Israel's Secret Weapons Facility - 3D tour

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
1. How many nukes does Israel have?
2. Where are the nukes located that Israel has?
3. When is Israel going to give the outside world access to Dimona so they can see what is going on in there?

The US has the RIGHT to answers for those questions having given a massive amount of money and support to Israel over the years...

I would has at a guess the US know exactly what is going on with the ISraeli nuclear weapons prgram, just because it isn't made public doesn't mean that the US is in thee dark.

The first Israeli weapons were made from US material

Originally posted by mad scientist

Originally posted by rich23
In Iraq, president Qasim was deposed - after the CIA paid Saddam to assassinate him - and the Ba'athists were backed.

The CIA paid Saddam to assinate him

Never heard that before, are you sure you have your facts straight ?

Here's one source:

In 1959, there was a failed assassination attempt on Qasim. The failed assassin was none other than a young Saddam Hussein. In 1963, a CIA-organized coup did successfully assassinate Qasim and Saddam's Ba'ath Party came to power for the first time. Saddam returned from exile in Egypt and took up the key post as head of Iraq's secret service. The CIA then provided the new pliant, Iraqi regime with the names of thousands of communists, and other leftist activists and organizers. Thousands of these supporters of Qasim and his policies were soon dead in a rampage of mass murder carried out by the CIA's close friends in Iraq.

One of my Iraqi friends came to this country to flee exactly that "rampage of mass murder".

Here's another source:

While many have thought that Saddam first became involved with U.S. intelligence agencies at the start of the September 1980 Iran-Iraq war, his first contacts with U.S. officials date back to 1959, when he was part of a CIA-authorized six-man squad tasked with assassinating then Iraqi Prime Minister Gen. Abd al-Karim Qasim.

...

According to another former senior State Department official, Saddam, while only in his early 20s, became a part of a U.S. plot to get rid of Qasim. According to this source, Saddam was installed in an apartment in Baghdad on al-Rashid Street directly opposite Qasim's office in Iraq's Ministry of Defense, to observe Qasim's movements.

Adel Darwish, Middle East expert and author of "Unholy Babylon," said the move was done "with full knowledge of the CIA," and that Saddam's CIA handler was an Iraqi dentist working for CIA and Egyptian intelligence. U.S. officials separately confirmed Darwish's account.

Double post - sorry, there seems to be a lot of traffic right now...

[edit on 1-5-2006 by rich23]

Originally posted by rich23
#The Sabra and Chatila massacre had 2000 victims, at least, according to Phalangist officers and the Palestinian Red Crescent. Are there any restaurants with 2000 people in them? Is there a government that is responsible for that?

This was truely a tragic event. However it would be gross ignorance to view it as an intentional pre-meditated Israeli strike.

The Phalangists, who were previously united as reliable Israeli allies, were now split because of developing alliances with Syria, which opposed Israel. They were uncontrolable. It would be completely out of character for Israel to launch such heavy handed tactics. It would also be out of the question as the Israeli military is all to aware that they are being watched constantly by the global media.

What the Phalangists di in that camp is horrific and is unexcusable. But not only were they refusing to follow orders, but they were quite clearly going agianst orders. They refused to pull out at the correct time, and used tactics which were quite sub-human.

Please do not jump at the chance to attribute anything that Israel was loosely involved in as being a direct order from Jerusalem.

To this day, there has been only one official enquiry, that of the Israeli Commission chaired by Yitzhak Kahan, president of the Supreme Court, published in 1983. It points the finger at the Phalangists and, to a lesser degree, Ariel Sharon. The report first speaks of a grave mistake by Sharon, who failed to exercise supervision and prevent the massacres. It describes it as "puzzling" that Sharon did not in any way make Menachem Begin "privy to the decision to have the Phalangists enter the camps". It concludes that "responsibility has to be imputed to him for not ordering appropriate measures for preventing or remedying the danger of massacres". Sharon, it said, bore "personal responsibility" and must draw the personal conclusions.

I need hardly mention that Noam Chomsky has described this verdict, damning as it is, as a whitewash. Although I respect and admire his scholarship, I've chosen other sources (like this one, whence comes the quotation above, as I would assume you'd criticise Chomsky for being a "self-hating Jew", the rhetoric reserved for Jewish people who speak out at the excesses of the Israeli government.

Another little snippet of eyewitness testimony:

Um Shawki, 52, lost 17 members of her family, including a 12-year-old son and her husband. She lived in the Bir Hassan district near the Kuwaiti embassy. After 1982, she moved with her 12 surviving children to the main street in Shatila and lives on the fourth floor of a poorly constructed building. Her apartment is clean; artificial flowers complement its soft furnishings and pictures are stuck or nailed to the walls, of Al Quds (Jerusalem) and the Hamas flag. She does not belong to Hamas: "I don’t belong to any organisation. I would only join when I was sure of the outcome." And her children? "I don’t want them to sacrifice themselves for anything, but on the day I am certain of getting my revenge, I’ll encourage them and be at their side."

Day and night she revisits the memories of the corpses, the mutilated bodies, the husband and son she never saw again, and whose fate she never knew. The colours of her room do not brighten her sombre dress and eyes. She is unsmiling. She becomes angry, though she does not raise her voice, as she relives her family’s second tragedy, the first being their departure in 1948 from Tarisha, a village near Haifa. "Someone knocked at the door and said: ’We are Lebanese, we have come to search for weapons’. My husband opened the door. He was not worried because he didn’t belong to any fighting group. He worked at the golf club, near the airport."

She spoke of three Israeli soldiers and a soldier from the Lebanese Forces, the rightwing Christian militia. They entered the house, took her daughter’s bracelets, tore out her own earrings - one of her earlobes is still torn - and beat them.

Israeli soldiers let the Phalangists in and assisted in their crimes: the nod came from Sharon, as even the official enquiry couldn't dodge. Live in denial all you want.

Like other Palestinian families, Um Shawki’s family was taken inside the camps. "We were put in a lorry that took us to the entrance to the Shatila camp. The soldiers separated the men from the women and children. The Lebanese took the papers from three cousins and then shot them before our eyes. My husband, my son and other cousins were taken away by the Israelis." The women and children went on foot to the sports centre. By the roadside, women were crying and weeping, claiming that all the men had been killed. During the evening, in the chaos, Um Shawki and her children fled to the Al Helou barracks district.

At first light, she left her children in a school and went to find out what had happened to her husband and son. She was not able to speak to any of the Israeli officers present. She heard orders being given in Arabic for the men to have their identity cards stamped.

She saw an Israeli lorry full of adults and youngsters. A woman in tears, who had lost her whole family, showed her where the corpses had been dumped. The two women went to the Orsal district and climbed over Lebanese, Palestinian and Syrian dead. Um Shawki says that she saw hundreds of the dead. Most of the victims were in the Orsal district.

"They were unrecognisable, their faces deformed and swollen. I saw 28 corpses of members of the same Lebanese family, including two disembowelled women. I tried to spot the clothing of my son and husband. I searched all day and went back the next day. I didn’t recognise the body of anyone from Bir Hassan." Um Shawki saw Lebanese soldiers dig ditches to bury the dead. She never found her husband and son.

She finds it even harder to talk about her daughter, who was raped. "I think about that day and night. I have brought up my children alone. I had to beg. I shall never forget. I want revenge for that.

And so the cycle continues.

[edit on 1-5-2006 by rich23]