maybe but I think your missing the point. Human instinct is to preserve ones life. Its very hard to psychologically believe ones life is in danger to the point where one is able to put ones life in danger.

In the situation of the planes I don't really see why people would have thought there wasn't a possibility the planes would just land, or that somone else would do somthing.

Its a mental switch, to go from a point where your life is theoretically in danger to taking action that will deffinately result in danger isn't somthing most people are psychologically capable of.

Our brain rebels from the idea.

Before a bomb goes off, before a plane actually crashes, the brain won't let the body do somthing which it thinks will deffinately make the bomb go off or the plane crash.

Originally posted by Toltec
MD in a normal Hijacking, the procedure may in fact be designed so as not to provoke a hijacker. Therefore the grounding of military aircraft, avoids provoking. What most of the time is
a situation. In which diplomacy, is the first step as well as the most reasonable course of action.

In fact; The SOP for patrolling pilots in that area (considering what level of government facilities are there) is to try to order the the hijacked plane to the ground via radio. If that doesn't work, they must maneuver their own planes to *force* down the hijacked plane. If that doesn't work, they *shoot it down*!

Originally posted by GirlsHateMe if you were on a plane with hijackers, youd have to know you werent getting out of it alive...so why not fight back

According to reports, the plane that went down in Pennsylvania crashed for precisely that reason; Passengers on board had outside contact via cellphones, so they were told about the first plane to hit WTC. From the blackbox recordings, there were sounds indicating that the passengers stormed the cockpit.

Still, if there had been enough time *after* the hijackers had been overwhelmed, I would suspect that it wouldn't take much of a genius to pull back on the yoke enough to buy enough time for a control tower to *talk* them down safely via radio...Then again, the plane may have already been too low by that time.


[Edited on 2-11-2002 by MidnightDStroyer]

What were the prevailing winds like that day MD?

Had ten planes been Hijacked,
what maximum damage could they cause?

Nuclear power plants are not impervious to having a a commercial jet liner ram into them at full speed.

At that moment (9-11) how many planes were up in American skies. At that moment ? This event had the potential for seriously crippling and killing a whole lot of people.

How long was it from the time that occurred? From the WTC attack, to when when we had accounted. For all aircraft as either having landed. Or been sent to its point of origin (as well get all the airports shut down nation wide how long was that?)

The United States is a country, therefore in many ways. Its no different from any other country. If first obligation is to protect its people. If you send up a fighter to intercept and American plane in US Airspace. And at some point in time that plane deviates from its flight path and head towards a target. For instance offensivel,y like the Pentagon or the World Trade Center. The pilot is in command of his vessel. And under the laws of engagement he can fire. What would you do if you were the Pilot of an F-16 in that situation?

[Edited on 2-11-2002 by Toltec]

My eyesight was never good enough to be a military pilot...I have to wear glasses to drive a car & they require 20/20 *uncorrected* vision to be a combat pilot. I wouldn't be in that position to make a decision in the first place.

I can't even say for certain if I would be *capable* of intentionally killing anyone.

Don't get me wrong about, for example, an intruder in my own home with the means to cause harm to my family...I may not be capable of killing him in self defense, but I *would* be capable of permanently *maiming* him. I'll admit that, at least, I have swords here & I *do* know how to *use* them...A severed hand can prevent a *lot* of people from being able to shoot a gun & I know how to use stealth (within certain conditions...Like in my own home) to get close enough. My avatar is not entirely inaccurate.

If I had to force a plane down like that, I'd probably try to disable the engines or perhaps the control surfaces on the wings to make it come down (Yeah, presuming I could *aim* my guns that well; But then, merely being assigned to that geographical area would mean I'd have to be a *good* pilot to start with ). Granted, it would still be able to glide a long way before it had to land, but it *would* make it easier to force it down by maneuvering my own plane near it...Sort of like playing "Chicken" at a few hundred miles per hour while still in the air a few thousand feet.

Dangerous & risky, sure...But the possibility of saving some lives would be worth the risk. I'd probably also face Court Marshal afterwards for disobeying orders.


[Edited on 2-11-2002 by MidnightDStroyer]

You are taking a mission which can get you a court Marshall whatever happens in a crisis scenario. F-16s has what type of rounds? The caliber is very high? Fuel is carried in the wings and if you hit the tail the plane could fall like a rock. Hitting an engine with one round could blow the wing if I am not mistaken.

It is a very difficult decision.

We need to work on homeland security our airport staff need to be alert and vigilant. Every American airport should have a military substation. We do not need to be paranoid about this (that is also a mistake which leads to other). Offensively there are issues that need to be addressed. But our we should never detract for the belief that a solid defense
as the priority.

The world is dependent on the United States just as this world is dependent upon the survival of Europe, all of Africa, all of South America, Australia the Orient and as well those that live in Antarctica.

This is one world it is called Earth and all of us live in it. Look we can say the wars are stupid because in actuality they are wars about wars about wars. That fact has not changed the body count. The priority in this snare is to change the body count. And when it comes down to who makes the decision. Trying to change peoples religion is not going make the body count go down. That has been proven beyond and shadow of doubt.

What are your thought?


PS: There is one more thing we need MD, more resources.

Originally posted by Toltec
PS: There is one more thing we need MD, more resources.

We could *have* more resources if we all just stopped paying taxes...

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer

Originally posted by Toltec
PS: There is one more thing we need MD, more resources.

We could *have* more resources if we all just stopped paying taxes...

Well, it's easy. Stop votting for the left !

Originally posted by clive The west as long been wanting the remove Islam from this world for many centuries...

So you think, huh? Well, I'm accepting bets as to what will happen *first*; Whether the American citizens band together to oust the corruption & restructure the government...Or the government declares martial law & *enslaves or eliminates* the majority of its own citizens.


[Edited on 4-11-2002 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by clive

The west as long been wanting the remove Islam from this world for many centuries.

Yeah, and Islam don't want to remove all others religion from our world may be ?


Originally posted by clive

This War that we are all facing is neither about religion nor terrorism it's about domination of the world by a super power The United States of AMERICA.


Bha, if it's true, it's better to live under a " Pax Americana " than a " Pax Franchie " or a " Pax Chinese " !

Originally posted by clive

" To obtain peace we must have war" The Words of a U.S President Guess which one.

Carter ? Clinton ? Roosevelt ?

I'm, sorry, did I miss anything? I just got back in from a hard night of slaughtering Catholics and Satanists. Would have bagged me to Mormons but they had 15-speed bikes and....
Seriously, where have you seen Christians slaughtering others because of their beliefs?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Seriously, where have you seen Christians slaughtering others because of their beliefs?

A Christians cannot kill anyone. So, when he do it, he's not a Christian anymore. He's just a former Christian or a so-called Christians.

Back up and regroup, U-P, a Christian can kill someone, and it is a sin to murder. But murder is a sin, and no sin is to great that the blood of Christ can't wash. He isn't a former Christian anymore than a Christian that commits any other sin is a former Christian. However, it isn't part of Christianity teaching to kill others for not accepting Christ. we are to introduce the non-believer to Christ, plant the seed, and then allow the Holy Spirit to do his job. We don't know what the situation is or what the person has to overcome. We don't even know if the person will ever accept the gift, but that isn't our job. And it cerainly isn't our job to kill the person.

Th shall not kill !

Under this commandment, there were these add-on.

Except commies, atheists, free-mason, gays, leftists, nazis.

TC, Christians have killed millions. Crusades, Inqusitions, trials, and other wars. But lately, in past hundred years, White Knights of Christianity had a few lynchings, KKK some,(they Catholic, so not really Christians, since Christians never rape little alter boys) and the extreme who assasinate doctors or blow up abortion clinics.

Just putting this up.

Millions ???? Why not billions ? Or trillions ?

They didn't kill millions of peoples.

Anyway, not on a voluntary base. Of course, when former Westerners " discovered " new continent, they "gave " news diseases to local peoples and many of them died, but they didn't do it on purpose.

They had many disease, but they didn't know that their diseases were deadly for the natives.

Then how do you explain that the so-called Christian leaders of this country *intentionally* gave smallpox-infested blankets to those Indians during the colonization phase of this country?

The first recorded case of the US government using biological warfare...That counts for quite a bit of people killed, though not probably "millions".



[Edited on 7-11-2002 by MidnightDStroyer]

The ones who did such acts weren't Christians! They were
led by Satan! The Inqusitions were never lead by Christians
they were lead by the Spanish! We know what the Spanish are,
Hispanics, sinners! Then the trials, the witches desereved
to be burnt! They didn't follow God, and others shall follow
them! The Native Americans didn't believe in God, they were
just as evil and sinners as the others! There is no wrong in
killing sinners, for the thou shalt not kill is for killing the
good people in this world. God has told me so. Sorry, but I
shall pray for the ones who want it. For some here are so against
god they don't even want to be saved.

Gee TOT I am American Indian if you could get away with it would you try to kill me?

Maybe he should try killing himself. I'm pretty sure somewhere in his family tree is a non-white person.