantánamo? The UN has condemned the imprisonment of people without charges and has called for the US to close it... There have been numerous reports of the use of torture.

Again, please don't be so blindsided by your own country when you start stabbing at other countries and calling them "threats." The rest of the world has their opinion - and that is that the US-led invasion in Iraq is more of a global threat to peace than the Iranian nuclear crisis AND that the United States is the second most negatively viewed nation on earth. There HAS GOT to be a reason for that don't ya think? Other than their media?

Of course you and toolman can cheerlead for the Chinese government all you want, and say "Those news stories are not true". Like I said, take it up with the Council on Foreign Relations, sheesh

I never said those news stories aren't true... but spamming negative views on China will only feed the West's ignorance ABOUT China. You'd be surprised to realize the things I have come through here on ATS (supposedly a forum to deny ignorance) about China. I have heard people stating that any negative mention of Communism will get you shot right ont he spot in China. I only want people to realize that the PRC is not "pure evil" as most Westerners will suggest and that those little stories you post up only feed the flame of ignorance the West has while completely being blind to the bigger picture.

Oh, and you want to talk about the Council of Foreign Relations? If I remember correctly, the UN and the rest of the world, has CONDEMNED the Iraq War, Guantanamo, the abuses in prisons, the use of torture... Funny how you ignore all that while using a Council of Foreign Relations to attack China.



[edit on 12-7-2006 by k4rupt]

If anyone really thinks a militarily strong China does not constitute a threat to other nations of the world and particularly in the area immediately surrounding China then either they are dellusional or deaf, dumb & blind, or all of the above. One does not modernize & strengthen ones military unless that is exactly what they intend to be perceived as--a threat. A threat to any country that might attack them and/or a threat to attack someone else--it gives them diplomatic leverage.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by Astronomer70]

Then what was the Iraqi invasion? Legal? Why? Because Saddam broke treaties he signed? Does that make the Iraqi invasion LEGAL?

You said it was illegal. I said it wasn't because Saddam did indeed break the treaty he singed. Remember I said it wasn't worth going to a war over, nor did I say the government did NOT lie to us. I just said it was not illegal as you put it.

Hm... Do you know anything about the genocide of the native americans? The enslavement of millions of Africans? How long ago was it that the colored folks in America were actually treated as equals? The My Lai massacre? How about Guantánamo? The UN has condemned the imprisonment of people without charges and has called for the US to close it... There have been numerous reports of the use of torture.

Is that the best you can do? Bring up things happening years ago? Let's go through each one.

Native Americans-happened in 18th-19th centuries. Europeans killed them first, and took their land first. So I guess that makes them a threat too. Come on, it is the 21st Century.
Enslavement of millions of Africans-The slave trade was started by EUROPEANS. And the Africans and Arabs captured and enslaved the Africans first. Americans bought them, and yes kept them as slaves (as did others). But that is over now, like 150 years over.
Black people treated equally-No, the black people in the south were not. That is unfortunate, but we changed that, and now they are, so what is your point? No other country had civil rights problems?
My Lai Massacre- Yes horrible, but in war. There are always soldiers that do bad things in war from every country. Do you think during world war 2 soldiers didn't do anything? Again it happened in the 60's.
Guantanamo- Well yes I don't agree with it. The torture that was confirmed was like "depriving sleep", "hitting". Did you know that the people there actually gained weight while they were there? And even so, again, the Supreme Court said they need to be treated under the Geneva Convention. It has been corrected.

Your examples are sorry ways at showing how America's actions in the way past and actions that were corrected make America into just as bad as a country as China is on the human rights scale. Sorrrrryyyy. When America puts people in camps, harvests their organs, sells them on the black market, and commits genocides in Mexico, THEN I will agree with you.

I never said those news stories aren't true... but spamming negative views on China will only feed the West's ignorance ABOUT China.

I am not spamming anything. The original post said China is not a threat, and I just said it was. There is quite a lot of evidence for it. And then toolman argued with me of course as always, and I showed that it isn't like all the people are jubilant about their government. So nobody is spamming, I was just supporting my argument. And then you and toolman say that it isn't true, the people are nice and happy and my opinion will change. When the statistics and facts change, THEN opinions will change.

You'd be surprised to realize the things I have come through here on ATS (supposedly a forum to deny ignorance) about China. I have heard people stating that any negative mention of Communism will get you shot right ont he spot in China.

Well I don't think THAT. But I definitely think that if you start protesting the government, they will kill you eventually. Like hmmm...the Falun Gong for example? Besides, anti-americanism is far more overwhelming here than anti-china so don't pin the "everyone is unjustly against china" pin on yet.

Oh, and you want to talk about the Council of Foreign Relations? If I remember correctly, the UN and the rest of the world, has CONDEMNED the Iraq War, Guantanamo, the abuses in prisons, the use of torture... Funny how you ignore all that while using a Council of Foreign Relations to attack China.

Nobody ignored that? The Council of Foreign Relations reports EVERYTHING. If you clearly look through all of ATS and political message boards, there is an overwhelmingly large amount of negative posts about the US, not about China. There needs to be more reports abot what China and Russia are doing, but the media only talks about what America is doing. That is why these Europeans say America is a larger threat. They know about American soldiers sticking poles up prisoners asses, but they don't know about Chinese forced sterilizations of Tibetans.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Guantanamo- Well yes I don't agree with it. The torture that was confirmed was like "depriving sleep", "hitting". Did you know that the people there actually gained weight while they were there? And even so, again, the Supreme Court said they need to be treated under the Geneva Convention. It has been corrected.

Corrected? Is that why Guantanamo is still up and running while the UN has demanded that the US shut it down? Corrected? I think not. It's not just Guantanamo, it's prisons in the United States in general.

UNITED NATIONS - Rights advocacy groups in the United States are calling for the United Nations to take note of the gross human rights violations being committed in their country.

A coalition of human and civil rights organizations Monday sent a 465-page report to a key United Nations committee, which details ongoing abuses of human rights across the United States.

The "shadow report" comes at a time when the Geneva-based UN Committee on Human Rights is about to complete its findings on human rights abuses in the United States.

Read this article that was recently posted here on ATS.
www.commondreams.org...

Your examples are sorry ways at showing how America's actions in the way past and actions that were corrected make America into just as bad as a country as China is on the human rights scale. Sorrrrryyyy. When America puts people in camps, harvests their organs, sells them on the black market, and commits genocides in Mexico, THEN I will agree with you.

First of all, those organss that were "harvested" were of consent from the prisoners who were executed for crimes such as murder and rape... There is no proof OTHERWISE, only SPECULATION. And here on ATS, we all know that assuming will eventually lead to ignorance. Second of all, China has recently BANNED the sales of organs. And thirdly, there are at least 2 million Chinese who need organs, but only 20,000 who actually recieve them yearly... MY GOD it is so evil for the Chinese gov't to look out for the wellfare of the other 1.88 million Chinese who are in dire need for organs.

I am not spamming anything. ...When the statistics and facts change, THEN opinions will change.

Well, you want to talk about statistics and facts? I have stated that the world believes that the US invasion of Iraq was the biggest threat to global peace/security and that the US is the second most negatively viewed nation on earth. Respond to this before you go on bashing China as a "threat" while the US is a sun-shine nation under the rainbow.

That is why these Europeans say America is a larger threat. They know about American soldiers sticking poles up prisoners asses, but they don't know about Chinese forced sterilizations of Tibetans.

Again, blaming the media for the negativity Americans have around the world?
If you don't know, China treats it's ethnic minorities BETTER than Han Chinese. First of all, ethnic minorities have a right to produce more than one child while Han Chinese do not. EVEN THE DA LAI LAMA has stated that Tibet should remain with China. He has dropped his call for independence and is pursuing more autonomy. He acknowledges that even though "Tibet is full of spirituality, spirituality will not make our stomaches full" and he thanks the Chinese gov't for brining electricity, running water, and civilization to his people. Before you try to make it seem as if EVER Tibetan is being "forced sterilized" go read up on what the Da Lai Lama has stated... go visit Tibet right now... Again, I think your opinions will change.




[edit on 14-7-2006 by k4rupt]