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Propulsion Systems

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posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 02:56 PM
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Ok i am a new member to this site, but their is a question i was hoping someone could answer, it has to do with the propulsions systems a alien would use to travel through space. Since Einstein showed us that traveling above the speed of light is a imposiblity according to the laws of physics, because your mass would become infinitely large( i hope thats right), i was wondering about other types of propulsion systems used by aliens, if their are any.
Traveling in space at the speed of light can still lead to very long trips because of size, but is it possible for them to warp space and time. This is a theory i had heard about and read a little about, where u bend physical space and time to move the universe around your ship, without acctually moving your vessel. This would make for easy maintence on a vessel and needless to say extremely short trips. But this is where i ran into a problem, if you warp space and time, would you not be already defying the laws of physics(assuming this is even possible).

just wondering if someone could elaborate or if it is even possible, or if anyone has anyother methods to for advanced propulsion systems that i had not mentioned.
Thanx




posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by Dave_Bowman
just wondering if someone could elaborate or if it is even possible, or if anyone has anyother methods to for advanced propulsion systems that i had not mentioned.

Most folks (aside from a few jealous detractors) agree that Einstein was a pretty smart dude, and getting around the limitations imposed by his Special Relativity theory is not easy.

But what it basically boils down to is you have to figure out how to modify either yourself or spacetime in such a way that relativity isn't an issue. So you need to:

* generate close to infinite power
* figure out a way to neutralize your mass (at least in this space)
* bend space to reduce the distance you have to travel
* move outside of time (although you still have to cover the distance)
* move through something other than 4-D spacetime
(another dimension or virtual space)
* manipulate all the material in your ship to coherently "tunnel"
(probability drive, per Douglas Adams)
* something else unknown at this time.

All of these things would seem to require a huge generation of power, though, at least as we understand it now. There may, however, be some way to "tickle" a lot of power out of a different or virtual dimension that could do the trick. Don't know.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 09:19 PM
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Of course, Einstein never was a fan of quantum mechanics, hehe...

It seems that any interstellar traveller would need one of two things....
1. a lot of patience and multiple generations
or
2. a method of warping time/space much like gravity does around objects of large mass.

I'm personally in favor of # 2. As posted above, it seems the most logical conclusion, even though we haven't figured it out yet. Heck, 100 years ago, nobody had any idea a computer would be possible either. Hell, 20 years ago, I would have said you were nuts if you suggested I'd be carrying around a phone in my pocket.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 09:39 PM
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Propulsion systems:

ATOMIC..... probably on the way. Problems is of course, collisions and accidents.
PLASMA... Cannot find raw material that can harness the heat. Titanium will not suffice.

Now if we look at space travel and the future...then we will agree that Rail Guns will be the only way to explore in the future. Satellites, probes will no longer be launched by rockets...hydrogen/oxygen fuel . Too much fire and smoke !



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 10:19 PM
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Check out the "onion drive". I find it the more plausable explanation.

www.stargate-chronicles.com...



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:18 AM
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"Ok i am a new member to this site, but their is a question i was hoping someone could answer, it has to do with the propulsions systems a alien would use to travel through space. Since Einstein showed us that traveling above the speed of light is a imposiblity according to the laws of physics, because your mass would become infinitely large( i hope thats right), i was wondering about other types of propulsion systems used by aliens, if their are any.
Traveling in space at the speed of light can still lead to very long trips because of size, but is it possible for them to warp space and time. This is a theory i had heard about and read a little about, where u bend physical space and time to move the universe around your ship, without acctually moving your vessel. This would make for easy maintence on a vessel and needless to say extremely short trips. But this is where i ran into a problem, if you warp space and time, would you not be already defying the laws of physics(assuming this is even possible)."

No one said you have to break the laws of physics but instead avoid them all together....

Warp drive is unfortunatly to impractical since it requires you to move the entire universe. Now to do this it would require such massive amounts of power that it would simply not be feasable. I once heard warp would require a power source that of 10 billion suns at least an I think that is a huge understatement for the ammount required. Also warp drive does not defy the laws of physics since it requires for you not only to move the universe but it requires you to shrink it in front of and expand it behind you. You would not be travelling faster then light and neither would the universe you are siply shrinking moving and re-expanding the universe.

Now hyperdrive is closer then what people think and may be on the way soon I also know that a paper was written on the subject and won the nuclear and future flight award from he American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. the military and Sandia National labs are interested in giving a hyperdrive craft a test.
www.newscientist.com...

how hyper drive works is a jump to a dimension called hyperspace where everything :
A: space is much shorter (short cut)
B: everything moves faster then light.

Either way it theoretically requires much less power then warp drive and though only theoretical still very plausable.

I know people mention thing like building a teleportation or stargate device but that is also impractical unless you can travel to a certain location by other means as well to place another device to receive and reassemble the object or person in question.

In regards to the plasma post it would be much better to use plasma to generate solid sheilds using cool plasma. Also Since diamond is compressed carbon it could withstand the heat of plasma.

"20 years ago, I would have said you were nuts if you suggested I'd be carrying around a phone in my pocket."
They had cell phones 20 years ago they just looked like bricks...


hyperdrive is clearly the most logical choice for putting the stars in reach.



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:34 AM
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I agree with what you said Doctor. You move the universe. The ship is never moving at all. I like the battlestar galactica version of the warp "jump". Picture the universe as a giant sphere made of jelly. The universe will do a dimple effect and leave you off at your destination life a giant whirlpool in the ocean.



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 04:36 AM
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In the terms of light speed I personally think it is not possible. But getting close is. I think scientists propelled an object to nearly light speed in a giant magnetron thing underground somewhere. I don’t know all the facts but I think it is under a city somewhere and it is a massive circular track powered by electron magnets. Although I don’t know how they would manage this to propel a space craft to those speeds



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 05:06 AM
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Great thread! You are right, current understanding of special relativity tells us that the speed of light is the limit of velocity. However with the more complex general relativity, wormholes and the bending of spacetime is allowed, but requires large amounts of energy. I think that there are so many sightings of alien spacecraft and given the distances between stars that they must have either overcome the problem of the lightspeed barrier or they have enabled the warping of spacetime. Of course there is another possiblilty quantum teleportation which avoids the need to travel at all. These 3 concepts are recognised by our "modern" physics. There could be far more physics we don't know about. I personally think they bend space time using either electromagnetic or gravitational fields because this is consistant with observation.



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 06:33 AM
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Physics of UFO Travel

Is an older thread you might be interested in.



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 08:47 AM
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thanx for all the replys, but i have a 2 new questions. First is what do you guys think aliens use to obtain such massive amounts of energy. Second is, does anyone believe, they are just immortal or live very long, and dont look at time as us mortals whos travels in space would be confined to a 60 year window. Them living for a huge ammount of time, would allow them to travel at the speed of light and not have the same inclination to believe if it cannot be done in an earth mans time it is not worth doing.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by funny_pom
In the terms of light speed I personally think it is not possible. But getting close is. I think scientists propelled an object to nearly light speed in a giant magnetron thing underground somewhere. I don’t know all the facts but I think it is under a city somewhere and it is a massive circular track powered by electron magnets. Although I don’t know how they would manage this to propel a space craft to those speeds



I suggest you look up some of the Anti-matter threads on ATS. www.abovetopsecret.com...



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