What's wrong with Mexico?

In the news and right here on ATS, we all hear about the illegal immigration; people, mostly from Mexico, coming to live and work in the United States without going through the legal processes of becoming citizens. However I never hear about the reasons why people, primarily Mexican, are leaving their respective countries to come to the U.S.

We hear about the deplorable conditions that the Mexicans are "forced" to work in and this is after an often perilous trip across deserts or unventilated trucks and train cars -- risking life and limb. What are the conditions in their own country that prompt these actions? What can be done in Mexico and other Central and South American countries to help stem the tide of illegal immigrants and/or economic refugees?

Good post! And what can Vicente Fox, who sports a diamond encrusted belt with "FOX" on it, and tight expensive jeans, do to save his country?

Why is he NEVER held accountable, not by Bush, not by anyone???

My guess concerning Vincente Fox is that he is so insulated from reality (sound familiar?) by his advisors, or so corrupt (more likely) that he simply does not care. The trouble makers, or the ones who could cause trouble, are leaving Mexico, why should he care?

I do find it rather odd, now that you mention it Benevolent Tyrant, that this isn't really being discussed in anything more than generalities by the so-called fourth estate. The conditions must truely be appalling, if the alternative is risking your life and the lives of your children on that journey, for the unknown of life in a country that would rather you not be here illegally. I hadn't really thought it through from that angle. It doesn't really change my mind concerning illegal immigration, but it does open my eyes a little.

Here are some promises made by Fox.

On poverty:


"We will attack poverty strongly to make the 40 million poor in our country a priority in the budget. Each Secretary of State, each Cabinet member, each civil servant who takes decisions in the next federal government, before taking a single decision will have to ask 'how much will my decision benefit indigenous groups, the poor, and those who are excluded from Mexico's development.'

"There are three or four things that I have a very strong interest in that happen in the country. The first of those is to finish with poverty. There will be a team [in the presidential staff] solely responsible for this."

And this:

On illegal Mexican migration to the U.S.:


"If we [Mexico and the U.S.] are serious, the least we can do is sit down and say 'This is the problem, and the goal is to close this difference in development and manage to become true partners, true neighbors, true friends.' What is the only experience the world has seen of this type? The European Common Market. Today Spain, Portugal, and Greece are at income levels almost the same as their trading partners. There is this example. If there is a better proposal, all the better.

"It's fundamental that we propose a long-term goal. If not, drugs, migration, and the border problems will continue. I would like to propose steps, for example, to form a fund like the one in Europe of $35 billion, for Mexico's development."

Typical politician. Bla bla bla...

Indeed. All too typical. All that soundbite, and not a sincere thought in the lot. It'd be funny if it weren't so tragic. How many more are going to pay the price of his, and others, corruption? Totally a rhetorical question, I know the answer. Lots, and lots.

Until conditions change for the better in Mexico, and other central American nations, nothing is going to change. Which means the removal of the corruption, unfortunately in all too many cases American sponcered, at the source. It means that the citizens of that country need to do it. Not, most emphatically, the U.S., because, quite frankly, our track record at this isn't all that rosey.

Ok, i am not one to question moves by the mods, but why on earth is this now in BTS??

I think this is a serious problem.

Economic chaos in Mexico


I just read this article while doing a bit of research on the economic conditions in Mexico.
Although I found quite a bit of material -- mostly numbers, you know, statistics -- but this article seemed to express the chaos that is Mexico.

The situation of governmental ignorance and stupidity is further emphasized by the governments' decision to purchase SU-27s for the Mexican Navy. At a time when over 60% of the country's population is considered as "living in poverty", this seems obscene. This purchase is worth nearly 500 million dollars.

SU27's? Whatever in the world for? Who are they planning on having a war with? I doubt the power elite in the US are going to risk a war with the source of a good chunk of their cheap labor. All that money that could have gone towards Fox's war on poverty in Mexico.

How many SU27's does 500 million dollars buy anyway? Not very many, I'm thinking. Not enough to be useful in the event of a war, but enough to make a cool looking static display when the spare parts run out.

That does kind of say it all though, doesn't it? Sad to say, it won't change anytime soon, either.

Just in an aside, shouldn't this be on, say...PTS somewhere? As DG said, this is an important issue that needs more exsposure.

[edit on 15-5-2006 by seagull]

Originally posted by seagull
SU27's? Whatever in the world for? Who are they planning on having a war with? I doubt the power elite in the US are going to risk a war with the source of a good chunk of their cheap labor. All that money that could have gone towards Fox's war on poverty in Mexico.
How many SU27's does 500 million dollars buy anyway? Not very many, I'm thinking. Not enough to be useful in the event of a war, but enough to make a cool looking static display when the spare parts run out.
[edit on 15-5-2006 by seagull]

Whenever I see a country anywhere that has overwhelming poverty, masses of homeless, impoverished citizens, I always can expect that the government will purchase arms. Just look at Mexico! But don't just look there.....look at India, Pakistan, a host of South American countries and just pick a country in Africa. While all of their citizens are out scrounging for a meal or a place to spend the night, the government is out purchasing weapons. Why?

As far as Mexico goes, there is no-one to go to war with. No one is attacking Mexico and, conversely, do you know if Mexico is planning to attack anyone? If not, then the only conclusion to be drawn is that Mexico is at war with her own people!

So very, very true. If you can't keep your people fed and housed, well atleast they can point with pride at their mighty, mighty 10 plane airforce sitting alongside the runway rusting to pieces for lack of parts.

The insanity of it is, they will point with pride at it. Send their kids to bed hungry, but boy howdy our planes sure are shiney.

Well, i place direct responsibility to this government here, mostly. BTW, why are we having a serious discussion on BTS? Anyone know?

Is this funny?

I dont think so. I think this is a serious discussion here.

Anyone? Its not my thread but i think this is misplaced.

What I have to say on this topic of Mexico may take two or three posts so please bear with me on this.

Mexico suffered a hyper inflation of its money some time in the late 1970s into the Early 1980s. THe peso went into the gutter putting alot of people out of work. Buisnesses too.
What happens to Nations historically when their money supply becomes worthless is that there is a change of Government. Usually it does not bode well historically for a new government to come to power. They are usually not much better than the government they have replaced.
The other thing or fingerprint which takes place in nations suffering hyperinflation to monetary worthlessness is that those nations or buisnesses operating on a worth while money system...can come in to these hyperinflation countrys and buy up thier land and buisnesses for pennys on the dollar so to speak.
What happened in Mexico is that they got new foreign owners. The hyperinflation set the stage for this new takeover of the nation. They keep the locals in power to keep up the appearence of Mexico for Mexicans but in reality foreigners own and run the nation under a new debt load. Part of the deal for setting up this new debt restructuring is that the new government must put the people in public offices that the financers want. They are not to operate indepently ..just look independent on the surface.

Along with all this drama of monetary failure, new foreign owners..et al...you also have the problem in Mexico of huge numbers of people without real job skills. Skills marketable in the Mexican Economy. Large numbers of unemployable people in Mexico represents a economic threat to the new foreign owners of the country. They have sought a way to keep these people occupied and limit their mischief....otherwise chaos will result in the buisness investments of the new foreign owners.
The manner which seems to have been used to solve this problem is to move huge numbers of the unemployable across the border to the USA. This appears to be a long standing agreement with the new foreign owners of the Mexican economy and the Mexican Government...and also the Government of the USA.
IN essence ..we are subsidizing the Government of Mexico to give it stability it would not naturally be afforded if they had to run their government on their own merits.
The United States is breast feeding the Mexican economy to protect the investments of these new foreign owners. We are boot lackys to protect this investment plan. This appears to be a knowlege of which our Senators and President are well aware of and do not want the public to catch on to its existance. This is the only explanation I can think of as to why the Mexican Government and Vicente Fox can thumb their noses up at us so openly and we are not able to do anything about it. It is a inside rigged deal. The only ones who dont seem to know that this is a rigged deal is the American People. They seem to be left in the dark about this turn of events. Our media is also in on the deception. They are part and parcel of the political process and have a vested intrested in the dumbing down of the American public. Especially on this issue.
This is also why any attempt at border policing is and will be only cosmetic window dressing no matter how many National Guard troops they send to the border..it will be a continuation of the same old dog and pony show.
If we dont offer Mexico stability with thier unemployable populace ..chaos will ensue in Mexico and threaten the investments of the new foreign owners.

The two political partys in America are in on the deception...they are mostly intrested in these new across the border folks for votes and the continued entrenchment of the partys to political power. They are not in trested in the "will of the American People. " Neither political party. This will become obvioius to the American People as time goes buy.

I realize this is a different twist to what most of you get in what passes for news in this country. It is what I have pieced together from fragments of news and history of which I am awares. Look up on the web the Mexican hyperinflatoin of their economy from some 1981 or so to 1986. VEry telling if you know what to look for in these posts.

Some food for some of you to consider while watching the farce in the news and politics on these issues.
By the way..your news and info people on the talk radio show circuit..they too cannot be all that ignorant of what is really going on. Remember this when some of you listen to Rush and others.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
What can be done in Mexico and other Central and South American countries to help stem the tide of illegal immigrants and/or economic refugees?

The USA needs to take steps towards something that resembles border security and then the refugees will become someone elses problem.
IF the USA chooses to help these people foreign aid needs to be stopped or reformed. Nobody in the Mexican government should see a dime. Foreign aid has been feeding corrupt politicans for 30 years.

I reckon building a sewage system in Mexico City would be a good starting point. This dosnt mean that Hailburton comes to the party. You make use of the local workforce as much as possible and you teach them anything they dont know that way less intervention is required next time around.

Foreign aid is one of my pet hates. :bnghd:

[edit on 1-6-2006 by xpert11]

I am not keen on alot of foreign aid either. I believe much of it is politically motivated to help certain vested buisness intrests on the back of the American Taxpayer. This is start up moneys give aways for many buisnesses at American Taxpayer expense. We just call it foreign aid..it is a makeover for many countrys/buisnesses at taxpayers expense.

I just dont believe our government is intrested in border security because of reasons stated in my post above. IF we enforce border security it will mean political insecurity/instability for the existing Mexican Government. THis means foreign buisnesses...including banks which invested in Mexico...will have their investments jeopardized by political instability. Any border security which we will attempt under pressure from the public will be cosmetic only. Any attempts will appear public but behind the scenes it will be hijacked by the political process for reasons of the process..not the public intrests. This is typical of how politics often works. The show ..seldom the substance.
To put this another way ..or in another perspective...follow the money!!!


Thanks,
Orangetom

What is wrong with mexico is that they are poor, opressed and corrupt. From the police to the politicans I mean have you ever been pulled over by a mexican cop you have to give them a bribe or they will put you in jail possibly for years. It's not the citizens fault they just want a normal life

Originally posted by spinstopshere
It's not the citizens fault they just want a normal life

Viva la Revolucion!

That's a familiar cry in Mexico and South America. The people in this region have always had pride in their Revolutions over oppressive governments. Well, perhaps it's time that the citizens take matter into their own hands again.

If the citizens of a country face oppression and corruption from their government, who's fault is it? If this oppression and corruption continues for years and decades, who's fault is it?

I don't blame the oppressed citizenry of any country but, ultimately, it is the citizenry's responsibility to make change or, perhaps, they are simply waiting for the U.S. to invade and bring them "democracy"?