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Loose Change setup to be debunked!

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posted on May, 14 2006 @ 11:22 AM
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first, lets used an unenhanced version of fatty B.
911myths.com...

the middle image is the infamous fatty B image. unenhanced, unsharpened, etc. doesnt look so fat to me anymore. looks to me like a man smiling.
bsbray the fundamental flaw in your argument is that you are basing this all on one still out of an entire video. you can tell me not to compare profiles to head ons blah blah but its all the same. when you have ONE, ONE still that looks, while smiling proudly, in comparison to the rest of the stills where he looks normal while normally talking, its not much of an argument at all!

and why would such a detail be there? call it non-sequitor because it doesnt fit your agenda, but i dont think it would be in there if it were fake. why mention holland, and the supposed rise in islam after september 11th?

and im grasping at straws? you keep focusing one ONE stillframe, when the rest dont look fat!!! does that say anything?


anyway,
i believe we have a miscommunication, i posted:
"in addition, in reference to photo D
newsfeed.tcm.ie...
the nose curve is the same, which is not seen from head on.
the angle of shot D just speaks for itself. the right side of his face appears rounder because of the angle and the way his beard takes shape upon his face. "
i was not talking about fatty at that time. you think i did because you then posted to the two small close shots of the fatty nose and the one i linked to. i was just talking about picture D, not the fatty one at that point. i was trying to point out D isnt a different osama but anyway. i should have clarified.


the turban of the second shot is smaller than the first.
you can see the right side of it shift left. the whole face gets skinnier, along with the turban. if the turbans were scaled together it would look different
A shots nose looks wider because its less defined than b shots nose. the nose doesnt change size between shots, it changes in its definition, which makes the nose look skinnier. there is no definition in the nose of shot A.
the sound production of A makes the cheekbones appear to be higher, raised, but in reality its his muscles tensing to produce that sound.
shot B he is producing an OO sound, his lips must come out and slightly pucker, which pulls the muscles and skin in a different direction, it relaxes them. you can also see his eyebrows raise back as he does this, in comparison with the tense eyebrows in shot A of the gif.

and above all this, you ignore possible weight gains and loses as a result of his kidney dialysis.

furthermore, another possibility is the use of doubles. Al-qaeda psyops, since youre concerned with that.

washingtontimes.com...

www.hinduonnet.com...

there are too many aspects of this to pin it as a fallacy, bsbray.




posted on May, 14 2006 @ 11:56 AM
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Here's a much better picture of the 2004 osama.



It is clearly Osama in that picture and in the rest of the tape. In the distorted pic used for that silly gif you keep posting, the original looked like the pic above. I find it funny that two still photos that go along with your position is all you need to believe.

BTW, here is Osama with a ring on his finger from a different video. I suppose this is a fake Osama too?




and please keep hauling out those disinfo rules when your argument starts losing. When you can no longer handle the debate it's a good tactic to start questioning the method of debate, fallacy, non-sequiter etc.

Keep up the good work.


[edit on 14-5-2006 by LeftBehind]



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 11:59 AM
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i know youre being sarcastic, but the ring is in many videos of usama


but i see what youre getting at


[edit on 14-5-2006 by blatantblue]



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 01:04 PM
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You can point out all the differences in lighting and the still being angled a few degrees different from another or what Osama had for breakfast that day, but you're not proving that it was the same guy. You're only contesting how I'm showing you the differences, and the thing is, you're not doing a complete job at that.

What you're saying are all things to keep in mind, but at the end of the day you still have this:



Change the relative sizes or adjust the lighting or whatever you want and you would still have two distinctly different noses. Go ahead. There's only so much room for difference between two human noses, but I'll be damned if those are both the noses of the same dude short of plastic surgery.

Pick out other noses from the Fatty videos to compare to Osama (from about the same angles mind you -- no profiles to fronts or silly crap like that) and you'll see the same thing. Again, go ahead.

Btw,


Originally posted by blatantblue
bsbray the fundamental flaw in your argument is that you are basing this all on one still out of an entire video. you can tell me not to compare profiles to head ons blah blah but its all the same.


Hats off to you for this awesome contradiction.



Originally posted by LeftBehind
and please keep hauling out those disinfo rules when your argument starts losing. When you can no longer handle the debate it's a good tactic to start questioning the method of debate, fallacy, non-sequiter etc.


I was pointing out the non-sequitur because that's what it was, not because I was "losing." It's a logical fallacy for a reason, buddy, but it's nice to see you're as immature as ever with these discussions. Concern yourself with "winning" and "losing" talk over world events and you sure as hell must be on the path to denying ignorance, and not just trolling, right?



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 01:21 PM
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im done with this thread because youre being about as dense as a J-DAM.

go ahead BSbray, keep using that one still frame, the enhanced, toyed-with still frame at that. keep ignoring other parts of the video where he doesnt look fat at all.

go ahead and dont take kidney dialysis into play, or reports of body doubles, or the fact the gif is flawed in that many ways. ignore what he speaks about in the video, keep calling it a non-sequitor.
ignore lighting, and other things that can change the way things look. ignore the fact Shot B in the gif is more detailed than the blurrier Shot A. ignore how the size of his turban becomes smaller in shot B. ignore how his nose does not become smaller, but more defined and detailed. ignore how the how the left shoulder falls below the line of the same shoulder in Shot A. the
ignore his speech pronunciations. ignore the different styles of lighting in either shot. ignore how the first picture posted by Left behind has elongated cheeks like Shot B in your gif. just ignore it all.

stick to controlled demolition arguments, youre much better at that.

later



[edit on 14-5-2006 by blatantblue]

[edit on 14-5-2006 by blatantblue]



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by blatantblue
im done with this thread because youre being about as dense as a J-DAM.
[...]
go ahead and dont take kidney dialysis into play, or reports of body doubles


What are you even arguing anymore man?


ignore lighting, and other things that can change the way things look.


I'm not ignoring anything. Again, I challenge you to take a still from one of the Fatty videos and compare the nose to an Osama pic from about the same angle. Change the lighting on it or whatever you want so long as the shapes remain the same. See if any of that suddenly makes the noses appear the same.



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 05:43 PM
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im sorry..im pretty positive those are the same people.








the nostrils are swept back and the same shape. its the same nose.

[edit on 14-5-2006 by blatantblue]


i dont know the html isnt working, whatever


ok wtf why isnt this html working! help?

[edit on 14-5-2006 by blatantblue]

[edit on 14-5-2006 by blatantblue]



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 06:25 PM
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Comparing noses on stills like that ultimately proves nothing. Without watching the videos for comparison it's hard to tell what was done to your "fatty-nose" pic.

Here I took a picture, copied it, and then messed with size of the image. First I shrank it down and then I blew it back up. This sort of thing makes gifs very unreliable evidenc. Especially ones that show tell tale signs of being compressed and stretched.



Notice how the cheekbones line up different? Notice the how just minor dimension changes can distort things? If this happens with the same picture, it is much worse with different pictures of the same person.

In better quality versions of the video it certainly looks like OBL to me.

Here watch this video and see Osama write with his right hand as well.

www.karim.co.nr...



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 06:50 PM
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thanks for explaining what i couldnt, leftbehind



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 06:50 PM
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'Loose change' is definitely about minimizing the impact on Israel and its agents which ran 911 and other white flag operations I believe. Look at all the people behind these disinfo campaigns... they are mainly beholden to Israel in the first place. Sayanim's are everywhere and that is how they ran 911 within the US government right under the nose of the White House. Easy when you have a lot of loyal people in all the right places.. high places as a matter of fact. How many are loyal to Israel whilst holding positions at the very top of the US military?



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 07:28 PM
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I took your images and reduced them the same way I did the other two. Compare them.





Blatantblue, you've now demonstrated one thing to me: the noses appear the same from the side. With a perfect profiles of Fatty and Osama, their noses appear similar.
Now do that from the front.



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 07:46 PM
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of which ones, ill do it for you



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by blatantblue
of which ones, ill do it for you


Try for angles like this, in between profile and fontal:


Those look pretty irreconcilable. Or just frontals:



Sets of one from one of the Fatty tapes, one from some other source.

You can change the lighting or whatever you want so long as you can make out the same basic features of each nose. Distorting the pictures so that you can hardly make out squat in them (like LB just did) doesn't accomplish anything.



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 09:22 PM
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couple of quick questions
if the two side noses are the same, and the lips are the same, they are not the same?
i think they are


also, if im to compare what you mentioned, can i use something more representative of the tape as a whole, or are you going to continue bantering about a single frame?



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 10:26 PM
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Nice, your picture from the 2004 video is exactly what I'm talking about.

You are claiming that a compressed still is somehow evidence that it's a different person.

Here is the same comparison with a better still.



Using stills without anything to put them in context is ridiculous and proves nothing. Haven't you wondered why the fatty claims use the same pic over and over. If it's so obvious why aren't other pictures from the tape used?



In this picture the quality is a little better, and he looks much more like he does in other videos. Is this nose good enough for you?



posted on May, 14 2006 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by blatantblue
if the two side noses are the same, and the lips are the same, they are not the same?


Not if the facial features don't match up at all in other aspects. What were you saying about body doubles earlier? You think they'd use someone who doesn't look anything like the real deal?


also, if im to compare what you mentioned, can i use something more representative of the tape as a whole, or are you going to continue bantering about a single frame?


I don't care as long as you do what I outlined above. And about the same size, too, man. Same sizes, same angles.


Originally posted by LeftBehind
Here is the same comparison with a better still.


The noses are still different; it's just less noticeable because the heads are completely different sizes and the 2004's body gives the image a slim feel as compared to the other image.


In this picture the quality is a little better, and he looks much more like he does in other videos. Is this nose good enough for you?


No, lol, you didn't even post anything to compare that one to. I'm saying same angle for a reason man. You must not even be looking at the pics.

You're being ridiculous LB. Granted compression does make a difference, but not the one you're looking for. What do you have to gain in being so thick-headed man?



The noses are completely different. Not bad quality, or compressed, etc., etc.; they're just DIFFERENT.

Compression doesn't do that. Consult a freaking expert.

And would you freaking look at those noses for christ sake. Are we even looking at the same thing here? Dense, dense, dense man. I'm losing motivation to keep responding here if you're just going to refuse to look at it and keep chanting compression like it's some magic charm that totally rearranges facial features.

[edit on 14-5-2006 by bsbray11]



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 12:00 AM
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Well, then why don't you use the picture I posted from the same video as your comparison then.

It's in my last post, that's from the same video.

Compare those two noses and tell me they are not the same guy.

Stop using the one pic from that video when his face is scrunched up and you might convince someone other than yourself.

Edit:

Look the second one is obviously a fake.

Look at the noses, no way is that the same guy.



[edit on 15-5-2006 by LeftBehind]



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 12:13 AM
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the noses, their bridges, the lips, id say are all facial features in the recent pics i posted..
they are the same.
what do i need now, freckles?



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 12:20 AM
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Oh! OK! I don't know why I didn't see it before!!


That mysterious difference between the noses:



...is now explained away!:




Good work, man! Those Fatty videos were totally smushed up like that. The whole face, just like that. You even made him look Asian while you were at it, man.



posted on May, 15 2006 @ 12:33 AM
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here she is bsbray
lets put it to rest.

terrorism.freeservers.com...

thats a shot of osama you keep posting.

www.lasegunda.com...

there he is again. same rifle, same pillow.

www.september11news.com...
and again.

these are all of him issuing a fatwa in 98. the second shots he is osama.

the second one in turn can match with the following
911myths.com...

or this
911myths.com...


now im positive they are the same people!





PLEASEEEE!!!!
TELLL!!!
ME!!!
YOU
ARE
SATISFIED!!
AHHDFGUHDG goodnight!!
[edit on 15-5-2006 by blatantblue]

[edit on 15-5-2006 by blatantblue]



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