Congress passes funeral protest ban.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
They are allowed to restrict it though. They are allowed to do so in this way:

"Police and government officials are allowed to place certain non discriminatory and narrowly drawn "time, place, and manner" restrictions on the exercise of First Amendment Rights"

www.nlg-la.org...


[edit on 25-5-2006 by grimreaper797]

Did you read the whole PDF that you posted? There is little that can be done to stop protests or a speaker of a protest from saying whatever they want. The key words in the sentense you just posted is "non discriminatory" and "narrowly drawn" meaning that if the protesters request a protest of an event the governemt cannot select another day or time instead.

I live in Ohio. The KKK goes up to Cleveland every year for a big protest. They walk up and down the streets of African American neighborhoods and shout that blacks should go back to Africa and yell jungle monkeys at the crowds on the street. The mayor of Cleveland is African American and most of the police officers that must protect the KKK are African American. At one of the last KKK rallies the Mayor had to give them the police parking garage to get dressed. Imagine if these guys started protesting funerals. Under the old laws they had the right to do so if they followed the laws.

Well heck, I look at this from a totaly different angle, I see this law as a means to protect the Protestors, Not the famlies of fallen heros, Because if i for one was a member of one of these mourning famalies, and had to deal with these jerk-offs, there would be more then one funeral that day.

yes well how can you get the right to protest if your not allowed the information of when the funeral will be? day before they can just get a postponement of the funeral for a day or something, Im sure it takes longer then that to reschedule a protest.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
For those of you who disagree with this law and think this is even about freedom of speach perhaps it should be ok to protest their church cermonys then as well?

Yes!

Maybe even start protesting at everyones weddings to while we are at it!

Yes!

There is a appropriate place and time for everything, chanting anti homosexual slurs at a heterosexuals funeral doesnt make sense in the first place and is down right the rudest thing i have ever heard.

So, 'rude' should be against the law?

And i should point out this isnt political, its a religouse fanatic who thinks god smited these young people because their glorious god disagrees with American policies regarding homosexuality.

You don't have to point that out. We know who he is. I've known about Phelps for at least a couple years now. There are many threads on this board about him.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The tough part about holding onto our freedoms is respecting that they are granted also to those with whom we disagree.

I hear you, C0le!

[edit on 25-5-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

or they could always massive counter protest. They dont have to break up their protest, just get a massive crowd to over power theres with prayer to the soldiers. now that would be something. a group of protesters like 3 or 4 times the size of these peoples. Use the protest laws against them.

[edit on 25-5-2006 by grimreaper797]

In America you have the right to BE OFFENDED!

Rude is not against the law if it were there would be a lot more people in jail.

And again, how can you gladly and happily give your rights away? How can you go "Yea! They took my rights away! Happy Joy time!"

It seems like we have a problem with our system. In my opinion protestors shouldn't be given rights to disrupt a religious ceremony that is commonly accepted (a funeral). We don't grant rights for protestors to barge into churches on Sunday and disrupt Sunday services. Many towns and cities have ordinances or laws about disturbing the peace. My town and many cities in the southern US have laws where we can't buy beer or wine in the grocery store on Sundays. Putting a restriction on funeral protestors will be welcomed by over 95% of Americans I believe.

These particular protestors have turned the majority of Americans against them in my opinion. It just goes to show how they are protesting at the wrong places and wrong times. I know if I can't buy beer or wine on Sunday because it might offend one of the religions in the area, then I sure don't see a problem with restrictions on people who want to disrupt a funeral service. The protestors are still allowed to protest but shouldn't be allowed to take away our freedom of religion.

well as far as private cemetaries go, any protesting there would be against the law. Its not public, and the cemetary would have to OK it. Unless the cemetary is suicidal, they wont allow something like that.

So technically i could stand outside a church with signs saying they are all going to hell. and screaming they should rot and burn during their service. To me that sounds like its pure hate toward a group of people and that the government by protecting them is infringing on peoples rights to pursue happiness.

To me, this is just common sense. There is a correct time and place for public demonstrations and certain public places are off limits - public schools for example and now public cemeteries. No rights are being taken away. These people are just idiots hiding behind the free speech amendment. If these protesters want to tell us all how gay people are taking over the world or protest the war and the soldiers that is fine, they can do it on a downtown street or in front of the courthouse like everyone else. There is no need for them to be in a graveyard when a funeral is taking place. Protest laws are great because they allow Americans to voice their opinions in a constructive manner for the betterment of the community. These protesters are not protesting anything. These protesters are exploiting loopholes in the laws to personally attack grieving families.

Counter protests are always good and these anti-gay protesters have been protested against, but this misses the point. A grieving family does not want ANY protesters at their funeral – they want a moment of peace. Changing the date of the funeral is also not an option. Dates are set in arrangement with the funeral parlors. Funeral parlors are busy places. Canceling one date doesn’t mean that the following day will be open or even the next few days. Not to mention all of the family members that come from out of town to attend the funeral.

I have lived in 5 cities and I have never heard of a private owned cemetery. That doesn’t mean there are not privately run cemeteries, but the majority of cemeteries are typically owned by the city or state country.

And sorry YUMI but you are wrong. Americans do not have the right to offend others. There are standards and decency laws in every community. And those rights are balanced with free speech rights.


[edit on 25-5-2006 by zerotime]

It's not a matter of rude being against the law. It's a matter of inviting violence being against the law. I would assume that other state laws are similar. I take this law as nothing more than an affirmation by the government that disturbing a funferal is interpreted as inherently likely to invite an immediate violent reaction. The only real question is whether or not the Federal Government has any legitimate right to pass this law, or if it is actually a state matter.

California Penal Code:

407. Whenever two or more persons assemble together to do an
unlawful act, or do a lawful act in a violent, boisterous, or
tumultuous manner, such assembly is an unlawful assembly.

415. Any of the following persons shall be punished by imprisonment
in the county jail for a period of not more than 90 days, a fine of
not more than four hundred dollars ($400), or both such imprisonment
and fine:
(1) Any person who unlawfully fights in a public place or
challenges another person in a public place to fight.
(2) Any person who maliciously and willfully disturbs another
person by loud and unreasonable noise.
(3) Any person who uses offensive words in a public place which
are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.

I'm very much in favor of this myself. No family should be subjected to that sort of garbage at a loved one's funeral.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Hey, my applause bar broke today.

< Celebratory music plays in the background as BH, roses cradled in the crook of her arm, crosses the stage blowing kisses to the cheering crowd >

Congrats, BH! Well deserved!

Bot: regarding counter-protests, I believe that there is a motorcycle group who appears at some funerals and holds some very effective counter-protests. I like the idea of counter-protests; it's a legal, effective way to neutralize those jerks.

Originally posted by Yumi
How can you Americans support this? You were founded on Freedom of Speech and here you are saying "Oh good they'll make sure we can only speek when they want us to."

Que pensez-vous!? What are you thinking!? What will be next, no more Freedom of Speech when the President is speaking? "Oh good that way he can say Ya'll gone nucular." before he invades another country. Thankfully France has no oil so should be safe.

This is my take on this,

What are these protestors protesting, the gay issue, our lack of "christian morals", ect....

Where are they protesting? At the funerals of our war dead.

How are these two things related?? I really have no answer for that one, at least not one that makes much sense.

Since, I see no relevance between the two, I seem to think that they are just picking the most obnoxious way to get their message across. At least the animal rights group have some relevancy in their actions. The eco-mob protests at factories and in endangered forests....there seems to be a little reason behind their madness. I don't see it with the protesting of funerals. and well, would england or any other european country allow such protests, (regarding a relevant issue) at the funerals of one of their royals? I don't think they would....and to me, one of these fallen men and women is worth 5 or more of the european royals.
Their should be some kind of rule concerning the relevancy of the issue being protested and the venue chosen. otherwise, what is their to stop me from bringing a few hundred freinds of mine outside of the church for your daughter's wedding, and protesting for the painless slaughter of chickens...outside of my sanity of course.

Originally posted by Yumi
How can you go "Oh that offends me, take people's rights away."???

It's not. They still have a right to protest. They just can't do it when it
interferes with another person's right to religious freedom. See? This
'right' doesn't have the right to wipe out another 'right'. These people
still have the right to protest, just not in a way that interferes with other
Americans right to religious freedom - which a funeral is.

As I said it sickens me,

Then take a TUMS and smile because this definately isn't taking
away anyone's right to protest in America.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
For those of you who disagree with this law and think this is even about freedom of speach perhaps it should be ok to protest their church cermonys then as well?

Why not? I thing a group of gays picketing this church during services is covered under freedom of speach rights.

Source

"I commend the Patriot Guard Riders, a group of dedicated individuals who upon seeing an injustice, chose to rise up and not permit anyone to dance on sacred ground. At funerals around the country, they have ridden in on their motorcycles, with American flags waving, signaling to those present that they are there to protect the families as they mourn their loss."

And . . .

Our main mission is to attend the funeral services of fallen American heroes as invited guests of the family. Each mission we undertake has two basic objectives.

1. Show our sincere respect for our fallen heroes, their families, and their communities.

2. Shield the mourning family and friends from interruptions created by any protestor or group of protestors.

usually im all for fighting for peoples rights, but Im pretty sure that they can get arrested without there being a law specifically made for it. It infringes on a couple freedoms that these people mourning have, and it also breaks local laws(in most places I would say)

People need to really read what grim and The Vagabond are saying here. If the Powers That Be really wanted to stop these protesters, there are already LAWS on the books to do that. If they would enforce the existing laws, this church could be fined, arrested, whatever.

Think about the REAL reason this new BAN might be going into effect!

- Making a law to appease the 'offended'
- Making a law to limit Free Speech
- Instituting Protest zones far away from the central concern
- Setting a precedence for future Free Speech limitations
- Introducing the idea of legislating rudeness or disrespect

I can't believe people aren't looking beyond their noses on this one.

And Yumi is right. We have the right to be offended. NO WHERE in the Constitution does it say we have the right NOT to be offended. There are nuisance laws already on the books but being offended is part of life.

Those who would give up your liberties (and you do give them up when you take them away from others) don't deserve them.

Originally posted by Yumi
In America you have the right to BE OFFENDED!

Rude is not against the law if it were there would be a lot more people in jail.

And again, how can you gladly and happily give your rights away? How can you go "Yea! They took my rights away! Happy Joy time!"

It aint about rude man, its about having some integrity and dignity and respecting the dead. Reguardless of if you disagree with why they died. These men didnt have a choice to go to combat, its their job and they are fulfilling a contract they themselves signed. Its honorable to do so. These people are wrong for protesting at funerals, its just so disrespectful. Not to mention they dont even know these men and women who have given their lives. Maybe I should protest their loved ones funeral and see then if they want to have their cake and eat it too.

Originally posted by I See You
These people are not losing their freedom of speech. They can protest anywhere in the world for people to hear, just not at the funerals. So what's the problem? I'm telling you right now that if they showed up at one of my loved one's funeral that would be the least of their worries.

Yeah. I also don't see the ban on anti-war protests in the Oval Office as an infringement on free speech.

See before the laws were made for people who were having their personal liberties as a US citizen stepped on by other people exploiting what they think is the freedom of speech. THESE new laws though, are going farther and not acting on whats stepping on peoples liberties but the act itself being deemed wrong.

Though they might sound similar, they are entirely different. One is based on people being offended by it to the point of being put down or extremely uncomfortable, the one they made now is made to the effect that this action is wrong on moral basis. The second one I named is going against everything we stand for. We are not here to make laws based on the morals of certain people. We are here to protect the people whos liberties were being stepped on, not ban the action itself.

It the job of the people at the funeral to call the cops and report these people for imposing on there liberties as a citizen. It is not the job of the police/state/federal government, to make laws on what some people disagree with, especially if that imposes on another persons freedom of speech.

I think what they are doing is the lowest of low, but we can make a law on that. We can make a law about them imposing on these peoples liberties as a citizen though, because they are attacking these people right to be free from prosecution based on religion.