Langley 2006 Airshow

Originally posted by Pazo
And although I ain't russian either, those ruskies do design planes better than the CAD systems that serve as 'designers' at Locheed.

CAD programs don't/can't design things on there own. They are just a tool and like a pencil, it has to have human input in order for it to do anything. Sorry, but comments like that have always annoyed me. Years ago I remember hearing similar complaints from traditional artists about digital artists/artwork and saying how it takes no skill because the computer does all the work, which is obviously not true.

I like Russian aircraft a lot, but I wouldn't say they are better (or worse), they are just different. Every aerospace company has it's own methodologies when it comes to design. Especially when compared between US and Russian companies. I know that's sort of stating the obvious, but I thought I'd say it anyway.

To Cobra or not to Cobra? That is the question.

I went to the Farnborough Airshow in 1988, when the Soviet Union first showed off the MiG 29 in the West. A big deal was made in the British media of the Cobra manoeuvre and how spectacular it was. Well, I went on the last day of the Airshow, the Sunday, and the MiG display pilot was obviously bored with his set routine, because what he put on show was anything but his set routine. It was reported he got a roasting from ATC, because he abandoned the planned display from the word go, and so broke a whole host of safety regulations.

The thing is, it looked way more impressive showing off the tight, fast manoeuvrability of the non-FBW MiG, giving an amateur like myself an idea of how it compared to the F16 and F18 displays earlier. Plus, it showed that the MiG pilot wasn't above one-upmanship. In the end, the Cobra manoeuvre has no tactical use, much in the way the "VIFF' capability of the Harrier. Sure, it looks impressive to the uninitiated, but all it does is make a fast plane into a very expensive, static target.

G

Congratulations, Seekerof, you managed to turn this into a 'My daddy'll beat your daddy anytime" type of discussion.
Actually the cobra can be a very useful maneuvre in a one on one dogfight (in group combat it indeed turns you into a sitting duck). There are considerably more than 10-20 pilots doing it as a routine. Yes it will probably never be used in combat because the Su actually doesn't need to do it, it can outmaneuvre any opponent.
Yes, the USAF shouldn't consider this a threat, but they sure as hell considered the Su a threat when it kicked the F-15's ass in the Edwards air base 'Joint Combat Maneuvring' wich was staged away from the airfield so no one could see the Flanker turning circles around the great F-15. That's one of the reasons the F22 was made considerably more agile than the f15, don't tell me that this kind of agility is simply a byproduct, the F22 was meant to dogfight and a lot of effort has gone this way.
Whether dogfighting is obsolete is very debatable, if you judge by the 'David vs Goliath' so called wars, yes, no need to dogfight. You think it will be so in full scale war, at least 30% of kills will be close combat.
Anyway, I don't want to argue about doctrines and whether USAF is No1. We were talking about planes and their qualities. I don't think the Su 27 is a lesser plane just because there aren't enough pilots to fly it at 100%. In the contrary, it shows what an amazing machine it is. And so is the F22. But in other areas. As an 'airshow' fighter, it's just not so amazing. The Su just looks sexy in the air. The Raptor looks just...i don no, heavy. Sorry but I just feel that way.

www.metacafe.com...

Please have a look at this short Su 37 video, I'm sure many of you have, but some obviously haven't or don't want to remember it.
The cobra is the least impressibve maneuvre here. Nevertheles it was 5-6 seconds to the suprise of some individuals who claimed su's hold the cobra for 1-2. What's more interesting are the evolutions from cobra that it does. Please watch closely, more than once. I'm sure everyone who is not an american zealot will have real fun. Sadly this particular video doesn't show the 'hook' or cobra in a turn, one of my favourites, but here's another link of a Su 35 this time which has it

www.metacafe.com...


Enjoy