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Bible god or Satan, who's killed more people?

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posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Only if you’re digging down unnecessarily in order to find the answer which won’t make things out of line with what you prefer to think.


Isn't that just a negative way of saying someone bases their beliefs on their own observations and experience rather than what someone else tells them?




posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 01:49 PM
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oops my bad
double post

[edit on 6/16/2006 by queenannie38]



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by SKMDC1

Originally posted by queenannie38
Only if you’re digging down unnecessarily in order to find the answer which won’t make things out of line with what you prefer to think.


Isn't that just a negative way of saying someone bases their beliefs on their own observations and experience rather than what someone else tells them?

No, not all.

But even if I had agreed with your assessment, your point isn't even relevant to this thread. Read the original post and see that it is not asking what we think, from within.

Truthseeka asked what the bible said, not your heart. So either say what the bible says or don't. Not every discussion about God and spiritual matters is about personal opinion vs another's--I wish none of them were, unless just an opinion sprinkled here and there for flavor and stated as opinion. But that doesn't happen too much, even here at ATS. :shk:



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
No, not all.


How is it different?


Originally posted by queenannie38
But even if I had agreed with your assessment, your point isn't even relevant to this thread. Read the original post and see that it is not asking what we think, from within.

Truthseeka asked what the bible said, not your heart.


There are many who would argue they are one in the same.



Originally posted by queenannie38
So either say what the bible says or don't.


That's like trying to get a math lesson out of poetry. The Bible isn't a math textbook or even a history textbook. It's ancient spiritual writing more akin to poetry to anything else and your "heart" is required when reading it. Do you understand what I'm saying? Can you draw me a map of ancient Sumeria by reading "Gilgamesh"? Of course not. Can you give me troop movements and casualty rates based on "The Song of Roland"? Of course not.



Originally posted by queenannie38
Not every discussion about God and spiritual matters is about personal opinion vs another's--


Of course it is. Otherwise it wouldn't be spirituality, it would be science and history. There ARE NO concrete answers to spiritual questions. Those that think there are usually end up drinking the poison kool-aid and trying to hitch a ride on a comet.

I fear that you won't find out any concrete answers about the nature of God until it's too late to share with the rest of us.



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 05:14 PM
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The entrance of sin into mankind initiated death. God is in charge of death.



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 06:35 PM
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Right on dbrandt! Now that's a direct and strong answer. I like you.

God is responsible and we are accountable.



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by SKMDC1

Originally posted by queenannie38
No, not all.


How is it different?
That is something that you would have to understand on your own. I'm sorry, but that's just truth.



Originally posted by queenannie38
Read the original post and see that it is not asking what we think, from within.

Truthseeka asked what the bible said, not your heart.


There are many who would argue they are one in the same.

Well, then address that to Truthseeka, who started this thread. I'm not here to argue. There is no cause for it.




Originally posted by queenannie38
So either say what the bible says or don't.


That's like trying to get a math lesson out of poetry. The Bible isn't a math textbook or even a history textbook. It's ancient spiritual writing more akin to poetry to anything else and your "heart" is required when reading it. Do you understand what I'm saying? Can you draw me a map of ancient Sumeria by reading "Gilgamesh"? Of course not. Can you give me troop movements and casualty rates based on "The Song of Roland"? Of course not.

Why are you telling me this? Read my posts on ATS, I know this already. I didn't ask the question, Truthseeka did.



Of course it is. Otherwise it wouldn't be spirituality, it would be science and history. There ARE NO concrete answers to spiritual questions. Those that think there are usually end up drinking the poison kool-aid and trying to hitch a ride on a comet.

Nothing is divided or separate. Science is how we observe God and history is an account of how our lessons have been playing out and also a sort of progress report.
And the bible is the instruction manual we each get. Some read, it some don't. But unless you are going to discuss what the manual says instead of how you go about things, at your discretion, then it is an fight to force your opinion on another. We can't learn that way.


I fear that you won't find out any concrete answers about the nature of God until it's too late to share with the rest of us.
I fear that you have no idea how foolish you sound.

[edit on 6/16/2006 by queenannie38]



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Right on dbrandt! Now that's a direct and strong answer. I like you.

God is responsible and we are accountable.


We are responsible and accountable for our actions and sins.

God is in control of our length of days and when they end in physical death. After that there is eternal life for the saved and eternal seperation(the 2nd death) for the unsaved.



posted on Jun, 17 2006 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Why are you telling me this?


Because you said this to me:


Originally posted by queenannie38
So either say what the bible says or don't.


If you want to be an unbiased outside observer that's fine, but once you jump in and start ordering people about, then you have to be ready to answer for it.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I fear that you have no idea how foolish you sound.


Well, that's the risk one takes when entering into discussions with people who have no interest in the answers.



posted on Jun, 17 2006 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by SKMDC1
Well, that's the risk one takes when entering into discussions with people who have no interest in the answers.


You are not answering the question that was asked. That is my entire point. And that's
it.



posted on Jun, 17 2006 @ 03:42 PM
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With God killing animals, isn't that a sign of a Serial Murderer? The World Flood proves God is a Serial Killer

Late Bed Wetting... If god created Earth then Earth is his bed and he flooded it.

Playing with fire... God has rained hellfire and brimstone down from the sky.

Torture/kill animals... God Killed all but two of every species.

So, not only do we have written evidence of God killing billions but we have the early signs of a Serial Killer.



posted on Jun, 18 2006 @ 08:38 AM
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Take this example: you have a son. He will ask you to buy him a bicycle when he´s old enough for that; if you have the money much likely you will buy him the bicycle so he can play with the other kids in the block. You also know that sooner or later your son will fall from the bicycle and hurt himself (happens with every single kid in the world that rides a bicycle).

You know when you are purchasing the bicycle that he will hurt himself; does that make you a bad father ? No. Only by falling from the bike he will know that next time he shouldnt ride it so fast.

Humans in many situations only understand whats wrong with pain; dont ask me why, we are just like that. God gets into this and thru some pain, you actually understand and give importance to things you never thinked about. Associating the evil and stupidity of mankind to God and blame it for the death of people doesnt make much sense. Just read queen annie post on how many died without the so called God hand and you will get it pretty easy.



posted on Jun, 18 2006 @ 04:29 PM
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Mike Phil, your very relevant example reminded me of this parable that a dear friend of mine told me:


There was a father who had a young son. They lived on a very busy street, and the father was concerned about his young son’s curiosity to venture too close to it. He told him that there were dangers near the street, and that he did not want him to ever cross it alone. Now the father knew that this would only tantalize the child TO CROSS THE STREET! So he had a plan.

Well, as you can guess, the next day, the boy headed right for the busy thoroughfare! When he crossed it, there was a big tree on the other side of the road. As he approached it, a huge man, in a black mask and cape, jumped out from behind the tree! It scared the little boy so bad that he ran lickety-split back across the road, crying out his father’s name! When he got to the house, his father was waiting for him there, and met him with open arms. The little boy was never so happy to embrace his dad. His dad admonished him gently, and told him that when he was older [and more mature], he could not only cross that street, but that he would be able to go anywhere that he wanted. A few years later, when his son had gotten a little older, the father went to his closet (with his son), and showed him the cape and mask that were hanging there! They both had a good laugh!



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 04:20 PM
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Yeah, it works like that; its called humankind
But people in this crazy atempts to blame God about everything get into some Homer Simpson type of arguments.



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by Mike Phil
Take this example: you have a son. He will ask you to buy him a bicycle when he´s old enough for that; if you have the money much likely you will buy him the bicycle so he can play with the other kids in the block. You also know that sooner or later your son will fall from the bicycle and hurt himself (happens with every single kid in the world that rides a bicycle).

You know when you are purchasing the bicycle that he will hurt himself; does that make you a bad father ? No. Only by falling from the bike he will know that next time he shouldnt ride it so fast.

Humans in many situations only understand whats wrong with pain; dont ask me why, we are just like that. God gets into this and thru some pain, you actually understand and give importance to things you never thinked about. Associating the evil and stupidity of mankind to God and blame it for the death of people doesnt make much sense. Just read queen annie post on how many died without the so called God hand and you will get it pretty easy.


Please.

Buying your kid a bike when you know they'll fall off is a FAR cry from creating them and later destroying them, when you knew beforehand they would piss you off. THAT makes you a bad creator.

And, where's the cat who is hurt when the kid falls off the bike, despite having nothing at all to do with you and your kid?



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 05:04 AM
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What if it's not about destruction or anything at all like what is assumed?

What if the intention of biblegod is to not destroy the world but renew it? What if bible readers are reading it from the wrong perspective and it's not about severe unfair punishments but about ultimate fairness and generosity to the whole world?

Such as a literal Utopia? But we had to die once, twice, maybe three times in order to learn enough to be a self-governing adult? Would death be so bad, then, if it were more like just trading in an old jalopy in order to get a brand new Mustang?



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
Please.

Buying your kid a bike when you know they'll fall off is a FAR cry from creating them and later destroying them, when you knew beforehand they would piss you off. THAT makes you a bad creator.


So you suggest putting kids around a bubble so they wont hurt themselves at all ? Because according to your line of toughts if you as a parent before hand know that your child will suffer superficial pain, you are doubtless a bad parent. I know you are applying this to religion and not taking literally but think about it. And think about how many parents buy this bycicle to see their kids smile even knowing they may cry sooner or later. RCC and other organisations gave everyone the idea that God is 1000% uncapable of inflict pain into humans (unless you dont believe in God according to them, but thats a diff topic). What if God is actually capable of it and actually people benefit from it ? Now, people.. dont come with stuff like "I broke my leg, God taught me something!" You may not agree but please be reasonable



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 08:25 PM
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No, it's more like giving birth to a child, then a few yeas later, when you find out he did someting to upset you, you kill him,and have another kid. That's more what I see. Then again, I don't believe in that giant bearded white guy anyway.



posted on Jun, 25 2006 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by Yumi
With God killing animals, isn't that a sign of a Serial Murderer? The World Flood proves God is a Serial Killer



The sacrifice of animals was a foreshdowing of Jesus death in the future. It was also to give a visual lesson to people.

Sin seperates us from God. That sin has to be dealt with. Jesus was coming to take care of the problem. In the mean time a lamb, etc. was sacrificed. So you have this innocent lamb that you owned, the best one you have, with worth. It's out running around in the field, playing. Now you take this lamb to the priest and he lays it on the alter. He then tells you to put your hands on the lamb. Then he explains to you that you have sinned against God and sin is serious. He says you should be dying for your sin. But God who is rich in mercy has provided a substitute, this lamb. With your hands on the lamb the priest tells you that your sins have now been transferred to this innocent lamb. The lamb lays there still and a knife is used to shed the blood of the lamb and death comes to the lamb.

Then now is the important part. When you heard what the priest said and now you see this lamb that was running around this morning, lying there bloodied and motionless, never to live again ever, you were not to walk away from there the same person. You were supposed to have the deepest part of your heart touched like never before. You were to realize that that lamb was dead because of me. My sin caused it's death. You were to believe that. You were to walk away a changed person, never ever ever to view sin the same way again. You were to view it like God sees it. It's horrible and ugly and awful and heinous.

Now sometime in those people's future, our past, another substitute was coming to die in your place. That substitute was and is Jesus. Your sin and mine was transferred to Him. He became bloodied and beaten and battered in our place. Now we are expected to believe that. We are not too live the old way anymore. We are to have a different attitude toward sin.

If you saw the "Passion of the Christ" the images of that movie are helpful to realize what Jesus did for you and me. But there is one problem. After all the beatings the actor still looked like a person. There is a verse in the Bible that tells us something sobering.

In real life, when the actual beatings and whippings took place and they hung the real Jesus on the cross we are told this. That when the world got through abusing Him, He no longer looked like a human. Can you imagine that, He took so much punishment at the hands of sinful mankind(the same sinful mankind that He was saving) that He no longer looked like a person. He was so bloodied and beaten and swollen that He was unrecognizable. Another part in the Bible tells us that so much flesh was ripped away from his body as He was whipped that He could count all His bones(meaning His bones were exposed).

Now that image is supposed to change us. After thinking about and realizing that, we are to never view sin lightly again. And when you believein what Jesus did for you, you will never ever to be the same person again.

[edit on 25-6-2006 by dbrandt]



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by Mike Phil


So you suggest putting kids around a bubble so they wont hurt themselves at all ? Because according to your line of toughts if you as a parent before hand know that your child will suffer superficial pain, you are doubtless a bad parent. I know you are applying this to religion and not taking literally but think about it. And think about how many parents buy this bycicle to see their kids smile even knowing they may cry sooner or later. RCC and other organisations gave everyone the idea that God is 1000% uncapable of inflict pain into humans (unless you dont believe in God according to them, but thats a diff topic).


Look at your words here.

SUPERFICIAL pain. YOU said it. If you can equate SUPERFICIAL pain with drowning, being ripped apart by bears, having an angel strike you down, or being roasted by fire and brimstone with that, there's no point in discussing anything else. Not to mention eternal torture on TOP of that!

Rasobasi has the right idea, but I'll take your analogy further. Instead of 1 kid, how about MILLIONS of kids?



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