Official: Evidence points to unjustified killings by Marines

CNN

About 2 dozen Iraqi civilians killed in November.

Investigators believe that their criminal investigation into the deaths of about two dozen Iraqi civilians points toward a conclusion that Marines Committed Unprovoked MURDERS, a senior defense official said Friday.

The Marine Corps initially reported that the deaths were caused by a roadside bomb and ensuing firefight with insurgents.

According to a congressional aide, lawmakers were told in a briefing Thursday that it appears as many as two dozen civilians were killed. And they were told that the investigation will find that "it will be clear that this was not the result of an accident or a normal combat situation."

It looks like that US Marines did actually commit unjustified murder - or better yet, slaughter of 24 Iraqi civilans. What exactly happened, I guess we will never find out, but as usual the first move by the USMC was to report, that those deaths to Iraqi civilans were actually caused by a Roadisde bomb - in short, they LIED.

Just one more evidence, prooving that we have NO idea what is going on in Iraq, since any of the official reports might be false or missleading - and months later it turns out to be a whole different story.

Isolated Incident - or Everyday event?

You be the Judge...

US Air Strike Kills Iraqi Family of 12
Behind the Steel Curtain
US Raids Iraqi House, Killing Family of as many as 13
Iraqi residents say bodies in video from US raid
US Troops accused of mosque massacre

[edit on 27/5/06 by Souljah]

Thats how wars work mate.. everything is beautiful on paper, but reality is pretty different as you know.

ust one more evidence, prooving that we have NO idea what is going on in Iraq, since any of the official reports might be false or missleading - and months later it turns out to be a whole different story.

So, there was an investigation that will probobly lead to the convictions of these Maries and you still say "we dont know whats going on". Wouldnt lack of an investigation point to that conclusion?

At least we care when our soldiers mess up and do something wrong. I dont see any investigations in to the mass amounts of civilians killed everyday by these terrorists.

The culprits will be prosecuted if crimes were indeed committed and the US Marines are taking the event very seriously.

WASHINGTON (May 25, 2006) -- Gen. Michael W. Hagee, commandant of the Marine Corps, will address Marine officers and enlisted men and women in a series of events inside and outside the U.S. over the next several weeks.

The purpose of his visits will be to reinforce the ideals, values and standards for which Marines have been known for more than 200 years. Reflecting his personal concern over recent serious allegations about actions of Marines in combat, the Commandant’s remarks will focus on the value and meaning of honor, courage, and commitment and how these core values are epitomized by most Marines in their day-to-day actions – both in and out of combat.
Source

Initial reports are not ever very solid to begin with, even in domestic murder investigations, and obviously a thorough investigation was undertaken. Occurrences such as these are horribly unfortunate, criminal and unnecessary but to believe that wars will ever become or can be fully sanitized without incident will always end in disappointment.



mg

Originally posted by missed_gear
The culprits will be prosecuted if crimes were indeed committed and the US Marines are taking the event very seriously.

And they SHOULD take it seriously. It is one thing having civilian collateral deaths......and a completely different thing to TARGET civilians. If they did this they are no better than the scumbags strapping bombs on themselves and targeting civilians, and should be shot just like them.

But at least they are being held accountable....I must have missed the part where the insurgents are putting there people on trial for the same thing

Originally posted by Souljah

Isolated Incident - or Everyday event?

Isloated Incident no doubt about it.

Here is an
Everyday Event

[edit on 5/27/2006 by shots]

Witnesses to Iraqi civilian deaths say Marines killed in retaliation

Witnesses to the slaying of 24 Iraqi civilians by U.S. Marines in the western town of Al-Hadithah say the Americans shot men, women and children at close range in retaliation for the death of a Marine lance corporal in a roadside bombing.

Aws Fahmi, a resident who said he watched and listened from his home as Marines went from house to house killing members of three families, said he heard his neighbor across the street, Younis Salim Khafif, plead in English for the lives of himself and his family. "I heard Younis speaking to the Americans, saying: "I am a friend. I am good, '' said Fahmi. "But they killed him, and his wife and daughters.''

The 24 Iraqi civilians slain Nov. 19 included children and the women who were trying to shield them, witnesses told a Washington Post correspondent in Al-Hadithah this week. The girls killed inside Khafif's house alone were aged 14, 10, 5, 3 and 1, according to death certificates.

Shooting 1-year old Babies will surely increase win the Hearts and Minds of Iraqi people...

Murtha: Marines killed civilians "in cold blood"

A senior House Democrat with close ties to the military claimed Wednesday that U.S. Marines wantonly killed innocent Iraqi civilians, including women and children, in an early morning raid last November, buttressing a March report by Time.

"Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood," said Jack Murtha of Pennsylvania, a decorated Marine Corps veteran who served in Vietnam and is among the most influential Democratic voices on military matters. "This is going to be a very, very bad thing for the United States."

Cold Blooded Murderers then.

Well, let's check out the Official USMC response to this story:

Collateral Damage or Civilian Massacre in Haditha?

The incident seemed like so many others from this war, the kind of tragedy that has become numbingly routine amid the daily reports of violence in Iraq. On the morning of Nov. 19, 2005, a roadside bomb struck a humvee carrying Marines from Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, on a road near Haditha, a restive town in western Iraq. The bomb killed Lance Corporal Miguel (T.J.) Terrazas, 20, from El Paso, Texas. The next day a Marine communique from Camp Blue Diamond in Ramadi reported that Terrazas and 15 Iraqi civilians were killed by the blast and that "gunmen attacked the convoy with small-arms fire," prompting the Marines to return fire, killing eight insurgents and wounding one other. The Marines from Kilo Company held a memorial service for Terrazas at their camp in Haditha. They wrote messages like "T.J., you were a great friend. I'm going to miss seeing you around" on smooth stones and piled them in a funeral mound. And the war moved on.

Err, which GUNMAN would that be?

The 14, 10, 5, 3 and 1-Year old Children?

Yep, you can get a pretty interesting picture about ALL other official Communiques coming from US, UK or any other Coalition Armed Forces in Iraq or Afganistan.

Originally posted by Souljah

The 14, 10, 5, 3 and 1-Year old Children?

Yep, you can get a pretty interesting picture about ALL other official Communiques coming from US, UK or any other Coalition Armed Forces in Iraq or Afganistan.

Interesting!!! Also nothing compared to 27 that were killed by insurgents.

Bombing in Iraq Kills Mostly Children

Yet you complain about 5 :shk:

Originally posted by shots
Interesting!!! Also nothing compared to 27 that were killed by insurgents.

I forgot already:

Who Are The Good Guys in Iraq?

I haven't seen you critizing the US marines for killing 24 Civilans - so you agree with their Actions?

Bombing in Iraq Kills Mostly Children

Yet you complain about 5 :shk:

According to IBC 24,865 civilians were reported killed in the first two years - Women and children accounted for almost 20% of all civilian deaths; which makes 4973 Victims. And if US-led forces killed 37% of civilian victims, that means they are responsible for 1946 Woman and Children Dead. Over half (53%) of all civilian deaths involved explosive devices - but Air strikes caused most (64%) of the explosives deaths, which is the Majority.

Yet you are not complaining at all...

Originally posted by Souljah
Yet you are not complaining at all...

Psst People Die in wars or didn't you know that?

Also allow me to point out once again that the figures used by IBC have been doubted by many. Hell as I recall last year you used their figures that claimed the total was over 100K or did you forget those numbers? Also can you explain the huge drop from last year.

Now if I were of the devious sort I would trot on over to Wki and change those figures to reflect numbers that I like.

Nah not my style but you get the drift. How do we know that it was not you that put up those inflated percentages, you are known to inflate things ya know

Originally posted by shots
Psst People Die in wars or didn't you know that?

Damn - and I thought that the was OVER, like the US president declared:

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Also allow me to point out once again that the figures used by IBC have been doubted by many.

By many - pro-war people?

Now if I were of the devious sort I would trot on over to Wki and change those figures to reflect numbers that I like.

Wiki is quoting the IBC, not making up the numbers for themselves.



Still no word of Criticism from you for these US Marines which murdered 24 Civilans in Cold Blood....

Originally posted by Souljah

Wiki is quoting the IBC, not making up the numbers for themselves.

Wiki does not quote anyone.

The whole site is user contributed

Carry on with your point trolling I am done here

Originally posted by shots

Wiki does not quote anyone.

WRONG!

IBC - A Dossier of Civilian Casualties in Iraq 2003–2005

"A Dossier on Civilian Casualties in Iraq, 2003-2005" is the first detailed account of all non-combatants reported killed or wounded during the first two years of the continuing conflict. The report, published by Iraq Body Count in association with Oxford Research Group, is based on comprehensive analysis of over 10,000 media reports published between March 2003 and March 2005.

Findings include:

Who was killed?

• 24,865 civilians were reported killed in the first two years.
  
• Women and children accounted for almost 20% of all civilian deaths.
  
• Baghdad alone recorded almost half of all deaths.

When did they die?

• 30% of civilian deaths occurred during the invasion phase before 1 May 2003.
  
• Post-invasion, the number of civilians killed was almost twice as high in year two (11,351) as in year one (6,215).

Who did the killing?

• US-led forces killed 37% of civilian victims.
  
• Anti-occupation forces/insurgents killed 9% of civilian victims.
  
• Post-invasion criminal violence accounted for 36% of all deaths.
  
• Killings by anti-occupation forces, crime and unknown agents have shown a steady rise over the entire period.

What was the most lethal weaponry?

• Over half (53%) of all civilian deaths involved explosive devices.
  
• Air strikes caused most (64%) of the explosives deaths.
  
• Children were disproportionately affected by all explosive devices but most severely by air strikes and unexploded ordnance (including cluster bomblets).

How many were injured?

• At least 42,500 civilians were reported wounded.
  
• The invasion phase caused 41% of all reported injuries.
  
• Explosive weaponry caused a higher ratio of injuries to deaths than small arms.
  
• The highest wounded-to-death ratio incidents occurred during the invasion phase.

Who provided the information?

• Mortuary officials and medics were the most frequently cited witnesses.
  
• Three press agencies provided over one third of the reports used.
  
• Iraqi journalists are increasingly central to the reporting work.

This is the Same Dossier as it is QUOTED in Wikipedia.

Want to go and compare the numbers and how the people at Wiki "Manipulated" with them?



Just Because you do not Like the Numbers presented, it does not mean that the Source is not Reliable...

[edit on 27/5/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Souljah

WRONG!

As Usual it went right over your head. That was more then likely the contributor that quoted the source not Wiki. Wiki is open source anyone can post there you me, the wiki webmaster and yes even Santa

Welcome to Wikipedia,
the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.
Wiki Homepage

Originally posted by shots
As Usual it went right over your head. That was more then likely the contributor that quoted the source not Wiki. Wiki is open source anyone can post there you me, the wiki webmaster and yes even Santa

I never said it is not an Open Source - but in this Case of IBC, you can clearly see that they did not "Manipulate" with any of the Numbers, they just Quoted the entire dossier, which appears on the IBC page.

Why is that so hard to understand?

And when talking about Wikipedia, which in your opinion is a NON-Reliable source, you might want to check this out:

BBC - Wikipedia survives research test

The free online resource Wikipedia is about as accurate on science as the Encyclopedia Britannica, a study shows.

The British journal Nature examined a range of scientific entries on both works of reference and found few differences in accuracy.

But it has been criticised for the correctness of entries, most recently over the biography of prominent US journalist John Seigenthaler.

BBC also a Non-Relible source?

I see - you are ONE with mister John Seigenthaler, right?

Originally posted by shots
Isloated Incident no doubt about it.

Keep thinking that. Meanwhile the rest of the world watches the US armed forces kill and torture for oil. Shame on you.

Originally posted by Souljah

CNN

About 2 dozen Iraqi civilians killed in November.

Investigators believe that their criminal investigation into the deaths of about two dozen Iraqi civilians points toward a conclusion that Marines Committed Unprovoked MURDERS, a senior defense official said Friday.

The Marine Corps initially reported that the deaths were caused by a roadside bomb and ensuing firefight with insurgents.

According to a congressional aide, lawmakers were told in a briefing Thursday that it appears as many as two dozen civilians were killed. And they were told that the investigation will find that "it will be clear that this was not the result of an accident or a normal combat situation."

It looks like that US Marines did actually commit unjustified murder - or better yet, slaughter of 24 Iraqi civilans. What exactly happened, I guess we will never find out, but as usual the first move by the USMC was to report, that those deaths to Iraqi civilans were actually caused by a Roadisde bomb - in short, they LIED.

Just one more evidence, prooving that we have NO idea what is going on in Iraq, since any of the official reports might be false or missleading - and months later it turns out to be a whole different story.

Isolated Incident - or Everyday event?

You be the Judge...

US Air Strike Kills Iraqi Family of 12
Behind the Steel Curtain
US Raids Iraqi House, Killing Family of as many as 13
Iraqi residents say bodies in video from US raid
US Troops accused of mosque massacre

[edit on 27/5/06 by Souljah]

Wow so now the marines are only what? 200,000 civillian murders behind the "freedom fighters" like Zarqawi?
And only what? 3-4 million behind saddam and crew?

Originally posted by ShazamsChampion
Wow so now the marines are only what? 200,000 civillian murders behind the "freedom fighters" like Zarqawi?

Errr - now where did you get those numbers? 200,000 killed by Zarqawi?

Please.

And when talking about mister Zarqawi, I have to add that I do not belive this man even exists - or if he does, he sure works hand in hand with the so-called "War on Terror". Yet another "Phantom SUPER-Terrorist" that always evades the Ultra-Powerful and Allmighty US War Machine with Supreme Technology. With Money, Technology and Determination you can FIND ANYBODY - if you want to ofcourse. And if they are Alive that is.

And only what? 3-4 million behind saddam and crew?

3-4 Million? Well I think you overreacted with the numbers. But if you are talking about Saddam regime and how many people he killed, do not forget to Add, how Iraq was such a BIG USA ALLY back in those days of fighting the Evil Iranian Islamic Revolution, and how USA used him to stop the spread of Iran. And when he was fighting the Iraq-Iran war, and killing his people, nobody even bothered to mention that to him, ey? As I recall mister Rumsfled was Shaking hands with him, as he was slaughtering the Kurds.

But that's another Story.

Originally posted by Souljah

Errr - now where did you get those numbers? 200,000 killed by Zarqawi?

Please.

And when talking about mister Zarqawi, I have to add that I do not belive this man even exists - or if he does, he sure works hand in hand with the so-called "War on Terror". Yet another "Phantom SUPER-Terrorist" that always evades the Ultra-Powerful and Allmighty US War Machine with Supreme Technology. With Money, Technology and Determination you can FIND ANYBODY - if you want to ofcourse. And if they are Alive that is.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Because its not as if men have evaded more intense manhunts for longer. You are aware of course there are Nazi war criminal who are still out there somewhere to this day?

3-4 Million? Well I think you overreacted with the numbers. But if you are talking about Saddam regime and how many people he killed, do not forget to Add, how Iraq was such a BIG USA ALLY back in those days of fighting the Evil Iranian Islamic Revolution, and how USA used him to stop the spread of Iran. And when he was fighting the Iraq-Iran war, and killing his people, nobody even bothered to mention that to him, ey? As I recall mister Rumsfled was Shaking hands with him, as he was slaughtering the Kurds.

But that's another Story.

Lessser of two evils. Its wasn't right just necessary, same reason we supported OBL when the soviets invaded Afghanistan.


Must be nice to live in a reality where you get to "doubt the existance" of any conflicting evidence.

Originally posted by ShazamsChampion
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Because its not as if men have evaded more intense manhunts for longer.

Errrrrr - whatever makes you happy.

Lessser of two evils. Its wasn't right just necessary, same reason we supported OBL when the soviets invaded Afghanistan.

Oh yes - to Preserve Democracy against the Evils of Communism, right?
Like in Many countries of South America during Cold War?

Must be nice to live in a reality where you get to "doubt the existance" of any conflicting evidence.

And it must be even nicer to create a Phantom Terrorist and then Hunt him Forever.

And it must be also nice to create an Endless War scenario too, ey?

War = Profit

Endless War = Endless Profit

Nice!