Congress passes funeral protest ban., page 6
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reply posted on 26-5-2006 @ 07:15 PM by wellwhatnow
I'm also a fan of Mill and I highly value my freedom of speech.

From a sociological perspective, society on the whole must have some rite associated with death. To undermine it is to undermine the fabric of society as it is usually understood. Whether the rite is a spiritual one or not, it will exist in every society as a general rule.

Each society also has it's own mores and norms. We don't audibly pass gas during a wedding if we can prevent it, we don't pick the nose of the person next to us on the bus, we don't deficate on public streets during our lunch hours. These are norms that help the people of our culture live side by side. It is also generally the norm that we shouldn't mock another's pain. It's cruel, it's rude, it's cowardly, and good people don't do it. It's a shame we would have to have any law to address this. Norms are so important that it is generally accepted that to display a lack of regard for the norms of one's own culture is indicative of a personality disorder.

I also must ask though, where was all the fuss when Phelps disrupted the funerals of gay people? No one proposed any laws (that I know of) when Phelps was celebrating the death of Mathew Shepard during Mathew's funeral. It's only when a soldier's funeral is disrupted that we see laws passed to deal with it. I begrudge the soldier nothing, I support our troops and their funerals should be left alone. However, a soldier is no more loved by his/her family than a gay person is by his/her family. As members of society we should all be allowed to perform some form of funeral rite in solemnity, whether or not we are soldiers.

I also find it interesting that when I protested President Bush, I was required to stay many miles away from him. He did not want his fund raiser disrupted, nor his bike ride with Lance Armstrong - so the closest I could get was over 5 miles away. New laws were passed by the dozens in Crawford, Tx last year to prevent protesting while our President is on vacation there because he doesn't want his vacations disrupted.

With this things in mind, the whole funeral protest ban smacks of pseudo-patriotism to me. It sends a message that says, "Don't disturb me or my soldiers, and other than that you can harrass each other all you want. I don't really give a damn, but don't I look patriotic now?"

If the ban were really about protecting the rights of mourners, the freedom of religion, or the freedom to peacefully assemble, it would have been enacted fairly all across the board. ALL funerals would have been protected from the time of Phelps first anti-gay rant or it would have been decided that NO funeral could be protected from Phelps and his kind. It is my opinion that to enact a ban now proves that the ban is not an act of justice, but only an act of politics.

edit to tone down my rant-like quality, not sure if I succeeded

[edit on 5/26/06 by wellwhatnow]



reply posted on 26-5-2006 @ 07:27 PM by The Vagabond
Wellwhatnow: where do you live? I'll make it a point never to visit except during lunch hours. lol
We just plain don't do it down here where I come from. If I may quote walk the line, "Don't touch it! Don't think about touchin' it, don't sing about touchin' it, don't think about singin' about touchin' it!" It's just not done here.

But yes I get your point and I agree, though only to the extent that social norms exist for the prevention of harm, which generally is how it works. For example, i can't pick somebody else's nose, or i can be arrested, but if I pick my own nose I won't go to jail, I just won't be dating much.

The culpability for lack of outrage over protests at gay funerals is first shared by all of us for seeming disinterested, but then again stuck most directly to those who have assumed the responsibility of being "the people's watchdog", namely the media, yet never bothered to say anything about that.

Afterall most of us never knew, but would have supported a law protecting them just as quickly, a few religious fanatics aside, and as far as I'm concerned they're like Phelps, only lazy.

If the ACLU has any concern for civil liberties they'll look for a suitable case to take this law to court and force the government to either strike it down as legislation against a particular group or else broaden it to include all such disturbances of the peace.

Of course they won't do that, as is their right. The ACLU's notion of what our civil liberties ought to be and to what end we have them seems to differ from mine.


reply posted on 7-12-2007 @ 08:15 AM by COOL HAND
Here is an update to where the case is going:

Ruling could clear way for protest to recommence

I cannot believe that they are going to let this crap start up again.

Why can't people leave the families alone so that they can mourn in peace?

These people are the lowest form of life on the planet.


reply posted on 7-12-2007 @ 04:10 PM by C0le
Congress continues to pass laws that seem all nice and dandy, but your forgetting these nice little laws are opening up the flood gates.....

When it comes to t he Constitution the LAW of this land you must think beyond the present....
sure this "seems" nice but what have we allowed them to do by allowing this law to pass?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


this is no different then the patriot act violations and every thing that followed "it seemed nice" but in reality it wasn't.. they used your little emotions to rob you, and you don't even realize it.

or maybe you do and just don't care...

Am I saying I agree with these moronic disrespectful jerks? not by any means, but i unlike others understand free speech and its purposes, you don't have to like it or agree with it, but you damned well better be ready to defend it even if its unfavorable.. because any limits on it is a limit on YOU.

The reason they only banned it from national cemeteries even thought they have no right to, is the fact that they are somewhat following the rules of the game which surprises me seeing as half of the stuff they vote on and pass isn't in there power... but they have NO authority to do anything within the states, only Fed property.

[edit on 7-12-2007 by C0le]
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