What does the flag mean to you?

In light of the upcoming celebration of Independence day and the upcoming debate over flag burning I was wondering what our flag means to you.

To me our flag means a great many things. It symbolizes the freedoms to be able to do all the things we want to do and are able to do. Our flag symbolizes pride. Look at the Olympic athletes and the pride in their eyes when the flag is raised after they have won an event and got the gold medal. There is no shame.
Look at how that flag flies over every Government office, State office, County office and City offices. It flies over Schools, and at sporting events.
When the flag is flown I see many different things. I have seen the flag flown at half staff honoring someone special, I have seen it draped over a casket in honor of a soldier killed. I have even escorted those same caskets home from a war.
I have seen the flag folded with respect and dignity when it handed to a family member.
There are thousands of men and women who have died under that flag. Those people all died under that flag in war. All the way through the history of America that flag has represented many things to many people. Whether it was hope in a new life here from a foreign land or for whatever reason they still hold it dear to their hearts.
From Iwo Jima to Normandy and Pearl Harbor and the Battle of the Coral Sea, all the way through the Korean war and into Vietnam and the battles of Khe San and all the way into the war in the middle east.
Tens of thousands of veterans have loved and yes, died for that flag. Sure it is symbolic in nature, but to thousands of Veterans and Americans in general it is our hope, our pride and our respect.
I know it is a persons right to burn it and deface it. When you do this little thing you do, think about who you are spitting on. If your Grandfather was a vet from WW2 you are spitting in his face. If your Grandmother was working in the factories in WW2 you are spitting in her face as well. Think of the family that has lost someone when you do what you do. You are spitting in their face as well.
To say that the flag is not important, is so wrong. Tell that to an American POW who cried when he saw the flag and knew finally he was free. Tell that to a family that just lost a son or daughter in war that believed in the flag and everything it stands for so you can do what you do.
Tell that to a large group of vets while you are burning or desecrating the flag. Chances are you will get told off or injured. But it is your right to do so.
I am not the best writer in this forum but I at least love that flag for all it stands for. I would have died under that flag for you had it been asked of me so you can do what you would do.
For a very long time the flag has flown and I pray to Almighty God that it keeps flying with honor and dignity.
No American should be ashamed of our flag. The flag is ours and it flies with the rememberance of tens of thousands of people who have died to allow you to do what you want to do to it. While it is wrong in my heart of hearts, it is still my flag,
and it still flies with pride and dignity in my home.
I was just wondering if there are other people that still appreciate the flag for what it is and what it represents to all Americans.
God bless America and may he bless our flag and our nation forever.


Lilwolf ( A proud Veteran)

Lilwolf......

I'm right there with you brother. The ones that GAVE protestors the RIGHT to BURN THE FLAG.... were THE TROOPS. To those VETERANS of ALL WARS who defended THEIR COUNTRY......

Salute

Peace!

Dave

[edit on 6/27/2006 by Dave Rabbit]

Right on brother!

Dave - what is your sense of the military member's attitude these days? A lot has changed, wouldn't you say?

I think they all have the same basic need for an outlet as was provided by RFT in VN and later, but how would you compare the current generation of troops to the VietNam era crowd?

Also, how often were you around GIs after your return from Viet Nam and during your absent years? Do you still have a finger on the pulse?

Rabbit Food

Originally posted by Carrot69
Right on brother!

Dave - what is your sense of the military member's attitude these days? A lot has changed, wouldn't you say?

I think they all have the same basic need for an outlet as was provided by RFT in VN and later, but how would you compare the current generation of troops to the Vietnam era crowd?

Also, how often were you around GI's after your return from Viet Nam and during your absent years? Do you still have a finger on the pulse?

Rabbit Food

Hey Carrot....

Attitude..... well... my opinion only of course, I think they are a hell of a lot more tolerant now than our era of soldiers. There was a tremendous upheaval in the 60's and early 70's and I think that had a lot to do with it. Secondly, the troops of today are a hell of a lot better trained and prepared than we were. There was such a RUSH to get troops over to Nam back then..... today the guys and gals are better educated and better trained... and of course, have better weaponry. I have conversed with troops of my era from time to time over the years and, of course, have a great relationship with about a dozen Iraq troops there now.... so I guess I have as good a pulse as any without actually being there.... I can tell you this.... patience is running thin amongst the masses. They see the same things that I do.... and with each passing day it becomes more of a quagmire... just like Vietnam did. One other item of note too..... the average age of a Vietnam troop was 19..... the average age of an Iraq troop is 22. Three years of maturity makes a hell of a lot of difference.

Thanks for your comments and taking the time to make a post.

Dave

A Symbol Of All That I Hold Dear

For me, the flag represents America, and I love America.

While I suppose there's quite a lot more to the story, in the end, it all boils down to that.

The problem I have with flags is that they are just a piece of material, waved in our faces by politicians to stir up patriotic fervour.
I personally could not give a damn if someone decided to wipe their arse on ours, it means nothing to me. I love my country, it's rich history, it's beauty but that is not represented by the flag. The flag is nothing more than a symbol, a national identifier and nothing I would go fight over. Those who would have us fight for that flag / national honour would not dirty their hands fighting themselves, always worth remembering.

Blindly following the flag without question is a dangerous path to follow.

God save the Queen ....

Pip Pip.... you have a very valid point BG...... sometimes symbolism in any form can be taken to the extreme. And you are right on with the comments how conveniently the politicians wrap themselves in their country's flag when it is politically correct. You are also correct that people go to war NOT because of a flag..... they go to war because they want to be FREE. The flag dates back to when our countries were not on the best of terms in Boston.... both of our ancestors believed then that the FLAG was the symbol of conquest and showed that something material belonged to whosoever's flag was flying at the time. I repeat it again here as it really, for me, and other countries that HAVE FLAGS that proudly wave somewhere..... gets right to the bottom line.....



It's the SOLDIER my British brother...... that makes it possible for each of us to even have a country that is FREE and have a FLAG to fly.

Thanks for taking the time to make a post.

Cheers!

Dave

It does'nt really mean anything to me, I mean it's just
a design made of colorful cloth.

I understand what it means to some people, and what it
represents, but regardless, it's just a design made of dyed
cotton to me.

Iori, and..... it was the SOLDIERS of YOUR COUNTRY and THEIR ALLIES who gave you the right to say JUST what you said without FEAR of someone bursting your door down.... taking you away...... throwing you and your family in prison for an eternity. FREEDOM OF SPEECH..... it is alive today because of the SOLDIERS... not a flag, as a few have said...... but the flag was a rallying point for the SOLDIERS, so to me, they go hand in hand. When you are respecting the flag.... you are respecting the soldiers who have died defending it and a country.

The flag IS a piece of CLOTH..... but it symbolizes thousands of soldiers who gave their lives to insure that some day, someone could simply say.... "It is just a piece of cloth."

Class dismissed!

Dave

The flag always reminds me that these colors never run.

For me it's deeper though. It means sacrifice, liberty, and freedom. I also know that it was made to reflect the beliefs and values of the Founding Fathers. The stars are represent each of the states (and so on), but the stars are also a symbol of the heavens above and the divine goals of mankind. The stripes are symbolic of rays of light beaming from the sun.

Each of the colors also have meanings that most people have forgotten. The white signifies purity and innocence, the red is the valor and steadfastness, and the blue stands for vigilance, perseverance, and justice.

Just an extra class lesson for you.

Peace

yeah....well....there was a time..
america is a great country.

EDIT----------------------------------------
I do not mean to say that soldiers are idiots, or they are anything other than doing their job and proud of what they've done cuz it's a big part of their life... and it kinda sounds like when I re-read what I wrote that I am saying Dave Rabbit and soldiers are stupid. I didn't mean it that way. Sorry if it sounded like that!
----------------------------------------------


If people were smarter, we wouldn't need the soldiers to begin with. I like you, dave rabbit. I like your personality, especially on the podcasts... but to say poets and philosophers didn't shape what the soldiers fight for... that is an outrageous thing to say.

It was the SOLDIERS who have killed millions of innocent people in war. It is the SOLDIERS that mindlessly take orders from a superior just because it is their "patriotic duty". It will be the SOLDIERS who either choose to follow a flag and a brand name, even if that means to follow it in agression against his fellow citizen... or it is the SOLDIERS who will choose to do the hardest thing of all, which is to stop being SOLDIERS and start being humans, by putting down the guns and the flags and the illusory patriotic duty, and stand against violence, even in the face of death. Because the civilians who respect the soldiers, throughout history, end up regretting it once the soldiers turn against them because their country has inevitably evolved into a warmongering tyrant because of SOLDIERS and their patriotic duty, as well as brainwashed citizens who shout in support of the brainwashed SOLDIERS and the brainwashing FLAG.

To me, the flag has lost all of it's illusory meaning, and same for it's namesake. We don't need it. We need each other. That means EVERYONE, reguardless of race or nationality or whatever farce flag they are waving.

I support the Earth, and humanity, and animals, and real things. Not things that have been force fed to me since I was born just because I was born into a certain area of the world.

People use the flag to gag their own inner sense of knowing, because it's not convenient to question things.

I mean no offense by any of these comments.

It's just the reality of the situation.

[edit on 27-12-2007 by indierockalien]

flags represent the restraint of an organised body of people who created a system to enslave me and make sure i stay in line,

i would happily burn any flag, especially the american

reply to post by tankthinker


Careful...I've been threatened with hypothetical bodily harm for making similar comments on ATS...make sure you have on some flame-retardant underwear!

That being said, in the spirit of noobs needing to rehash this topic every few months...

I would proudly excercise my right to free speech and burn the flag if the spirit moved me and I would fiercely defend anyone else's desire to do the same.

Such an act would be the ultimate expression of what the flag symbolizes - freedom and liberty. I have said it before and I will say it again, anyone who doesn't get this issue - Please "foe" me now and be done with it, save the flames for someone whose position could possibly be influenced. Additionally, I would be proud to call you my foe as well if you are so soft on your definition of patriotism.

[edit on 28/1/08 by kosmicjack]

I myself have strong convictions about "Old Glory" and although I am an American citizen and have every right to wave and fly my flag, I also always feel slight guilt for not having served in the military.

I can understand why some folks would say our troops are brainwashed individuals but there is no guarantee that for every weapon we lay down, the enemy will do the same. I know our troops get a bad rep by some folks yet these same people fail to see the other side of the coin. I for one think University students are the ones that continue to allow themselves to get brainwashed by the Liberal Academia.

reply to post by kosmicjack


I did'nt have a problem with your post until you decided to call someone a nobb. That really was'nt necessary to get your point across.

Im sure your have your reason's why you want to burn the flag. And that is your right. I for one would not because I have family members who haved served WWII, Korean, Vietnam. To me, the flag reminds me of my family and there friends who died for our country. I don't look at the flag in a political aspect like all those quacks on capital hill doing nothing but spinning helmets. That is not what our flag stands. Valor and bravery, vigilance, perseverance of the people. Thats what I think our flag stands for.

If people were not so heavily brainwashed as children, it would be very simple for them to see that governments, militaries, wars, etc. are all very stupid ideas.

A flag exploits the natural tribal nature of human beings, and connected to emotions, it creates incredible cohesiveness. If the pricks with the money who run your fascist government want you to go kill people for them, they drape themselves in the flag (tribal emblem) and tell you your country (tribe) is being threatened.

Very basic psychology is used in all of this, but it is so ingrained in us that we just can't resist.

My most personal opinion is that flags should be made with and by respectable US citizens and NOT in China or anywhwere else to be sold here. I grew up seeing enough of these draped on coffins of our dead soldiers and folded...especially during Vietnam.I haven't as much respect for it as I have for those who have died believing in it and our country. So many have also died in other countries because they believed we would be able to protect them from our common enemies. To me burning a flag would disgrace all of these people. If it's so important to burn a flag then they should draw one on their arm so they can remember their shame longer.

To me its the freedom to either be a bum or to be a millionaire and anything in between based on my free will and determination. It means I can go to the library and get on the internet and research anything I wish. It means I can go to any school I want to, so long as I am determined to go there. It means I am not forced to do anything but follow the laws, and that is only asked of me. You get the benefit of the doubt that you are not a criminal, fair trial etc.

The only thing that would cause me to no longer honor the flag, is if I were RFID tagged. The moment I do not have the freedom to be a harmless squatter in the sonoran desert, is the moment I illegally migrate to mexico.

Originally posted by psychedeliackI am not forced to do anything but follow the laws, and that is only asked of me.

You don't pay income tax? Property tax?