Bible god or Satan, who's killed more people?

Originally posted by truthseeka
SK, that added nothing to my question. Bible god still killed a ton of people, according to the bible. Satan killed none, as far as I can tell. But, I guess not even a god is above being corrupted by a ton of power...

I was attempting to answer your question from a theological standpoint and not a Mortal Kombat II standpoint. I apologise for wasting your time.

Originally posted by SKMDC1

Originally posted by truthseeka
SK, that added nothing to my question. Bible god still killed a ton of people, according to the bible. Satan killed none, as far as I can tell. But, I guess not even a god is above being corrupted by a ton of power...

I was attempting to answer your question from a theological standpoint and not a Mortal Kombat II standpoint. I apologise for wasting your time.

No worries.

Your fellow Christians (assuming you are one) also failed to answer my question. Instead of talking about wrapping your mind around the Bible or how Bible god can do whatever he wants, try simply answering the question without a lot of fluff.

Who killed more people? A direct answer will suffice. I'm not singling you out; this one is for QA and dbrandt as well.

[edit on 13-6-2006 by truthseeka]

[edit on 13-6-2006 by truthseeka]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Hmm, If Satan (the opponent) is just an aspect of mankind, mankinds Shadow if you will, then why is it's opposition (god) not just considered an aspect of mankind as well? Why is God a literal being, while Satan is a figurative being? Wouldn't it stand to reason that if satan is just an aspect of man, then god would be the opposite aspect of man?

My thoughts, exactly.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Who killed more people? A direct answer will suffice. I'm not singling you out; this one is for QA and dbrandt as well.

Well, to answer this accurately, from the biblegod standpoint would take far too long and I don't have that kind of time--especially to prove a point which means nothing to me, in the way that it might mean to those who feel it is a point needing defense. Mainly because, as I said, the bible doesn't justify or prove anything to me or anyone else.

And as far as death and life is concerned--I don't see it as most people do, at all. So my counting the bible's death count would seem to me to be foolishness.

BUT I can answer directly from my heart, and it doesn't really contradict the bible but it's not a body count, either. I hope it is sufficient, because really there is no answer as far as justifying anything at all--personally I think there is no possibility to make sense of anything from the point of looking at the bible literally (as would be necessary for a body count. (IMO) However, maybe if I run out of things to do I will. Because, in a way, it intrigues me, just on a statistical level.

Enough of my BS.

My answer is:

God. He has killed everyone who ever lived.

God has killed not only every one who is in the bible, but everyone in the world who has ever been born.

By giving us life, we are destined to die.

Straight up facts that I cannot change or even explain to the satisfaction of someone who sees physical death as something bad instead of what I think it really is:

Finally getting out of hell.

No one is going to hell because we are already there!!!! Not that my life sucks, I love life and I have a very good life and people I love and I really have it better than most, if you take financial prosperity out of the picture--and I have had that, too, but don't miss it now.

I know that what we call life is the only hell there is or ever was. Truly.

Originally posted by truthseeka
I'm not singling you out; this one is for QA and dbrandt as well.

Well I'm going to think this through and use a verse from the Bible I just remembered. God gave mankind their life. Adam and Eve's(maybe only Adam's) disobedience brought about death.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; and so death passed to all men, because all sinned.

It appears from this verse that it is neither God nor satan. It appears that sin has killed more people, as a matter of fact all people who have died have been killed by sin.

Hey, thanks for asking the question, I learned something.

So the answer is: blame it all on Adam?

One man instead of God or men as a race or anything else?

Then we must blame the snake and that takes us back to what Truthseeka initially said and that is that satan isn't so bad and never killed anyone.

It was Adam. Not you not me but Adam.

Okay.

So, how many?

Originally posted by queenannie38
Okay.

So, how many?

The answer would be 100%.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Your fellow Christians (assuming you are one) also failed to answer my question.

No. I did answer your question. The fact you don't like or don't understand the answer doesn't negate the fact it was answered.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Instead of talking about wrapping your mind around the Bible or how Bible god can do whatever he wants, try simply answering the question without a lot of fluff.

Like explain quantum physics without a lot of math? Yeah. Like I say, you don't want an answer.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Who killed more people? A direct answer will suffice. I'm not singling you out; this one is for QA and dbrandt as well.

Bible God has killed NO people. Satan has killed NO people. The score is 0 to 0. There's your answer without any "fluff".

Bible God has killed NO people.

God directly kills people in the bible. He sends bolts of lightening to kill people that say his secret name. And he orders the deaths of entire tribes.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Bible God has killed NO people.

God directly kills people in the bible. He sends bolts of lightening to kill people that say his secret name. And he orders the deaths of entire tribes.

I'm sorry. I can't explain further because this thread is a "no fluff zone". Bible God has killed NO people. Trust me.

Originally posted by SKMDC1
Satan is simply the personification of evil in mankind. The question doesn't make any sense.

The bible does not say that.

it's still a drop in the bucket to the amount of death caused throughout history by the evil of man.

Agreed. But, god has killed more people than Satan, either by directly killing them or by ordering his followers, in the bible, to kill. And a siginificant portion of that 'man killing man' death is the result of religion not directly commanded by god.

because this thread is a "no fluff zone".

This is BTS. As long as you aren't going off topic, you're not doing anything wrong. I don't understand how you can say that god hasn't killed anyone. Please explain.

God killed NO one. A lot of people have been killed in his name though.

Originally posted by Panzeroth
God killed NO one. A lot of people have been killed in his name though.

According to your personal opinion or are you talking about 'biblegod?'

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me:
I kill, and I make alive;
I wound, and I heal:
neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
(Deuteronomy 32:39 KJV)

The bible shows that biblegod kills and freely admits to the fact.

Originally posted by dbrandt
The answer would be 100%.

Sin is not a person or a thing. It is an action. Did you not say that, yourself? I think it was you.

How can an action kill men and be worthy of blame? Not that blame is ever correct, but that's what we're discussing.

Who sins? Sin? Doesn't make sense.

Adam sinned. So we follow suit. So either we kill ourselves and by saying that we take it out of God's hand into our own.

Is God not a faithful Creator? More faithful than any man?

Originally posted by queenannie38
Sin is not a person or a thing.

Actually I was being a little sarcastic in my last post to this thread.

Sin brought death. So Adam's action brought in sin. satan's lie(temptation) brought about Adam's doubt or at least surfaced it. So it's kind of a deep question. Sin brought death into the universe. Disobedience brought in sin. satan was the first to rebel.

The thing is satan doesn't have the power to kill, all he can do is tempt people to sin. We choose to sin.

Along with the verse you quoted there is one in Deuteronomy(if I remember right) where God takes responsibility for someone who is made blind. Then in the NT someone asks Jesus who's sin made a certain man blind. Jesus reply was he wasn't blind because of sin, he was born blind so that Jesus could heal him at that moment and that act was used by Jesus to prove who He was, God.

Another thing to remember is that the physical body is what dies. The soul and spirit don't "die". Someday everyone will have a resurrection. Some to everlasting life some to the 2nd death. But even that is an existance for eternity.

So the answer is death is a result of sin. satan can't kill anyone. Man's actions result in deaths. Man's actions are a result of rejecting God. God decides the moment a life is over. If someone was bound and determined to kill someone else God may allow that to happen, or He could and has stopped it before.

The author is asking for an answer that is more complicated than 2 choices. This won't satisfy that person because they want God blamed.

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by Panzeroth
God killed NO one. A lot of people have been killed in his name though.

According to your personal opinion or are you talking about 'biblegod?'

According to history and fact

Originally posted by Panzeroth

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by Panzeroth
God killed NO one. A lot of people have been killed in his name though.

According to your personal opinion or are you talking about 'biblegod?'

According to history and fact

Cite your sources, then, please.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by SKMDC1
Satan is simply the personification of evil in mankind. The question doesn't make any sense.

The bible does not say that.

But it doesn't not not say that either. If you're going to argue this point from the standpoint of a literal translation of an ancient religious text then I can't help you.

Originally posted by Nygdan

it's still a drop in the bucket to the amount of death caused throughout history by the evil of man.

Agreed. But, god has killed more people than Satan, either by directly killing them or by ordering his followers, in the bible, to kill. And a siginificant portion of that 'man killing man' death is the result of religion not directly commanded by god.

You're wrong. God has killed no one. He's incapable of killing as much as he's incapable of enjoying a strawberry milkshake with a bent straw. He's a timeless omniscient being and trying to understand him like he's a first person shooter game character is a little silly to say the least.

Originally posted by Nygdan

because this thread is a "no fluff zone".

This is BTS. As long as you aren't going off topic, you're not doing anything wrong. I don't understand how you can say that god hasn't killed anyone. Please explain.

I just did. God is the cause of the Universe. Life, Death, Taxes. He's personally killed no one. God isn't the shooter. God is there, but you can't do a "body count" from text written over 2000 years ago about spirituality by a people that practically spoke in allegory and parable. God isn't a person. He can't kill anyone. He can inspire people to kill. They can "think" they are killing in the name of God, but it doesn't mean they are. It means that man is killing man because he believes his god wants him to. You can't blame God for that. As for striking people down with lightening. Again, you're reading parable and allegory as literal events. That's obviously a difference you and I have with our interpretation of ancient religious texts.

It seems to me people dwell so much on the negative things done in the name of God that we rarely hear or see things illustrating the positive things done in the name of God.

The ARP Presbyterian Church in the US (an evangelical denomination) has had a hospital running in Sahiwal, Pakistan since 1915. They went to the most hostile environment a Christain group could possibly find and what did they do? Built a hospital to help the sick. I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion, but I would like people to recognize that if you blame all the bad things done in God's name on God, then you must also give credit to God for all the good things done in his name. How many muslim lives has Bible God saved at that hospital in Pakistan? If you say, it's not God saving those lives it's Doctors and Nurses doing their job who just happen to be Christian, and yet you hold God personally responsible for Holy Wars and Crusades, then you're being at least a little hypocritical.

My perspective is many many things are done in the name of religion, some good some horrible. But when it comes down to it, man is responsible for his actions whether he blames/credits God/Satan/UFOs or whatever.

Originally posted by dbrandt
Sin brought death. So Adam's action brought in sin. satan's lie (temptation) brought about Adam's doubt or at least surfaced it. .

To lie or to tempt are two different things. Neither action of ‘satan’ made satan accountable for Adam’s decision. If Adam had not have succumbed to the temptation, then would we credit satan?

So it's kind of a deep question. [/ quote]Only if you’re digging down unnecessarily in order to find the answer which won’t make things out of line with what you prefer to think.

Sin brought death into the universe.

You mean the Earth, don’t you? You don’t know that there is death elsewhere in the universe. Let’s keep this as simple as possible, because a simple answer will satisfy the question—it truly is simple enough.

Disobedience brought in sin. satan was the first to rebel.

No, Adam rebelled. Satan does what God says.

The thing is satan doesn't have the power to kill, all he can do is tempt people to sin. We choose to sin.

You are contradicting yourself like crazy. Talking yourself into a circle. Who sins?

Along with the verse you quoted there is one in Deuteronomy(if I remember right) where God takes responsibility for someone who is made blind. Then in the NT someone asks Jesus who's sin made a certain man blind. Jesus reply was he wasn't blind because of sin, he was born blind so that Jesus could heal him at that moment and that act was used by Jesus to prove who He was, God.

Well, it says nothing about Jesus proving himself to be God—but otherwise what is your point with this? I know that God works this way.

Another thing to remember is that the physical body is what dies.

Fertilizer, compost, even perhaps fish food.

The soul and spirit don't "die".

The soul does die. The spirit is God’s, and returns to whence it came. But who told you our soul doesn’t die? If it didn’t, then what is ‘salvation’ for? Salvation is for your soul.

Someday everyone will have a resurrection. Some to everlasting life some to the 2nd death. But even that is an existance for eternity.

That is nonsense that you got from some human being, without thorough investigation. You don’t think you will have the second death so you don’t care to see what it means. I’m going to start a thread about this, maybe.

So the answer is death is a result of sin. satan can't kill anyone. Man's actions result in deaths. Man's actions are a result of rejecting God. God decides the moment a life is over. If someone was bound and determined to kill someone else God may allow that to happen, or He could and has stopped it before.

None of that makes sense, all bunched up like that. What are you trying to say? Sin is not anything but an action or state of mind—how can it bring about death for a living organism? And you have two answers to choose from…God or satan. Which is it?

The author is asking for an answer that is more complicated than 2 choices.

No, it is actually not even requiring a choice. You may have to make the answer complicated in order to please your own ideas and their ideas, but what is wrong with the plain old truth? Truth is usually pretty simple to put forth

This won't satisfy that person because they want God blamed.

And you don’t want to ‘blame’ God, right? Well, God doesn’t need you to blame anyone—God is a faithful creator which simply means He is responsible for His creation. All of it. Defending God in order to defend your idea in God is not helping anyone.