Okay, here goes.......................a criticism

I finally joined this board at the end of April after browsing it for about a year, anticipating some discussions about my favourite topics with some like-minded folk.

Inevitably, there are going to be people who have been here for longer, with a fuller knowledge of the ins and outs of life on a discussion forum- For example, the best place to post a thread, topics that have been discussed at length previously, using the search function etc.

Also, there are undoubtedly going to be more well-educated, well informed people currently members of ATS. People who have studied at length various conspiracies, and consider themselves somewhat authorities on the subject.

And then there are people like me- an average Gal, new to the board, into conspiracies, but not written any great dissertations or ground breaking contributions- and doesn't particularly care to either.

Please can we lose a bit of the hierarchal snobbery? Members who have been around for longer get away with all kinds of thread topics and comments - not necessarily from Mods, but from other, older members.

And the out and out derision a person -a newbie- gets when posting an old topic, or one that has been previously pooh-poohed, is frankly rude.

And may I apologise in advance to all those smashing their fists down onto their keyboards in rage if this is a topic already been covered.

I'm afraid 'rude' is part of the deal. In any group of people as big as the membership here on ATS, there will be those who represent all walks of life and all personalities. But please realize that for every rude veteran, there are probably at least 5 who are really nice.

My advice is to not let the rude ones get you down. Brush it off and carry on.

The interactions in a group this size cannot be controlled and I'm not sure they should be, beyond complying with the T&C. I've been on boards where the rudeness is controlled and it's totally boring and not fun (for me).

Get involved. Read and respond to topics and when these rude events happen, just let it slide off and move on. Don't let others' behavior dictate your actions.

Also, the search function is fairly helpful in determining whether or not a topic has been discussed.

I understand where you're coming from, Delta, I lurked here for a long time before I became a member, so I had somewhat of an idea of what was already posted. That left me at a bit of an advantage, and I was also very familiar with the search features. There are times I do in fact get frustrated, but then I remember, "it's only ATS!" Then I go away from the computer, come back, and it isn't a big deal anymore. Just like with some of the Hurricane Katrina threads, I came in with the feeling that since I was here for it and the aftermath, that I was the pro on the subject. Not so. There were others that had the opportunity to be much further away and were allowed the priviledge of detaching the emotion that I couldn't detach and look at the aspects of the situation. It got me quite angry for a while, and that's when I realized that it was my time to back off. It just happened to mostly fall upon the lines of longer term members who had more time to look at the situation. The heirarchy in that way worked.

Shazam, you're lucky you're even getting a comment from me. Your remarks were nothing more in my opinion than rude and inflammatory. I also question why you would want to be here if we are nothing "but losers that found a club where we could be accepted?" Please show more respect, because what you said shows exactly why older members would have a hard time tolerating some silliness from new members.

Let's be honest here: deal with it.

If you come onto any website, that includes a forum and has thousands of members you will find a few of them to be rude. That is how it goes. If they are not breaking the Terms and Conditions, however you find it so hard to still deal with them use the ignore function - it is there for a reason.

Honestly, it isn't hard for you to just look at text upon a screen as text upon a screen. If you are unwilling to search through passed topics, you will find out that people are going to point out it has been covered. The search function is now clearly displayed and it is much easier to use than it ever has been.

Furthermore, the longer someone has been here the more respect [and hate] they'll get from certain groups. That's how it goes in almost all forums, groups, etc. They have proven their worth and it is wrong to be expected to be taken as seriously as everyone else and it is also unfair on those members. If people call you out, they call your bluff on something show them the evidence. If you are unable to it is not their fault they know more and shouldn't be punished for being educated.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Also, the search function is fairly helpful in determining whether or not a topic has been discussed.

It took me about a week to notice the search function on the board,and sometimes there are that many to sift through you just can't be bothered!

I appreciate your comments though, sometimes I feel like ATS is one big conspiracy, but then I realise it's just me being para again

Originall posted by niteboy82i
t just happened to mostly fall upon the lines of longer term members who had more time to look at the situation. The heirarchy in that way worked.

I agree, niteboy, but at the same time - I demand respect, Godammit!!

Hi Welcome to ATS

there are a lot of really nice helpful people here and then there are some who are egg heads. Just be a little patient; it takes a little while to click with others.

Those people who are rude...just ignore them...
there is a thread adopt a new member, I was adopted and it was really helpful with tech issues.

It is good having a point system, earning some credibility, I am sure you are worth it already but I think the system just prevents a lot of airheads. But persist cos it is worth it.

If you need any help or have issue then feel free to u2u me or ask to be adopted in the thread.

I wouldnt be that informative as an adopted parent cos I havent been here that long myself and I am not on that much.

cheers

Originally posted by ShazamsChampion
I fell as if I won the lottery.

This was previously banned member "mwm1331" who was banned for abusive and disruptive behavior.

Reminder from the Terms & Conditions

8) Right of Community Management This is a privately owned discussion board community. The Owners and senior moderator staff reserve the right to take action against any member who is deemed to be devoted purely to disruption, whose actions represent behavior contrary to community building, or whose content is contrary to the core ideals of AboveTopSecret.com. This action may include complete banning of your username and IP address. The owners of AboveTopSecret.com, LLP reserve the right to eliminate or edit any content deemed inappropriate for the discussion boards, news network or any affiliated sites.

While we generally don't care if previously banned members return and are never noticed, it's clear this person returned to be abusive once again.

Originally posted by Delta Alter
It took me about a week to notice the search function on the board,and sometimes there are that many to sift through you just can't be bothered!

I'm also available to U2U for help. I have a lot of experience with the search function and would be glad to help you narrow down a search. If I can't help, I can probably find someone who can, so don't hesitate to U2U me.

Oh, and sometimes, really rude members get banned.

Forget the search function.......I can't find anything with it....even when I KNOW it's there!! Maybe it's just ME, but I like the tags approach much better. Browse the big list, or seach for topics with the alphabetic lists.......start here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is the universal rhetorical "crticism" of forum newbies made regarding the oldies since the begining of time or the internet. Whichever came first.

Hi Delta,
I wouldn't worry about the older members. Honestly, if you have something beneficial to contribute, something that is either insightful, provides new knowledge, or even poses an interesting question, people are going to pay attention to what you have to say. Granted, there is that "status bar" in varying shades of color, as well as the points system to denote your supposed standing, but really, what is it all for? We come together at ATS to share knowledge, explore that which is secret, and most importantly, to deny the ignorance of those who have been left in the dark for far too long. Those members here who seem to have a "holier than thou" attitude, while they may be irritating at times, have most likely earned it. If you notice, they more often than not are making very valid points, regardless of how snobby it may come across. As I said, you shouldn't worry about people such as this. If your posts have merit, they will see it and you will gain the respect I'm sure you deserve. The only advice I can give is to have fun and don't hesitate to look around and ask questions. I think you'll find that even the snobby older members won't begrudge you an answer, even if it seems a relatively simple question to them. Their problems usually lie in the threads and posts where "newbies" making completely unfounded, unsupported statements and ply them off as fact. So long as you aren't doing this, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Keep in mind as you take in the dispositions of the various members here, most especially those who have been here awhile---A master of any trade was once just a lowly apprentice.

If you don't like someone's attitude, ignore them. Chances are you aren't the only one that thinks they are being a prat. And we've all been through the same thing (at least I have). The very first thread I posted on ATS resulted in me getting reamed out by a very prominent ATS member. While I may respect that members work, I would never consider interacting with them again. It was so unpleasant and uncalled for that it has forever altered my opinion of them, and my confidence in their ability to be objective.

Originally posted by EdenKaia
Those members here who seem to have a "holier than thou" attitude, while they may be irritating at times, have most likely earned it.

Nobody is entitled to a 'holier-than-thou' attitude. Nobody. If they feel the need to make themselves feel better at the expense of others, that is a true measure of their character.

Oh, and for searching - if the ATS one drives you nuts (it can be frustrating) just google it and add ATS to your search string. That usually works.

Politeness Counts

Simon has written about this:

ABOUT ATS: General ATS discussion etiquette

I think that post makes it plain enough what Simon thinks about rudeness directed toward new members.

I share that sentiment, and personally despise rudeness in the forums, because it degrades the quality of the entire board and can drive away good members.

It almost drove me away, but ultimately I decided to stay, and I'm glad I did.

For whatever reason, with the exception of the general baseline which we should all strive to lower, rudeness on ATS tends to be somewhat seasonal, and typically increases in the summer and around the times of national elections -- mainly in the U.S.

The Summer Of Shove

Myself and other members have observed an apparently seasonal upswing in rudeness on ATS recently, and I'm sure most of us would like to see civility prevail.

Thus the staff will -- as always -- seek to ensure that the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use are enforced, while maintaining our high standards for fairness toward and understanding of our membership.

But we can't do it alone. We can't stop members from posting insults, we can only act after they have made them -- and often only after other members have responded with insults and made things even worse.

So we need your help, and the help of all members.

The High Road

Try to enjoy what ATS has to offer, and not let a few miscreants ruin your day.

Resist the temptation to respond to insults with more insults. All that does is drag you into the mud and place you at risk for disciplinary action for your own T&C violations.

Rather, I recommend taking the high road. Be polite and courteous, even when confronted by a slobbering idiot. Report T&C violations, and we'll investigate them.

Please don't be frustrated if your complaint may not result in ruthless retaliation by the staff. Often we work things out with members via U2U, and often members who may seem like jerks in the forums are just having a bad day, didn't understand what ATS is about or forgot themselves.

Don't worry, members who make a point of habitually violating the T&C get what's coming to them eventually.

Until that happens, however, we really do try whatever we can to bring troubled members around.

To the extent you can help us out by staying cool, we very much appreciate it!





P.S. Regarding the infinitely ignorant practice of deriding new members...

Whenever I see it, I am reminded of this classic Internet meme:



A picture is worth a thousand words.

The following quote is from the "ATS Freshman's Forum- 101"

The fact you are aware and interested enough in this world we live in to join AboveTopSecret.com indicates you are completely "qualified" to participate here.

You can see the whole post here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The whole idea of "points, the post bar (it is not a "status bar")" being some gage to the "prestige" any member has is false. The points are nothing but a recognition of activity.

Activity, NOT "quality" or intelligence or any thing else. You can usually assume that someone with lots of points is a very good member because it takes lots of activity (now that the "tagging scheme" has been shut down) to gain lots of points. People who come to ATS for the reasons we're here will always be welcomed. It's pretty simple, act like a grown up, be polite and anything in the world you want to discuss (within the limits of the TAC) with the world is here for you... that's IT.

The "post bar" is nothing more than an easy way to see how many posts anyone Member has made on ATS. Put your cursor over it and a number appears, that number equals the number of posts that Member has made. The color changes with applauds from staff, I suppose you could call that some sort of "status", but I assure you the Members who get applauded deserve them.

HUMAN BEINGS are what we are interacting with here, I've never met a perfect one yet. We are all going to have "bad days" or get annoyed over something, it's just the way we are. When you enter a venue with 63,000+ other people participating in it with you, you are going see a little bit of everything including those who have little patience for repeats.

No biggy, don't let it get to you, just keep on enjoying the site and learn everyday people aren't going to change so there's not much reason to fret over it.

Springer...

Quite true to what Springer has said...wise words there ,Springer!

I have been in other forums, and what they have done is, let members give their points to other members whom they think is lacking,just to start them off.

HUMAN BEINGS are what we are interacting with here, I've never met a perfect one yet. We are all going to have "bad days" or get annoyed over something, it's just the way we are.

helen

I know your feeling on this topic. Funny how some of us have around the Internet before Al Gore "invented" it (old time telnet/MUX user here) are still looked on as newbs or Noobs or w/e because our presence is new to their section of the digital world. Like everyone else has/will say, just let it roll off like water on a duck's back.

As for why I joined up here is because they do a fairly good job of cleaning up messes that other people seem to enjoy making. That for me is quite telling and is a welcomed breath of (old style) fresh air.

As far as post counts and whatnot serving as a guide to what is and what is not shine from shinola, I would have to say that anyone using such a ruler has no measure of what merits fact from fiction.

Myself, I do not greatly care to inform the unwashed masses but to bring my view, counterpoint or information to those that care to read and consider it and have the right to give their opinion on either my words or the words of others. If I searched for was hollow, single points of view and acceptance of the whole I would stick with discussion boards sponsered by mainstream media outlets...or just hang out at The Gap

Either way, have fun if it makes you happy and enjoy yourself here. No one enjoys the mundane task of weeding, but everyone likes the finished flower garden.

(edit for fat fingered typing)

[edit on 5-7-2006 by Ahabstar]

To All Those Who Replied To Delta's Thread

(bows down) A humble Thank You for your encouraging remarks!

Due to some of the experiences I have had on here, I expected to get an out-and-out Cyber Bashing!

originally posted by Ahabstar Either way, have fun if it makes you happy and enjoy yourself here. No one enjoys the mundane task of weeding, but everyone likes the finished flower garden.

It's more of a vast, swamp-like rainforest here, but I love the sentiment