Ahem... Question.. Do you guys believe in A devil?

Back after a very very very longtime.... anyway that's not the point... The question for you fellow ATSers..... Do you actually believe in a Demonic creature as depicted in pop culture, as a mythical being residing in a Hot place? With Fork tongue, and nflaming red eyes... and horns in his heads, does this creature actually exist?

I believe that it is possible for a being of extreme evil to be capable of extreme good, in the same way that a being of extreme good is capable of extreme evil of equal magnitude.

If god exists and God is a Good being in the scence that much of modern religion depicts God, then he would have to be capable of extreme evil if God had selfawareness of Gods goodness. The "Wrath of God" seems not to be a nice concept and therefore by the same token I believe that it would also be possible in much of modern belief that any being perceived of perveying extreme evil would haveto be capable of incredible goodness if self aware of how evil it actually was. Lucifer aparently means Lightbearer and I have read that Lucifer was the Anointed Cherub. God had given Satan a certain amount of power and authority. But he perverted that power. Lucifer wanted to exalt himself above God... rather than "just" being the Angel of God. Does this make him Evil? in gods eyes, apparently so but to me it seems like evangelical beauracracy.. this definition of lucifer does not show him to be evil, just "competitive".

Originally posted by crusader
Back after a very very very longtime.... anyway that's not the point... The question for you fellow ATSers..... Do you actually believe in a Demonic creature as depicted in pop culture, as a mythical being residing in a Hot place? With Fork tongue, and nflaming red eyes... and horns in his heads, does this creature actually exist?

satan does not reside in hell. He has access to the earth and the 2nd heaven. The forked tongue thing is gibberish physically. It has spiritual implications. As far as the other characteristics they are not mentioned in the Bible. satan was very beautiful, but sin deteriorates things, so his beauty now has probably been tarnished to some degree.

But exceuse..... Is satan a being? like a Spirit? Or ???

Originally posted by crusader
But exceuse..... Is satan a being? like a Spirit? Or ???

A fallen angel.

Originally posted by crusader
Back after a very very very longtime.... anyway that's not the point... The question for you fellow ATSers..... Do you actually believe in a Demonic creature as depicted in pop culture, as a mythical being residing in a Hot place? With Fork tongue, and nflaming red eyes... and horns in his heads, does this creature actually exist?

I guess in so many word's, you are asking what Satan would possibly look like? I had to do some intensive researching to find anyhting that deals with his physical appearance, and the only thing that came close was this website "What Does Satan Look Like?", so here you go dbrandt, hope this help's out some.

"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is not strange if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness." (2 Corinthians 11:13-15 RSV)

Source W/ explanations:
www.keyway.ca...

I don't think so. I beleive in evil beings. If there is he is running the churches, cuz they are the devil in my mind. The bible is a bunch of lies. No scientific facts here, just the plain common sense in my brain. Fear tactics and guilt. People are getting smarter though. This is my opinion of course, and I am not saying the people who beleive in it are stupid, they have that right.

Just the whole story of it is dumb, it totally makes it out where God will win in the end and you better obey or you will burn in the lake of fire. I would rather burn in the lake of fire than be some person afraid of every little thing that I might do that could be a sin. If you wouldn't be able to have any fun in heaven anyway, based off of all the sins.

God loves me anyway cuz I'm a good person. If there is a devil, he is just doing God's dirty work. But there isn't one, just the one in you mind full of fears that have been created by the churches. The truth will be revealed soon and you will know it's the aliens running the show. The devil is the evil aliens that feed off our fear.

Good topic Crusader, I have to think about it. Hmmmm...scratches head.

I think I do believe in the devil in some abstract sense, but I am not sure if s/he exists or not in a real sense. And, I really am super tempted to believe in the notion of an Antichrist version of Satan, more than I am of the Red Devil type Satan.

I had a dream that was similar to the 'Temptation of Christ'. I was in New York City and I walked into this brick apartment building and then into an apartment at the top, that was drab at first, and then as I walked further in the floors changed to black and white tiles and started moving in random waves fluidly as if they were made of water, and there was a crystal chandlier and it started swinging. And the walls turned into a moon blue type color. Then there was this cool guy with a Fedora type hat on, and he was riding one of the tile waves, and he said 'Hello...I'm Satan, come with me and then a big wave picked us both up and we were up on the roof of the building.

And the view changed from being a boring view of other brownstones, to a breathtaking, panoramic view of the most awesome buildings and structures in the world. And then Satan said "Follow me and all of this will be yours". And then he showed me ships and bridges and this big white building out in the middle of a lake that you had to take a boat to get to. And the glowing white building was geometric with crystalline type like angles, and really awesome with water shooting out of the top of it in different directions, like a fireboat.

So, to have that dream I guess subconsciously I do believe in the devil, and how tempting he is also. It's probably because I have been brainwashed by the church as Raven mentioned. Actually, I think most of what happens to us is just the way nature works, and there is no real good or evil to it, no black or white, its just gray...it's just how it is. And, what are we? Are we more like animals, or are we more like pre-wired computers? Are we responsible for our own destinies? Or, has everything been pre-decided by Fate and a Higher Being?

I know too, that whenever I am trying really hard to be a 'good' person that is when I have the worst things happen to me, usually things caused by evil people, or else a series of accidents. Like someone/something is trying to get me to have a negative outlook and give up.

~ Deep

............................................. deep!

glad to see the truth is finally getting out there. Correction, it was allready out there, I'm just starting to see it more clearly.

[edit on 5-7-2006 by kneejo]

Good and evil are but opinions, subjective judgements, based upon someones personal moral/belief system. What is good for you doesn't have to be so for the person next to you.

I do not believe in Satan as a true entity. This is due to the origin of Satan. A construct made by christianity to give Sin (also their own made construct) a face. A face that would speak to peoples imaginations as something you should stay away from. A face taken from ancient belief systems with mild alterations. A face used for propagandic means to keep ignorant people coming back to church. Nowhere in the teachings present in Hebrew is there any mention of a being called Ha STN. However there is a lore in Hebrew that talks about Samael, Leviathan (Lilith), Azatoth joining together in order to form The Beast. If I believe in Satan it would be as a psychological construct of the ego.

I do however belief in Lucifer, The Lightbringer and Fallen Angel, but I do not experience him as an evil and chaotic being such as certain belief systems choose to depict him. Instead I see him as the head figure of the Right Hand Path of spirituality. A Noble and free angel that stands up for his beliefs instead of the (arch)angels which are nothing more then automatons who simply follow the task that "god" gives them to do. Human Beings are much better then angels in that regard. We got free will and a hell of a lot potential compared to angels.

I also believe in Daemons. Daemons as in Latin for free spirits, Daimon in Greek. This is deu to my personal experiences even though a lot of people say they are but outward manifestations of the psyche. But the rituals can be performed in more then one way. One way is indeed the cause for outward projections and others you truly summon and work with Daemons.

In the sense of Demons, the biblical sense...I only see those as figments of imagination and not real beings. We all have our own demons that we got to deal with in order to grow stronger. These type of demons are just as Satan...ways to indoctrinate people with idiotic teachings.

I also believe in true "negative" entities. But as said in the opening lines Good and Bad are subjective and differ per individual. So I define negative as something I do not feel comfortable with whether this may be an archangel, a demon, satan, god himself, some individual on the street...its all the same. And when I experience something "negative" I simply dissacosiate myself with it or them no matter who the hell they think they are.

[edit on 5-7-2006 by Enyalius]

In diffrent cultures throughout the world, there are diffrent names and diffrent allegories, pertaining to the devil, from Seth, in Ancient Egyptian lore, to Satan, in Judeao Christian belief. Isn't canny? Seth? Satan? The name sounds similar? Yet unique as it apply to the one evil entity.. Any thoughts?

Originally posted by crusader
Isn't canny? Seth? Satan? The name sounds similar? Yet unique as it apply to the one evil entity

Not really. Bat and Bat sound the same and are spelled exactly the same. Yet one is a living animal that flies around eating bugs, and the other is a nonliving object that you hit a ball with.

Seth is not satan and satan is not Seth.

[edit on 5-7-2006 by dbrandt]

Personally, I believe in all manner of beings, terrestrial, cosmic and otherwise.
However, is there a straight-up Prince of Darkness?
I doubt it.
Are there incredibly powerful (beyond our imagination) malevalent beings?
Of that, I am sure.

well yes, there's common agreement, there are evil beings that exist on the terrestial plane, spiritual,. and astral plane. But as the judeo Christian belief, that there's one mighty being that this great being , THE DEVIL, that go around to TEMPt people, cause Disasters, etc, and everything evil is associated to him and his imps... What do u all think?

Maybe our minds play tricks on us, and also Humans are naturally evil as well by theirselves.?

I'd like to think that humans are not inherently evil.
If we were, we'd already have destroyed each other; not to mention that we would be unable to enter into such debates without a fight breaking out (although, on this site, I've seen it come close...)
I personally have tremendous faith in humans and tremendous hope for our future.
I really think that good and evil are very primative concepts that one binds themself too, and in doing so, views the world in such terms.
I'm trying (it is very difficult, but, in my opinion very worth it) to stray away from the idea that there is a good/evil dichotomy.
I think that is the true path (at least, for me).
But, I'm just one guy...

No. I think that much ancient and/or biblical lore is parable. The other possibility, no probability, is that the concept of a devil is simply a primitive culture's attempt to explain something - why there are bad things in the world - that they don't really understand.

Here's an example that will fit right in here at BTS: in the ancient world, light and heat was produced basically by fire. And the fastest vehicle that people rode around in was a chariot. So, what else would the ancients have called a UFO that went fast, carried beings and glowed with bright lights?

A "fiery chariot" of course!

[edit on 7/7/2006 by centurion1211]

I personally, believe that when the original sin took place (Garden of Eden), and evil entered the world, the entity of Satan began. I believe this "Satan" is a conglomeration of all evil. The epitome of all that is bad. It is not one particular being, as the Bible and other historical texts describe people as being devil-ish, or even inhabited with "devils"....

We as humans have a tendancy to personify things ...think Uncle Sam...in that a feeling is represented with a character. It is easier to project feelings with a direct object, like metaphors....

Now this in no way means that I doubt the existence of a terrible place, or eternal damnation for those that spread evil and do "Satan's work"....but I take comfort in knowing that none of us are perfect, and can always be forgiven....

My advice is like the non-believer a few spots up said...Live a good life for yourself and towards others, and you are ok....once you let evil in, it is hard to escape...I don't judge anyone for their personal opinions on our existence...but I do encourage love and caring towards your fellow humans...It is hard sometimes, but I do believe it is better to be passive, rather than aggressive....

As I have said before, George Lucas is a genius...

Yoda: “Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.”......

All this negativity leads to evil....go with the flow....hehe...let the Force flow through you...

[edit on 7-7-2006 by JSquared]

If under true knowdge or belief or fear or combinatin of all three a person or persons' can manifest things if a set of events were to happen I imagine such things could manifest. I would only guess the farther people have a lack of understanding can only go to empower such things under conditions of exposure of anything beyond physics and obvious lack of faith/belief and will.

I don't believe in Satan. In my opinion, you would have to believe in the Christian Bible to believe in Satan - He is a Christian creation. Since I am not a Christian, I can say, "There is no Satan."

However, if you are a Christian and you put your faith in the Christian Bible as the "Word of God," then how can you not believe in Satan? The Christian Bible talks all about him, it's right there in black and white. If you are a Christian, you had better know something about Satan and his temptations - your eternal soul is at stake.

I believe that the answer to crusader's question really hinges upon this:

Are you a Christian? or Do you believe that the Christian Bible is the word of God?

Anyone who answers yes to either of the above questions would most likely also say that they believe in Satan. If they didn't, I would probably call that person a hypocrite.

Anyone who has no part in Christianity or the Christian Bible would also have no need to believe in Satan. In my way of thinking, Satan and Christianity are a package deal.

Originally posted by wellwhatnow
Since I am not a Christian

However, if you are a Christian and you put your faith in the Christian Bible as the "Word of God," then how can you not believe in Satan? The Christian Bible talks all about him, it's right there in black and white. If you are a Christian, you had better know something about Satan and his temptations - your eternal soul is at stake.

This is truly amazing(in a good way) to me.

That someone who isn't a christian knows this and understands the connection. That if you are a christian, then you need to believe the Bible. Not just parts, of it but all of it.

Bravo!!!!!!!!

Mark 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.