Space Sabotage

Greetings all i hope u r well.
I have been thinkin about this particular subject for some time now but cant come up with any answers , Space travell has allways been a daunting task but somehow i feel that there is a possibility that it is being made more difficult then it should be, We havent ventured into the stars for a while now and i find myself asking, Is someone or something making things harder then they should be?
This particular problem has become so infamouse that NASA themselves are refering to it as " The Great Galactic Ghoul" , But is it a subject to be joked about or is it something that is far more terrifying?

Looking into this i have found out that out of all the government funded projects out there , Spaceflight is the one project that has had more technical errors , foul ups , and has the highest rate of incidental accidents, these are so bad that i imagine should any other project that has Not been approved for government funding have the same ammount of errors such as spaceflight, then they would go under and would be finished in a heartbeat, They are probably thinking to themselves "thank god for government funding". Allthough i have my own theories about why the government continues to fund such a errorfull project like space travell , such as weapons research and millitary research etc , i cant help but wonder about certain aspects of this subject.
These errors range from anywhere like simple things such as wires burning out in satelites to the tragedy of the Challenger explosion.
I find it interesting though, the fact that this happens to Russia as well as the United States of America, Im from Australia so i dont know much about the USA or the USSR space program but werent those two countries involved or still are involved in a massive space race?? seems somewhat interesting to me.

There are a few other things that i find interesting about this whole thing.
The hubble telescope has had its fair share of problems, i remember when everyone was talking about it allthough when it went up , the images it took were far from perfect. The images took from the hubble were blurry and pixelated and an extensive repair on the telescope was needed, even today the hubble is refered to as a "Triumph of selective filters" made to hide its imperfections rather then give credit to "the ground breaking shots" the project leaders and supporters claim them to be.

Another example of Space Sabotage could be the Mars Explorer mission that took place in the year of 1993.
This launch was made specificily to take close up pictures of the Cydonia Region of mars (Or so they say) but the thing is that when the craft was entering the orbit of Mars , it all of a sudden ceased functioning. Now i think to myself , why would something stop working as soon as it enteres a planets orbitory field??

Other such examples are the extensive number of spacecraft explosions that have taken place over the years such as the craft that follow:

Koralb 11 - Soviet spacecraft that exploded.

Sputnik 24 - Spacecraft that exploded.

Then there is the Challenger tragedy that was mentioned before. and i am sure there are more of these explosions that have happend in the past.
There are other faults aswell as those mentioned above like for example, NASA's own Mariner 3 which was supposed to to work on mars was launched and completely bypassed the planet completely.Another one would be Mariner 8 which fell into the Atlantic Ocean.
Also I almost forgot about the Apollo 13 mission, and the tragic deaths of people aboared the space shuttle.
If one were to make a list of all of these faults you would probably have a list that went on forever , Now , to me this could be concluded as one of two things which are:

1: Gross incompetence

or

2:Space Sabotage

And who knows , Space Sabotage may or may not be done just by the people of earth.

A fact that i found to be interesting to say the least is about the Russion Phobos probes , these two probes were launched in the year of 1998 to investigate the smaller moon of Mars which is called Phobos also.
The Russians were fascinated by the moons irregular orbital patterns which led many to believe that the moon was an artificial contruction or was hollow. The first probe that was launched was somehow lost on its way to mars from earth and the second Phobos 2 , made it to mars successfully however on its way to the small moon , took pictures of what looked like a cylinder like shadow on the surface of the moon, Now here is the interesting part.
Shortly after that, the probe was destroyed and the last image which was transmitted back to Russia was labelled as too sensitive for release and for some reason Russian Orthodox priest were asked to go to the Phobos 2 controll center in moscow to disscuss the pictures recieved from the probe.
My question is why would priests of all people be summond to talk about the images?? i find this fascinating.
Also Before the launch of the Mars Observer on September 25th in the year of 1992 NASA tech personell examined its outer housing as part of a routine check and inside they were stumped to find that the probe was filled with garbage such as paper, metal filings, dirt and even plaster of paris. At this time hurricane Andrew had blown through the area but i stand by and do not believe for one second that these debris got into the probe by a storms force alone.
I find it interesting too that out of the 35 attempts to reach the planet , only 12 have been successfull, of these 9 were attempts to land on the surface and but only 3 of them survived and the rest crashed or exploded in Marsian orbit.
But even the successfull ones encountered problems like the Sojourner which was launched in 1997, could only move a few dozen metres from its landing zone for some reason.And a very mysteriouse fact that i found is that in July 1998 the Galileo spacecraft was doing a pass near one of Jupiters moons, Europa, when all of a sudden it stopped transmitting information to earth , It has been long speculated that
Europa along with Mars may be able to sustain life.

Now if the subject in general is taking place , who is responsible?
perhaps NASA themselves are doing it, as horrible as it sounds , given all that we as a people have heared about the silencing of UFO abductees and witnesses , is it that far fetched that NASA dont want us to discover the Alien presence outside of earth??
Linked dissidents would also occur in the Russians space program.
Or could it be a rivalry between competing contractors?
The financial windfall of landing a successfull government contract would be to some people of the bussiness world irresistable and the best way to succeed would be to take out the competition using whatever means neccesary and/or available, including sabotage .
The power of money would easely overcome the sanctity of human lives as we all know has happened in times past.

Who knows though, for all we know the FBI, MJ-12 , The Greys and others could be involved aswell allthough proving this would be very difficult to say the least.

I would like to hear the members of ATS feedback on this and i would like to mention that no opinion or viewpoint will be scrutanised or flamed, all opinions and views will be respected .

I look forward to your thoughts on this intriguing subject .

Many thanks

Omega85

Well, as compelling as those possibilities might be, I think it is equally reasonable to attribute NASA, the ESA, and Russian Space Agencie's failures to the immensive complexity and difficulty in carrying out missions in space. Missions to Mars especially are no routine matter. The Red Planet is very far away and in travelling that distance there are countless things that can go wrong. Machines don't last forever, especially in hostile enviroments like space. Another factor is the fact that NASA is painfully underfunded. I can't speak for the European or Russian Space Agencies, but I suspect the case is the same with them.

I would HARDLY call it "Gross Incompetance" OR sabotage. I'd say that the record for space missions is incredible considering the complexities involved. No astronauts lost in space, three fatal accidents involving mission craft... Considering that we've been flying in space since the 1960s I'd say that only losing the crews of Apollo 1, Challenger and Columbia is a pretty darned good record. And Challenger was a case of "We did it before, we can get away with it once more". As far as probes go, all it takes is the decimal point one over from where it SHOULD be, and you just crashed into the atmosphere instead of inserting into orbit.

Originally posted by Omega85
Space travell has allways been a daunting task but somehow i feel that there is a possibility that it is being made more difficult then it should be, We havent ventured into the stars for a while now and i find myself asking, Is someone or something making things harder then they should be?

Yes, this entity is referred to as the "Government" but seriously, they are the main reason why we don't continue to go to the Moon and or send people to Mars. With a lack of interest and motivation, they tend to neglect NASA somewhat.

I don't see how it's being made more difficult that it should be though.

Looking into this i have found out that out of all the government funded projects out there , Spaceflight is the one project that has had more technical errors , foul ups , and has the highest rate of incidental accidents, these are so bad that i imagine should any other project that has Not been approved for government funding have the same ammount of errors such as spaceflight, then they would go under and would be finished in a heartbeat, They are probably thinking to themselves "thank god for government funding".

Well spaceflight is still in its infancy. We're learning as we go. The aerospace industry in general is full of accidents and mishaps. Building machines that can fly or go into space is an incredible thing really and there are so many variables, that things can easily go wrong. Out of curiosity what other kinds of Government projects were you comparing spaceflight with exactly? Were they even really comparable?

Allthough i have my own theories about why the government continues to fund such a errorfull project like space travell , such as weapons research and millitary research etc , i cant help but wonder about certain aspects of this subject.

You really make it sound like the space industry is full of errors and is mostly unsuccessful, which isn't true. And yes I'm sure the US Government is indeed interested in weapons in space.

These errors range from anywhere like simple things such as wires burning out in satelites to the tragedy of the Challenger explosion.

Hareware and technical issues like this happen in all challenging industries. The space industry is not alone in this. Why make it appear so?

I find it interesting though, the fact that this happens to Russia as well as the United States of America

Why shouldn't it happen to Russia? Even China had problems with there unmanned rocket launches, but they sorted out the problems. That's just how it works.

Im from Australia so i dont know much about the USA or the USSR space program but werent those two countries involved or still are involved in a massive space race?? seems somewhat interesting to me.

They were in a space race, but no longer, due to the fact that the USSR no longer exsists. There is a lot more cooperation between the US and Russia now. But a new race may begin between the US and China once China starts launching more often.

There are a few other things that i find interesting about this whole thing.
The hubble telescope has had its fair share of problems, i remember when everyone was talking about it allthough when it went up , the images it took were far from perfect. The images took from the hubble were blurry and pixelated and an extensive repair on the telescope was needed, even today the hubble is refered to as a "Triumph of selective filters" made to hide its imperfections rather then give credit to "the ground breaking shots" the project leaders and supporters claim them to be.

Can you show me images that are better than Hubbles at the moment?

Another example of Space Sabotage could be the Mars Explorer mission that took place in the year of 1993.

Perhaps you ment to say the Mars Observer.

This launch was made specificily to take close up pictures of the Cydonia Region of mars (Or so they say) but the thing is that when the craft was entering the orbit of Mars , it all of a sudden ceased functioning. Now i think to myself , why would something stop working as soon as it enteres a planets orbitory field??

It was not made specifically to take pictures of the Cydonia Region. "They" (I assume you mean NASA) definately didn't say that. It's mission goals were:

1. determine the global elemental and mineralogical character of the surface material;
2. define globally the topography and gravitational field;
3. establish the nature of the Martian magnetic field;
4. determine the temporal and spatial distribution, abundance, sources, and sinks of volatiles and dust over a seasonal cycle;
5. explore the structure and circulation of the atmosphere.

No one knows for sure what happened, but one should note that it had been 17 years since NASA's previous mission to Mars. And that the Mars Observer was basicly a converted commercial Earth-orbiting communications satellite. The engine was also derived from an Earth orbital satillite and it wasn't really ment to lie dormant for so many months before being fired again. One of the main theories is that the engine and or propelant was the cause of the loss of the probe.

If one were to make a list of all of these faults you would probably have a list that went on forever , Now , to me this could be concluded as one of two things which are:

1: Gross incompetence

or

2:Space Sabotage

And who knows , Space Sabotage may or may not be done just by the people of earth.

You would find a large list of accidents. I'm sure one could make a list of aerospace accidents that would be just as large, if not larger than the ones of the space program. Out of your two choices i'd say both are wrong.

A fact that i found to be interesting to say the least is about the Russion Phobos probes , these two probes were launched in the year of 1998 to investigate the smaller moon of Mars which is called Phobos also.

Umm.. they were launched in 1988, not 1998.

The Russians were fascinated by the moons irregular orbital patterns which led many to believe that the moon was an artificial contruction or was hollow.

The hollow Phobos theory start in Russia in 1958 by Iosif Samuilovich Shklovsky. There were other theories that were just as silly, like for example. Siegfried Frederick Singer who, in 1960, said "[Phobos'] purpose would probably be to sweep up radiation in Mars' atmosphere, so that Martians could safely operate around their planet". or Raymond H. Wilson Jr. who in 1963 said that "Phobos might be a colossal base orbiting Mars"

Looking back these theories seem very silly and rightfully so. We didn't know nearly enough about space back then as we do now. Those theories have long been discarded due to better development in optics and the ability to send probes.

Phobos 2 , made it to mars successfully however on its way to the small moon , took pictures of what looked like a cylinder like shadow on the surface of the moon,

Is this the picture? upload.wikimedia.org... Looks like a normal shadow to me.

Now here is the interesting part. Shortly after that, the probe was destroyed and the last image which was transmitted back to Russia was labelled as too sensitive for release and for some reason Russian Orthodox priest were asked to go to the Phobos 2 controll center in moscow to disscuss the pictures recieved from the probe. My question is why would priests of all people be summond to talk about the images?? i find this fascinating.

Do you have a source for this information?

Also Before the launch of the Mars Observer on September 25th in the year of 1992 NASA tech personell examined its outer housing as part of a routine check and inside they were stumped to find that the probe was filled with garbage such as paper, metal filings, dirt and even plaster of paris. At this time hurricane Andrew had blown through the area but i stand by and do not believe for one second that these debris got into the probe by a storms force alone.

I'd also like your source for this information. I've read that the Mars Observer was contaminated by rain and dust, but not filled with garbage. Perhaps you ment the room the probe was being held in was filled with garbage and what not?

I find it interesting too that out of the 35 attempts to reach the planet , only 12 have been successfull, of these 9 were attempts to land on the surface and but only 3 of them survived and the rest crashed or exploded in Marsian orbit.

Perhaps this should be a sign to you that spaceflight is indeed really difficult

(running out of space, coninued in next post)

[edit on 25-6-2006 by jra]

But even the successfull ones encountered problems like the Sojourner which was launched in 1997, could only move a few dozen metres from its landing zone for some reason.

I would assume that is because they had to be able to keep visual contact with the rover. It didn't have an onboard navigation camera like the current Mars rovers. Plus it could only travel at 1cm/s. The mission was only planned to last for about a week to a month, but in fact managed to last for almost 3 months. Either way, the thing wasn't going to get that far away traveling at 1cm/s.

And a very mysteriouse fact that i found is that in July 1998 the Galileo spacecraft was doing a pass near one of Jupiters moons, Europa, when all of a sudden it stopped transmitting information to earth.

Link please. I don't recall any such event taking place. Galileo continued to transmit scientific data until it was deorbited in 2003, so I'd say your information is faulty.

is it that far fetched that NASA dont want us to discover the Alien presence outside of earth??

I think it's far fetched. Why go to all the trouble of publicly trying to look for signs of life and then sabotage the expensive probes? It makes no sense at all.

I think you need to recheck some of your sources of information and also learn more about the complications of designing things for spaceflight. You should also take a look at the history of aviation and all the hundreds, if not thousands of accidents and mishaps etc.

[edit on 25-6-2006 by jra]

When my family and I first moved to this area 15 years ago, the man who came to inspect the house for my father, was a NASA civil servant. During the middle of a work day for two or three hours, he would do this. It was his second job! Where else can you stop what you are doing, take a three hour break, and tend to your second job?

And it is not uncommon.

There are many inappropriate excuses for civil servants not to work. You can't fire them. To fire one person, it may take six months. A group of people may take a year if not more. When catastrophic accidents happen to our space shuttles and kill our astronauts, who takes the blame? who takes responsiblity? who is fired? Absolutely no one? It is a three ring circus for politicians, hopeless romantics and the incompetent. Although, there are some bright and competent individuals who work outside of NASA, for NASA, but as contractors. Though you will be hard pressed to hear good rumours about the civil servants.

There were a few fires and an accident which ultimately doomed Mir, all of which happened during the period Americans were aboard the Space Station.

Because by the time the Americans were on Mir it was already incredibly old and starting to fall apart. It wasn't designed to be in orbit for as long as it was.

First off before i reply i would like to welcome you Jra and i hope u r well.
You have raised some very good questions.

Originally posted by jra
Yes, this entity is referred to as the "Government"

but seriously, they are the main reason why we don't continue to go to the Moon and or send people to Mars. With a lack of interest and motivation, they tend to neglect NASA somewhat.
I don't see how it's being made more difficult that it should be though.

Interesting allthough i must ask , IF this entity is indeed the government why would they not be interested in going to space or taking part in these space missions?
One would think that space would be something that they would be very keen to get into and establish something with.
I dont know really how it is being made more difficult, it just seems that things keep getting worse and worse over time and NASA are goverment funded and in saying that , they are funded through the bush administration which is as a matter of fact, the most wealthiest governmental administration ever recorded. So i mean if they wanted to get up there, they very well could i mean it is the US government after all.

Well spaceflight is still in its infancy. We're learning as we go. The aerospace industry in general is full of accidents and mishaps. Building machines that can fly or go into space is an incredible thing really and there are so many variables, that things can easily go wrong. Out of curiosity what other kinds of Government projects were you comparing spaceflight with exactly? Were they even really comparable?

In my opinion Jra your point is a valid and respected one, perhaps aviation in general is comparable but in saying that i must say that spaceflight is a unique subject and would be very difficult to try to harness.I think that things can also go wrong with general aviation craft aswe

You really make it sound like the space industry is full of errors and is mostly unsuccessful, which isn't true. And yes I'm sure the US Government is indeed interested in weapons in space

My apologies for coming off that way, without a doubt they have come far in that field, however at what risk?

Hareware and technical issues like this happen in all challenging industries. The space industry is not alone in this. Why make it appear so?

TBH im not sure perhaps because it is so hazardouse.

Why shouldn't it happen to Russia? Even China had problems with there unmanned rocket launches, but they sorted out the problems. That's just how it works.

Interestin point, But perhaps this might be a global thing

They were in a space race, but no longer, due to the fact that the USSR no longer exsists. There is a lot more cooperation between the US and Russia now. But a new race may begin between the US and China once China starts launching more often.

Maybie so , and that will be interesting indeed.

Can you show me images that are better than Hubbles at the moment?

Not off the top off my head, but i will look around, i dont know if i will find them though but i will have a look.

Perhaps you ment to say the Mars Observer.

Nope my mistake , explorer in 92 sorry about that.

It was not made specifically to take pictures of the Cydonia Region. "They" (I assume you mean NASA) definately didn't say that. It's mission goals were:
1. determine the global elemental and mineralogical character of the surface material;
2. define globally the topography and gravitational field;
3. establish the nature of the Martian magnetic field;
4. determine the temporal and spatial distribution, abundance, sources, and sinks of volatiles and dust over a seasonal cycle;
5. explore the structure and circulation of the atmosphere.
No one knows for sure what happened, but one should note that it had been 17 years since NASA's previous mission to Mars. And that the Mars Observer was basicly a converted commercial Earth-orbiting communications satellite. The engine was also derived from an Earth orbital satillite and it wasn't really ment to lie dormant for so many months before being fired again. One of the main theories is that the engine and or propelant was the cause of the loss of the probe.

Interesting theory , i will look into it.

You would find a large list of accidents. I'm sure one could make a list of aerospace accidents that would be just as large, if not larger than the ones of the space program. Out of your two choices i'd say both are wrong.

Hmmm yes, but given a delicate situation such as this wouldnt u want to be accurate>?

Umm.. they were launched in 1988, not 1998.

U r right i seem to have made alot of typos last nite lol, must have been tired.

The Russians were fascinated by the moons irregular orbital patterns which led many to believe that the moon was an artificial contruction or was hollow.

The hollow Phobos theory start in Russia in 1958 by Iosif Samuilovich Shklovsky. There were other theories that were just as silly, like for example. Siegfried Frederick Singer who, in 1960, said "[Phobos'] purpose would probably be to sweep up radiation in Mars' atmosphere, so that Martians could safely operate around their planet". or Raymond H. Wilson Jr. who in 1963 said that "Phobos might be a colossal base orbiting Mars"

Looking back these theories seem very silly and rightfully so. We didn't know nearly enough about space back then as we do now. Those theories have long been discarded due to better development in optics and the ability to send probes.

Agreed.

Phobos 2 , made it to mars successfully however on its way to the small moon , took pictures of what looked like a cylinder like shadow on the surface of the moon,

Is this the picture? upload.wikimedia.org... Looks like a normal shadow to me.

Do you have a source for this information?

I will locate it for u and post it here.

JRA forgive me but i have run out of room and i will post more answers ASAP u have my word

Omega

Many many remote viewers have independantly reported relitvaly small faceted objects that orbit Earth and other planets. They say they work kind of like tracking grenades ennacting a quarrentine of Earth. The quarentine will be in effect untill mankind passes some kind of threshold(We are clearly nowhere close). Some of our probes might have gotten through due to some sort of "stealth" added to bypass these things. It would also explain why ET is trying to be a secret....