A meditation technique for minds that won't shut down

Hi Diseria

The mind is killer, if you can kill the mind you can do anything...

Try this very simple technique, simply follow a steam in your mind from the sea to it's source, do not try and race to the source simply imagaine your 'perfect' travelling progression from the sea to the source.

This will slow down your mind in relation to your journey, the journey process actually begins to wrestle the mind into a state of believing it is imagining it is in control.

If your starts to wander, simply start from the sea again :-)

Another thing is not to try and meditate in your bed, a bed is for sleeping and is surrounded by that energy.
Find a comfortable place in your room where you are comfortable and begin your meditation there. Also try and meditate at a set time every day as this starts to become a time-set habit for the mind.

hope this helps

Actually, my visualization is -very- weak. I'm mostly an audio person. I imagine sounds, smells and touch most strongly, and vision the weakest. I don't think I've every imagined or dreamt involving taste.

You say imagine a train.. when I imagine or think of a train, I hear every sound associated with it... and every smell.. but I can only visualize it in flickers...

Anybody else like that?

Originally posted by Dramier
Anybody else like that?

I have a problem with visualization as well, yes. I find it hard to go into detail when I imagine stuff. Sure I can go all the way into detail, but I can't have so many details associated with the same visualization. Ticks me off, is what it does...

I have never done anything like this before so after reading this I thought I would give it a try. So I lay in bed closed my eyes and imagined myself in the sethrough box with all my thoughts outside, none trying to get in just silent flickering images, then when I imagened myself in a infinate dark and quiet place, after about 10mins my vision started coming back (even though I still had my eyes closed) and it felt like I was trying to sit up or lift off the bed which frightend the s*@t out of me I jumped and was right back a square 1 wide awake lying on the bed and a bit freaked out. Has this happened to anybody else trying this?

First off -- thank you *everyone* for all the help and advice! Truly.. know that it is appreciated!

Where to start..
Angela -- *lmao* I just shaved my head not two weeks ago!!! (It's only hair..) And I'm not one for make up.. I'm too broke, too lazy, and frankly I just don't care anymore. I'm learning to like me for me.. and that means seeing the real me, blemishes and all.

I'm not sure if trepenation is a quick fix.. takes a lot of guts to drill a hole in the skull! However, if I ever get it done, I'll be sure to let you know and take pics.

Regarding visualization:
It's very easy for me to visualize practically anything.. I just watch the tv in my head! It's only been in the past few years that I've been 'visually abstinant', so to speak. (The only true bi-product of this is that I don't feel the need to buy things.. I haven't noticed any difference in my abilities to visualize from that perspective.)
Might also be a function of me being a writer.. I have to see the place I'm writing about, otherwise I can't fill the reader in on the whole story..

To be honest, I've had problems visualizing my box the past few nights.. Might be because I'm so tired (started working again ), but when I lay down the blackness of the universe in my head is automatically there. I'm floating, it's silent, and I don't even see my box. (is that a good thing? I wondered, almost got worried, tried to sit in the box, but it was forced. Gave up on it after a few minutes and just floated..)

With regards to making meditation a 'certain time of the day' routine:
Is that truly the best way to go about it? I've been rebelling against routine since I first learned about the word.. watching my parents whiddle away their lives in the name of routine and so forth. Frankly, I can't even manage to eat at the same time every day.. I eat when I get hungry.
If each person develops their own way of meditation, wouldn't it follow that the time of meditation can vary?

Volatile:
Truly, this is a game of verbal semantics, but since my brain still won't accept the word 'mantra' with the idea of 'visual'.. there's a mis-match happening. The definition I have, and the one my dictionary has, refers to verbal mantras (specifically those of Hindus and Bhuddists, but that's neither here nor there). Point being -- is mantra the most correct word? Or is this simply a limitation of the vocabulary that should be expanded?
When the monks do their incantations, are they visualizing something? (this would explain why there's no mention of 'visual'..)
Or, is this more akin to the idea of.. say.. trying to remember something, you repeat it over and over (a mantra of sorts).. to take a visual idea and repeat it over and over.. that would make it mantra-like?

Like I said, a game of semantics, but you have piqued my interest.

And I'm not sure that sitting in the Lotus position will help me meditate.. it's to teach me to sit in one place and be comfortable with that. I'm constantly wrestling with feelings of restlessness and 'gotta do, gotta go', 'i should be doing something', et cetera. So, I've compromised.. if I 'must' be doing something, then let it be something that will, hopefully, ultimately slow me down. No sense in racing around trying to figure out something to do... I'm too clumsy for that!


And another question.. if I'm sitting upright, eyes almost closed.. am I actually focusing on the ground? (tried and it hurt my eyes) Or, is it rather to let the eyes go un-focused, but keep the ground in view? keep letting the light in?
(What is the purpose of keeping the eyes open, by the way? Simply so I don't fall asleep? Or to remind myself that I've got a body and a physical plane to keep in mind?)

[edit on 26-6-2006 by Diseria]

Originally posted by Volatile
1. Baddha Kona-asana (The Restrained Angle) : Is very good for removing the barrier between the hips that makes one unable to go into the advanced states of sitting. It is infact also refered to as "the Lotus", when seeing its meditative twin posture; Padma-asana.

2. Uttanasana (Standing Forward Bending) : Stretches your spine and hamstrings which are essential for any leg posture. You might also try the Padahastasana posture, which is what I use.

I googled, and managed to surprise myself.. I'm doing those already! However.. for the Uttannsana and Padahastasana, I'm curious if you know why must the feet be together? (I did the same moves in Pilates, but our feet were always at shoulder width..) ... and apparently, my equilibrium needs tuning... the cat sniffed my leg and I almost fell over!

And the knees straight -- my father taught me *not* to keep my knees straight, because if you stand like that long enough, you can actually pass out. (Apparently it cuts off circulation?)


Thank you!!

Originally posted by Damien_III
I have never done anything like this before so after reading this I thought I would give it a try. So I lay in bed closed my eyes and imagined myself in the sethrough box with all my thoughts outside, none trying to get in just silent flickering images, then when I imagened myself in a infinate dark and quiet place, after about 10mins my vision started coming back (even though I still had my eyes closed) and it felt like I was trying to sit up or lift off the bed which frightend the s*@t out of me I jumped and was right back a square 1 wide awake lying on the bed and a bit freaked out. Has this happened to anybody else trying this?

My first thoughts -- either you opened your third eye, or you had an OOBE..

I have not experienced either (probably because I want them too much!).. But, I'd suggest that you try not to get too scared (harrowing as the whole experience might be), and practice with it.

Many people hafta practice for years.. if you managed to do it like that *snaps fingers* then take it and ruuuun!! (okay, crawl first, but you get my point.)

This is really oversimplified, but, my mother and I both have difficult times sleeping. She taught me as a child to count to 1, over and over. That mental focus on something so simple almost always put me to sleep.

Now I just put my TV on a 30minute timer and go to sleep to it

It is funny to see how people still have the idea that meditation is ment to clear the mind. I suggest that people delve into Zazen and Vipasana meditation to find that it is nothing like that at all. Then you can all start to truly meditate

Originally posted by Enyalius
It is funny to see how people still have the idea that meditation is ment to clear the mind. I suggest that people delve into Zazen and Vipasana meditation to find that it is nothing like that at all. Then you can all start to truly meditate

In my research, I must say that *now* I agree with your words. When I started (a mere two weeks ago), the idea of meditation was connected with mental ease, that simply by doing the actions (or as I see now, the non-actions) of meditating, the mind settles itself. This is true, and not true..
There's a lot happening within when the body itself does not move. That I did not know when I started. When I see someone meditating, they are simply sitting there, 'doing nothing'. That's the miniscule understanding that I had of meditation.

I think the misunderstanding of meditation comes from a lack of will(?) to enlighten oneself, to look past what little we know.. which seems to run rampant in (America's) society. It's easier to look for a quick fix.. the chiropractor over years of prodding yourself to sit up straight, a pain pill to make the pain go away instead of consciously fixing the mistake. (In some form, I'm still waiting for my mom to recieve her Book of Answers, and the wand that *boink* makes everything all better.)

However, this thread has helped me immensely.. Others have knowledge that I do not, names and practices that I couldn't guess and wouldn't even begin to know where to look to find them..

Me sitting in my box, floating in my inner universe.. that was a start. I won't begrudge myself that, nor be angry that it was not correct. It worked for the time being, and brought me to a place that will allow me to continue further.
In fact, I'm rather pleased that I came up with something that cleared my mind. I don't know if it's meditation, or self-hypnosis.. *shrugs* The name isn't important.. being able to center myself is.

I thought I'd put this up to share with you guys.. It answers a previous question I had (eyes open why? am I focusing or not?). The hand position (mundra) is also very helpful.. which I had not previously known.

Again, thank you one and all.
Sounds odd, but moments like this help to restore my faith in humanity.. that we can get together and learn and share, and not compete with *everything*..
Thank You.

Hi again Diseria

There are a lot of followers of the living philosophy called Sant Mat, I have posted a link if you are interested - it is not a religion but a way of living your life...

Link to Sant Mat and Meditation

Enjoy

To Diseria:

if you are serious about mediatation, I recommend visiting a good bookstore or finding actual books on the internet, and getting a copy. It's a skill just like any other that can be learned with practice, and a handbook can be helpful.
There is only so much you can get from asking questions and getting answers on the ATS.

It tends to take me upwards 3-4 hours to fall asleep, which is likely why im grumpy all the time. I will deffinitly have to try some of these thanks. I was starting to think I was the only one who had a hard time sleeping, 10am right now, and you can bet I didnt wake up this early, decided it was time to just stay awake.

Something I do to fall asleep, which used to work, but not so well now, is to simply have a large, or simply LOUD fan on. Drown out the voices in my head, however it can make it worse, if the fan isnt a steady drowning of sound, such as having a wierd, balance to it, swinging loud then quietly. When the fan drowns out my thoughts its ussualy easier to clear my mind, although I suppose thats assisting my meditation and isnt really fair. Meh, if it gets the job done..

Originally posted by Caseysmind
It tends to take me upwards 3-4 hours to fall asleep, which is likely why im grumpy all the time. I will deffinitly have to try some of these thanks. I was starting to think I was the only one who had a hard time sleeping, 10am right now, and you can bet I didnt wake up this early, decided it was time to just stay awake.

Something I do to fall asleep, which used to work, but not so well now, is to simply have a large, or simply LOUD fan on. Drown out the voices in my head, however it can make it worse, if the fan isnt a steady drowning of sound, such as having a wierd, balance to it, swinging loud then quietly. When the fan drowns out my thoughts its ussualy easier to clear my mind, although I suppose thats assisting my meditation and isnt really fair. Meh, if it gets the job done..

Try staring at a candle - but fall asleep into the flame

Valorian -- Thank you! I shall check it out after work..
Do you practice this on your own, or do you meditate with others? Any difference?
(Some meditations require you to be completely alone, others say either or.. I know in the end it's personal preference, but I'm curious which you.. and everyone else.. prefer and why. )



Aelita -- You are right, to be sure. However, it's quite helpful to have some names in mind when you get to the bookstore.. (or, in my case, the library) How many times have I gone in looking for something, and found an entire section of books, each with their own version of an answer? Which one to pick? Random selection yields very little, and usually leaves me frustrated... not to mention out however much money..
I *love* books.. I'm not one to sit online and search for hours and hours, simply because it's worse than the bookstore, and lacks the credentials and/or life experience!

After almost 4 years of meditation, when I first began meditating, I used to have this problem before...

I learned this lesson, and I would like to share this with you. In order to focus on your goal in meditation without too much of distract of many thoughts comming into your mind, what you do is allow your many thought to flow through your mind, NEVER try to block them. Because you try to block them, you struggle your mind, thus distracting yourself even further.

So instead, allow these many thoughts to flow through you and ignore them, and then you would focus on your goal or on one point ahead of you.

When i meditate, I would focus on empty space or sometime I would envision a favorite place of mine, or find something to allow me to focus on one thing. It's like sailing through the river of many thoughts while focusing on one thing.

I hope this technqiues are useful to you.


Dragon out...



[edit on 27-6-2006 by Chaoic_Black_Dragon]

Originally posted by Diseria
I googled, and managed to surprise myself.. I'm doing those already! However.. for the Uttannsana and Padahastasana, I'm curious if you know why must the feet be together? (I did the same moves in Pilates, but our feet were always at shoulder width..) ... and apparently, my equilibrium needs tuning... the cat sniffed my leg and I almost fell over!

And the knees straight -- my father taught me *not* to keep my knees straight, because if you stand like that long enough, you can actually pass out. (Apparently it cuts off circulation?)


Thank you!!

Feet at kept together because it balances the body while doing yoga.

... And i've not passed out yet .

EDIT: I might as well add, that what Enyalius said is true.

[edit on 27-6-2006 by Volatile]