Oh How Sweet It is! To be Rich, a Republican and White! Hmm?

Originally posted by NotClever

OMG, thank you. That is exactly what I've been trying to say. Those examples are statistically aberrant.

Yet the Rush case isn't?

ludaChris, I'm not going to play Texas two step with you. I'll come right to the point. You do notice that there are inequalities in society. And that is good. Even you have to notice that there are discrepancies in the legal system. That is also good if you do.

For myself, I don't think all Whites are racist. However, I do think that donwhite does raise some issues that need to be dealt with inside the White community. And the problem here is that people are too mad to ask questions and discuss them. They would rather let the feeling simmer until there is a situation (like undocumented workers and 9/11) that allows all their resentment to blow. I think the attacks on donwhite's subject matter alone proves that to me. There are some very hard issues to face when one looks in the mirror at one's self.

I think in this thread, you probably got a rare taste of seeing when one person speaks about issues that touch the very core of his/her race, that others of the same race are more willing to jump on that person than rather hear them out. Those that ask questions would like to see progression happen in race-relations as a whole because they understand themselves and others better. Those that don't are affixed with letting things stay the same because they are more comfortable there. And because of that, the same old problems exist instead of letting things get better.

And that is not to say that any other race doesn't have to. We all have to look in that mirror and come face to face with what we are dealing with instead of wasting time on racial epipthets.

I am glad that you had a chance to look at my thread, "Why is talking about Race a Taboo?" I also hope that you post your questions that you want to ask about other races or about your own race if you have a chance. On that thread, we civily discuss the issues of race and racism and come to some conclusion. And if you read the entire thread, you will see that all the posters there have distinct points of view--even if some of us belong to the same race. No one fights. No one insults another race. We talk about it.

It is sad, that more people do not do the same. They waste their time with the little trivialities of life instead of making other people better informed.


P.S. Thanks for the compliment, NotClever.







[edit on 2-5-2006 by ceci2006]

flyersfan, we meet again. And still with the same vitriol as last time:

Originally quoted by flyersfan
That's crap.

White people have to prove that they are innocent of
being racist, but black people automatically are innocent and have
to be proven to be racist?

THAT is racist!

You said it. I didn't. However, I am going to give others a chance to see how you prove that you're innocent of being racist. Luckily for me, I hardly have to do any leg work. All I had to do is click on the thread "May 1--Will it Hurt or Help Illegals?" You supplied the rest with your very descriptive prose:

I don't think that the mexican-american population votes republican. I'll have to look up stats ... but I'm pretty sure it's like the black population...democrat and social giveaways.

Social giveaways? Okay. I'm sure you didn't mean that about Black people. I'll let it slide this time. I'll give you another chance.

The president of Mexico is sending people hereby the tens of thousands every day. He's quietly invading America. He KNOWS that when there are more Mexicans in California, New Mexico,and Arizona ... he knows that they'll want to either open wide the flood gates and let in all their mexican brethren or they will just annex those states back to Mexico.

The Mexican government SENDS their non-wage-earning people here. They know that if they are here, then their government doesn't have to pay for their welfare, their medical care, their child care, their anything. He's sending his criminals here .. his gangs here ... his dregs here.

He's dumping them here so he doesn't have to fix his own darn country.

Hmmmm. Is that really true what you said about Mexicans? Oh my. Do you really believe that? But I'll cut you some slack. I'll give you another chance:

Supposedly the Muslims in this country are being asked to join in.
I don't buy what worldnutdaily says ... but in this case I'm going to
do some checking. Obviously the Mexican invasion is good for
the radical muslim terrorists ... so common sense says that they
would loooooooove to see a war between the USA and Mexico.

Mexican invasion? Radical Muslim terrorists? Is that what you think? Wow. I think you failed. You're guilty as charged. Call the guards!!!

Lesson here folks, when we're understanding, knowledgable and empathetic of other people and their circumstances, we don't have to worry about being racist or not. However, in flyersfan's case? I'll leave that to you to decide. She doesn't have anything to prove, does she?













[edit on 2-5-2006 by ceci2006]

Let's just face it. Mr. Limbaugh is a statistical anomaly. In the arena of drugs, race and incarceration, people of his ilk don't get jail time. They get rehab. And rehab. And rehab.

For the rest of us, there is the site Drug War Facts:

drugwarfacts.org

1. Of the 265,100 state prison inmates serving time for drug offenses in 2002, 126,000 (47.53%) were black, 61,700 (23.27%) were Hispanic, and 64,500 (24.33%) were white.

Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2004 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, Oct. 2005), Table 12, p. 9.

2.The racially disproportionate nature of the war on drugs is not just devastating to black Americans. It contradicts faith in the principles of justice and equal protection of the laws that should be the bedrock of any constitutional democracy; it exposes and deepens the racial fault lines that continue to weaken the country and belies its promise as a land of equal opportunity; and it undermines faith among all races in the fairness and efficacy of the criminal justice system. Urgent action is needed, at both the state and federal level, to address this crisis for the American nation."

Source: Key Recommendations from Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities in the War on Drugs (Washington, DC: Human Rights Watch, June 2000), from the web at www.hrw.org...

3. "Our criminal laws, while facially neutral, are enforced in a manner that is massively and pervasively biased. The injustices of the criminal justice system threaten to render irrelevant fifty years of hard-fought civil rights progress."

Source: Welch, Ronald H. and Angulo, Carlos T., Justice On Trial: Racial Disparities in the American Criminal Justice System (Washington, DC: Leadership Conference on Civil Rights / Leadership Conference Education Fund, May 2000), p. v.

4. "When total incarceration rates are estimated separately by age group, black males in their twenties and thirties are found to have high rates relative to other groups. Among the more than 2.1 million offenders incarcerated on June 30, 2004, an estimated 576,600 were black males between ages 20 and 39 (table 13). "Among males age 25 to 29, 12.6% of blacks were in prison or jail, compared to 3.6% of Hispanics and about 1.7% of whites (table 14).

"Although incarceration rates drop with age, the percentage of black males age 45 to 54 in prison or jail in 2004 was an estimated 4.5% -- more than twice the highest rate (1.7%) among white males (age 30 to 34)."

Source: Harrison, Paige M., & Allen J. Beck, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prison and Jail Inmates at Midyear 2004 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, April 2005), p. 11.

And also Ward Harkavy's "The Numbers Beyond the Bling". This is an article that hashes out the disparity between the rich and the poor amongst all races.

Joseph E. Kennedy's legal paper, Drug Wars in Black and White also demonstrates the differences in drug use and incarceration in a historical and social context.

And, Noelle Bush must also be a "statistical anomaly". Michelle Goldberg reports the difference between her sentence and the ones African-Americans get in Noelle Bush gets rehab, the poor and black get hard time for Salon.com.

These articles are just pieces of information to add to the thread.


[edit on 2-5-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
how you prove that you're innocent of being racist.

I don't have to prove it. I am not a racist. But of course
you WANT me to be one. Keep dreaming.

Is that really true what you said about Mexicans?

Yes. Try taking a sociology class sometime. It's college
getting a higher education. College.

It is a FACT that the government of Mexico sends the people it doesn't
want here. WHen they are here, then the Mexican government doesn't
have to feed them, cloth them, educate them, or provide any other
social services for them. It's good for the Mexican economy and BAD
for ours because, YES, we end up supporting them with billions and
billions of our tax money for free medical care, education, and
law enforcement. These are FACTS. Get educated.

BTW - my husband is 1/4 Mexican (grandfather full mexican)
and my daughter is fully Bolivian - being adopted from Bolivia.
My best friend and her family are from Bolivia with English as
a second language. All of them came here LEGALLY.

So don't even try saying that I hate latinos. That's crap.
Go to college. Get educated.

www.vdare.com...
www.vdare.com...
www.theamericanresistance.com...

Bush gives 1 billion in taxpayer money for illegal alien medical care.
www.warriorsfortruth.com...

www.fairus.org...

www.usatoday.com...

medical services, free of charge, if they claim an emergency need. for care.
www.jpands.org...

EMTALA rewards them with extensive, expensive free medical services
if they claim emergency requirement for care. www.newswithviews.com...

Illegal immigrants badly overuse ERs instead of tapping into
often-free health-care clinics or finding a family doctor.
www.sfgate.com.../chronicle/archive/2006/01/06/EDGU9GHG0S1.DTL

Environmental destruction by Illegals crossing -
(national parks are maintained by .... US TAX PAYERS)
www.desertinvasion.us...



[edit on 5/2/2006 by FlyersFan]

I don't care about your pedigree. I don't care about your education. And most of all, I truly don't care whether you prove it to me that you aren't racist.

However, if racial issues make you that mad, might I suggest anger management?

Grow up ceci.

You tried to trash me on the boards. I showed you were wrong.
Actually, I showed you are more than that. But I'm sure most
folks already can see you for what you are.

Anger management? There you go again. Hardly.
Go to college. Get educated. I suggest sociology.
You might learn something. Then again ... considering
it's you ... you probably won't.

This thread still is and a waste.
Enjoy wallowing with each other. Bu-bye.

Honey, I'm not the one telling anyone to get an education or telling another person to grow up. I leave the crass behavior and bad manners to you.

But then again, I am curious about your education. It certainly shows that you are educated and sophisticated. Did you get it from Yale?



[edit on 2-5-2006 by ceci2006]

I've learned an important lesson in this thread.

Forget attempting a reasoned discussion about race relations. One, the knee-jerk posts are impossible to counter or rebut, and two, it seems when the subject matter comes up, people puke out the first thing that comes to mind and then "click", they shut their brain off.

If its possible to judge a person's character from their posts here; I'll follow ceci around.

And a quick comment about education. That's hilarious, coming from someone who is confusing ethnicity with race.

This is a subject more properly discussed face-to-face. Not hiding behind the anonymity of a username.

NotClever,

Thank you very much for your compliment. However, I do think race can be discussed here. But, people will have to be open-minded, committed to seeing race-relations change and be able to keep it civil. Most of all, you have to have desire to make a difference by hashing out different issues regarding race relations. Only then, things can get better.

I'm sorry that what you've seen in the last posts was not cordial. I would much prefer it if people looked at these issues honestly and forthrightly.

Lol that's cute.

Doesn't seem like she's racist to me. You'd probably view me as even more racist then her!

Personally, we should kick the illegals out and if they won't leave... either violently force them or shoot them. Sorry, but our country has enough problems as it is and we can't really afford to take care of people who'd like to come into the country illegaly. Not only does it hurt our economy, it also hurts those that did come here legally.

African-american people imo should cut the BS. If a white person says the N word, it's racist. If a black person says the N word, it's part of a greeting. Even if a white person uses the N word in the same exact way the black person next to him says it, like Sup N, it's still racist just because your white.

People today are complainer's. Whiney little babies who need to finger point and make other people out to be something they aren't so they can feel better about themselve's. Your one of those people. Nothing she has said was racist in any way, and she's right. You just want her to be racist for your own friggin amusement. You wanna see someone who's racist, look at all those damn so called minority groups we're supposed to tip toe around.

No. I don't wish for her to be racist. I don't wish for you to be racist. The world would be a lot better if people were understanding, respectful and caring though.

But thank you for giving me your true opinion.

[edit on 2-5-2006 by ceci2006]

Why should I be more respectfull of the illegal immigrant when there are LEGAL means for obtaining entry into the USA, or any country for that matter. Why should I be more understanding towards someone who uses the N word without ill effect, but immeadatly view me as a sadistic racist bastard part of the KKK just for being white? Not one single person on this planet is respectfull and understanding. Everyone, everywhere has their favorite off colored jokes about another race or belief system. Everyone everywhere has their own opinions towards another group of people based on looks or customs or colour. Even you do, and don't try and BS everyone here by claiming you don't. So before you sit there and attack what she says as being racist, check yourself first mate.

posted by NotClever: “I've learned an important lesson in this thread. Forget a reasoned discussion about race relations. One, the knee-jerk posts are impossible to counter or rebut, and two, it seems when the subject matter comes up, people puke out the first thing that comes to mind and then "click," they shut their brain off. [Edited by Don W]

You are exactly right, N/C, but I use it as a “honing” of my own introspection. I have made a lot of observations over time but I have not always thought to put it into words.

If its possible to judge a person's character from their posts here, I'll follow ceci around. And a quick comment about education. That's hilarious, coming from someone who is confusing ethnicity with race. This is a subject more properly discussed face-to-face. Not hiding behind the anonymity of a username.

Well, it takes a lot of self-control to confront a person when both persons hold their contradictory beliefs strongly. Maybe it is better to’ vent their spleens’ here than face-to-face? We might end up calling the EMT that some poster above laments for the poor sick and or injured.

Yep. I'll look at myself in the mirror. Long and hard. And I'll also look at Skippy. Long and hard. And then, I'll continue to try and to fight for the dignity of people from all walks of life again in the morning.

Beware the "angry black woman." She hides in plain sight, and her public behavior stands in stark contrast to her private tirades. She's passive-aggressive, and furthermore, she's got Oprah on her side. Center stage in the spotlight is her birthright, and don't you forget it, honey. That's right.

After witnessing first-hand the parenting techniques employed by such people, especially against their own male children, its a wonder to me prison statistics aren't even more skewed. The reverse misogyny displayed by these militant matriarchal disciples of micro-managed mayhem gives confusion a complex that would smother Old Faithful. Seeking release from a bondage worse than slavery, it is understandable, if not legal, that one would act out. Prison time might even be a relief from such treatment.

My hat goes off to all black men that have been subject to such abuse and navigated through it successfully, and to all black women who avoid falling into this trap. My heart goes out to those unable to cope. I rebuke the failed efforts of angry egotistical people bent on taking out their frustrations at their own failures on those they are charged to sheperd, rationalizing the results of their misbehavior by blaming the "evil overseer."

[edit on 2-5-2006 by Icarus Rising]

Originally posted by Prot0n
Why should I be more respectfull of the illegal immigrant when there are LEGAL means for obtaining entry into the USA, or any country for that matter. Why should I be more understanding towards someone who uses the N word without ill effect, but immeadatly view me as a sadistic racist bastard part of the KKK just for being white?

I hear you, if youre southern like me you get stereotyped as being a racist redneck. I mean I honestly dont care what someone who doesnt even know me says about me, but to me its just rude is all. I think racism is an associated stigma that will forever be stuck with southerners as far as how others from outside the south see us. That goes with the KKK as well, its a stigma people will associate with southerners forever and will never be able to shake. The problem I have with this thread is it immediately associated all white, rich, conservatives as being racist. I'm not rich, but I am white and conservative and I dont know about anyone else, but I just dont like someone else telling me(white conservatives in general) how we are when they have no idea.

[edit on 5/2/2006 by ludaChris]

posted by Prot0n: “Why should I be more respectful of the illegal immigrant when there are LEGAL means for obtaining entry into the USA, [Edited by Don W]

Yesterday, I heard a person from Bolivia interviewed, and he said the US has only 5,000 visas a year available to common or unskilled laborers. Worldwide. Yet, there are 500,000 visas - he said - available to person of wealth or professionally trained. For a poor person, undereducated, and not politically connected, the chance of a visa is equal to winning the lottery.

“ . . Why should I be more understanding towards someone who uses the N word without ill effect, but immediately view me as a sadistic racist part of the KKK just for being white? Everyone, everywhere has their favorite off colored jokes about another’s race or belief system. Everyone everywhere has their own opinions towards another group of people based on looks or customs or color. Even you do, and don't try and BS everyone here by claiming you don't. So before you sit there and attack what she says as being racist, check yourself first mate. [Edited by Don W]

You are mainly right, Pro, but probably for the wrong reasons. Oops, there I go again, being judgmental. Proving your point. Let’s start over. I am prejudiced. I have said that many times. I accuse any white person born in America before 1954 as proof prima facie of prejudice. Prove to me you are not. Sure, I know that is not exactly correct. That there are always exceptions to any “rule” about people. But it is close enough for government work, as some people like to say.

I am an educated person. (A proof itself I'm white.) When the 1954 Brown case came down I opposed it for sophisticated reasons, not your down and dirty red-neck type racism. The issue on which the Supreme Court decided the case had not been presented by any of the litigants. It is a “rule” of court that judges are to decide cases based on the “evidence” or pleadings given to them. Well, so I was told. It turns out that so-called “rule” is not a rule at all. That was a bogus claim for salving the consciences of one class of white people. No black person believed that, ever. Only whites believed it. What’s that tell you?

I never had an Eureka moment. Or a Damascus Road conversion either. I came to my present realization slowly. Over time. I was greatly aided my by 5 years in the Air Force. When I enlisted in 1952, I thought not much about the fact our printed orders had a “(N)” behind the 4 or 5 black guys in my training unit of 72 men. So if your new unit could not tell you were black by your appearance, they would be aware of it when receiving copies of your orders.

I was serving a second enlistment in 1963, I was transferred to MacDill AFB, Tampa and on arrival, the First Sergeant apologized for not having bed space in a 2 man room. Then he added, there was one room with a black guy in it, if I wanted to avoid double bunking. I took it. Living with him for the next 10 months taught me a lot about race in the Air Force. None of it good. The next 40 years have only confirmed what I learned then. And you know the rest, Pro.

Originally posted by donwhite
Racism is rampant in America. It is the major destructive force in our society. Only white people are actively racists. What do you want me to say?

What rock are you living under, "only white people are activley racist", that's about the most misinformed statement I've ever heard. Ever heard of the Black Panthers & The Nation of Islam (among others). This assumption that only white people are racist is really getting old.

It also bugs me that many refer to anti-white sentiment as "reverse-racism". Racism is racism no matter which way it's directed. And it's all BAD!

P.S. - I may have missed it in the thread, but one thing most of the justice skirters discussed in this thread have in common that wasn't touched on is celebrity. We treat celebs different, reguardless of race. Granted, most celebs are going to be rich as well. I do think donwhite made a very good point about how much effect the delaying of the court case had on the outcome though.

[edit on 5/2/2006 by yadboy]

There's a school of thought that says racism is a power thing. It's not just about the dislike, it's about the power and ability to oppress based on race. In that context, they argue, it is impossible for the subjects of the oppression to be racist because they cannot in turn, oppress their oppressors.

That is why racism is ugly. It's not about simple hate...it's also the power to be ugly and oppressive. Individual African Americans can dislike whites 'till the cows come home, but it is powerless.

Open minds will consider that for a bit, before spewing.

[edit on 2-5-2006 by NotClever]