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Israel's Secret Weapons Facility - 3D tour

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posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 05:45 AM
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Amidst all the fuss about Iran everyone seems to have forgotten that, in violation of the NPT, Israel has at least 2000 nukes. This link is to a video report taking you on a 3D tour of Dimona, Israel's secret weapons plant which can manufacture not only nuclear but thermonuclear bombs.

It's been specifically designed to fool inspectors, and the reactor that powers it is two to three times more powerful than Israel admits. They produce enough material for a new bomb every two to three weeks. Mordechai Vannunu smuggled out photos that are the basis for the animation.

And everyone's worried about Iran? Why the hell are the Israelis making so many bombs? Yes, they're surrounded by hostile nations but as long as the US continues along its PNAC schedule that won't last long.




posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 05:55 AM
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Very nice video, although hardly surprisng. I dont know what more to say because no way will the west ever try to say otherwise about these facilities.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 06:42 AM
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I have to say I'm a little disappointed that this thread was moved from the war on terror area: I think it's worth comparing attitudes to Israel and Iran along with their capabilities.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 07:33 AM
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Plus Vanunu is a very reliable witness. No, this does not surprise me one bit. And if you have the capabilities, and are able to hide the fact you are overproducing, why not?

This is one of the reasons the nuclear balance in the Middle East needs to be restored ASAP, before an ´accident´ happens which wipes out everything East of the Gaza strip.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 04:24 PM
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holy crap... I didnt think a country that small would be ranked as 5th or 6th as a nuclear power... hell I can hardly find it on a world map... dang... omg... woah... is this reliable???



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 06:18 PM
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The source was Mordechai Vannunu. I think he's still in jail.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by rich23
Amidst all the fuss about Iran everyone seems to have forgotten that, in violation of the NPT, Israel has at least 2000 nukes. This link is to a video report taking you on a 3D tour of Dimona, Israel's secret weapons plant which can manufacture not only nuclear but thermonuclear bombs.

It's been specifically designed to fool inspectors, and the reactor that powers it is two to three times more powerful than Israel admits. They produce enough material for a new bomb every two to three weeks. Mordechai Vannunu smuggled out photos that are the basis for the animation.

And everyone's worried about Iran? Why the hell are the Israelis making so many bombs? Yes, they're surrounded by hostile nations but as long as the US continues along its PNAC schedule that won't last long.


OH Noes it's the JOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSS! LOL

Please, call the nukes a handicap. You know they have population of what 6-7 mil. They are surrounded by 1 billion Muslims, most of whom live in countries with governments that are/was/is hostile to the concept of a Jewish homeland. I think it is a fair trade. 1,000,000,000 Muslims VS 200 nukes. Keeps things honest. Beside what guarantee does Israel have that the USA will be there….Oh that is right the JOOOOOOOOS run everything, right?

But nice moral equivocation though. Last time I checked Israel has not be spouting off about wiping out all of Iran....just the ability to create 1-2 weapons necessary to wipe out Israel.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 07:19 PM
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OH Noes it's the JOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSS! LOL


Barely worth replying to, really. Why don't you just come right out with it and call me an anti-Semitic Holocaust Denier?

I just find the whole business of the US propping Israel up quite weird. The amount of US aid that Israel's had is, by some estimates, into the trillions of dollars by now. Is there another country in the world that is the beneficiary of such largesse? Is there another country whose lobby faction in the US is as powerful? Is there another country that has defied more UN resoltions with US support? Please feel free to name names and cite statistics if you can demonstrate that there is. The pro-Israeli lobby even prevented the play My Name Is Rachael Corrie from transferring to Broadway.

Personally, I just think there's some kind of weird karmic thing going on with Israel. The Jewish people had serious, not-to-be-trivialised evil visited upon them thanks to Adolf and his disciples... so now they get to kick the Palestinians off their homeland and visit all kinds of evil on them. Ah, what moral fibre there is to be had in cultivating a victim mentality. It was particularly egregious in the US in the days after 9/11. The people seem to be awakening from their blood-lust now - or some of them, at any rate - but that incident was carte blanche to invade... oh, almost anywhere, really.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 07:28 PM
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As much as I dislike the idea of their having WOMD's they are not in violation of NPT as they were never signees of that treaty. They are not part of any nuclear treaty or are they monitored in any way. They have an immunity of some sort and seem to be exempt from any type of oversight.



posted on Apr, 29 2006 @ 10:14 PM
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They need the nukes for deterence. Theyd be completely f****** without them. Its a mainly jewish state surrounded by muslims. They'd be invaded so fast if they saw any weakness. Israel bombs crap mostly to make an example of people so that they are not invaded.



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by rich23


I just find the whole business of the US propping Israel up quite weird. The amount of US aid that Israel's had is, by some estimates, into the trillions of dollars by now.


Hmm. complete BS, Israel has recieved nowhere near a trillion dollars in aid from the US. This mass over exaggeration does not help your credibility.



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 04:10 AM
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Originally posted by rich23
The source was Mordechai Vannunu. I think he's still in jail.

No he's been released from jail but is forbidden to speak with any outside reporters and cannot leave the country. Guess its a sort of house arrest type deal.


Your numbers on aid are off but still the numbers are extremely high

$91 Billion from 1949 to about 2000. Their total is about 1/6th of annual foreign budget..a big chunk of change.
Source
Source



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 08:11 AM
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Thanks, PieMan, for doing some work I couldn't be bothered to do, though as it turns out I'm having to do it anyway.

As your source itself admits, it is a conservative estimate of foreign aid. I read another estimate ages ago that suggested aid had passed the trillion mark. I should have been more precise, and will, just for the hell of it, try and find some other estimates that point us in that direction.

Here's an article that suggests that the totals you cite are underestimates:

For many years the American media said that "Israel receives $1.8 billion in military aid" or that "Israel receives $1.2 billion in economic aid." Both statements were true, but since they were never combined to give us the complete total of annual U.S. aid to Israel, they also were lies--true lies...

Recently Americans have begun to read and hear that "Israel receives $3 billion in annual U.S. foreign aid." That's true. But it's still a lie. The problem is that in fiscal 1997 alone, Israel received from a variety of other U.S. federal budgets at least $525.8 million above and beyond its $3 billion from the foreign aid budget, and yet another $2 billion in federal loan guarantees. So the complete total of U.S. grants and loan guarantees to Israel for fiscal 1997 was $5,525,800,000.


This article also makes the following useful comparison:

The per capita U.S. foreign aid to Israel's 5.8 million people during the same period was $10,775.48. This meant that for every dollar the U.S. spent on an African, it spent $250.65 on an Israeli, and for every dollar it spent on someone from the Western Hemisphere outside the United States, it spent $214 on an Israeli.


There's also this factor to be taken into account:

True Cost to U.S. Taxpayers

Generous as it is, what Israelis actually got in U.S. aid is considerably less than what it has cost U.S. taxpayers to provide it. The principal difference is that so long as the U.S. runs an annual budget deficit, every dollar of aid the U.S. gives Israel has to be raised through U.S. government borrowing.

In an article in the Washington Report for December 1991/January 1992, Frank Collins estimated the costs of this interest, based upon prevailing interest rates for every year since 1949. I have updated this by applying a very conservative 5 percent interest rate for subsequent years, and confined the amount upon which the interest is calculated to grants, not loans or loan guarantees.

On this basis the $84.8 billion in grants, loans and commodities Israel has received from the U.S. since 1949 cost the U.S. an additional $49,936,880,000 in interest.


The point is, whatever figures you take - and I certainly think it's not unreasonable to believe that 'official' figures are massaged to disguise the overall total and additional costs incurred - it is, as you say, a big chunk of change. Does any other country receive anything similar? No, so why Israel?



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by rich23
The point is, whatever figures you take - and I certainly think it's not unreasonable to believe that 'official' figures are massaged to disguise the overall total and additional costs incurred - it is, as you say, a big chunk of change. Does any other country receive anything similar? No, so why Israel?


Hmm, probably because Israel is the only democratic country inthe MIddle East, probably the only stable country as well. Without Israel the US wouldn't have any militarily strong allies in the middle east. Also Israeli intelligence from MOSSAD the Shin Bet and others would be worth a fortune, they have been able to infiltrate where no western intelligence agency can.

Anyhow, just a few reasons, there are many more.



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by mad scientist
Hmm, probably because Israel is the only democratic country inthe MIddle East, probably the only stable country as well. Without Israel the US wouldn't have any militarily strong allies in the middle east.


Ok... but there were democratic countries in the ME and the US toppled the regimes: both Iran and Iraq were thriving, westernising democracies but their democratically elected presidents wanted to get a better deal from the multinationals for their countries' oil. Result: Mossadegh was deposed (by the endearingly named Kermit Roosevelt of the CIA, no less) and the Shah - with US-trained and -armed secret police the SAVAK - returned to power, ushering a reign of political repression, torture and disappearances that lasted until Islamic fundamentalism started to look like a good option. In Iraq, president Qasim was deposed - after the CIA paid Saddam to assassinate him - and the Ba'athists were backed.

Saddam WAS our ally, remember?

No, there's a shell-game going on with all the other countries but Israel. And Israel's influence in the US is far greater than any other country's. That, at least, is an undeniable fact, surely? Is there any other country the US backs so firmly in the UN?

I'm not a Holocaust denier, or an anti-semite (a term which, correctly, includes Arabs too, something that's always forgotten). But just because the Jewish people suffered in the Holocaust doesn't mean that Israel should be supported as they massacre Palestinians (Sabra and Chatila), build an apartheid society, and perform targeted assassinations anywhere in the world.



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 01:39 PM
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great find .

it would be even better if they guy what the one comentating or if there were more pictures



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by rich23


I'm not a Holocaust denier, or an anti-semite (a term which, correctly, includes Arabs too, something that's always forgotten). But just because the Jewish people suffered in the Holocaust doesn't mean that Israel should be supported as they massacre Palestinians (Sabra and Chatila), build an apartheid society, and perform targeted assassinations anywhere in the world.


Right you are to the commenly made misconception that 'anti-semetic' refers only anti Jewish feeling. It does infact refer to a wider ethnic group from the middle east.

However, then starts the fiction.

Firstly the little "holocaust guilt" card hasnt been used by Israel since just after its inception when it was so desperate for weapons (to defend itself from a ring of hostile neigbours). If you were to ever say things in everyday cnversation you would find yourself branded an ignorant racist. On who does not even think about what he says.

Next, the "massacre"?? I'll tell you what a massacre is. A massacre is when a religous fantic enters a pizza restuarant full of teenagers and blows himself up. A massacre is when Palestianian school children are taught how to use explosives when they should be learning math. A massacre is a time when Palestiaian mothers hate Israel more than they love their own children.

Lastly when you say "apartheid" you are obviously trying to draw similarities to South Africa?? Well when Israel is faced with a selection of fundementalist madmen each calling for the destruction a nation so small it is possible to circumnavigate in a day. I ask you who is the oppresed minority when Israel is the only Jewish state in the world; the only sustained democracy in the middle east??

Of course America spends a lot of money on Israel, but do you, or anyone else, stop to consider how much America would spend on other countries such as Iran or Afganistan if it wasnt for the fact that they decend into chaos and civil war. The reason so much is invested in Israel is that the US actually see results from it. They see Israel investing in one of the best health care systems in the world. A system which has the highest ER survival rate globally. A nation which invests in high tech industires. Which looks to trade and commerce as a way to bridge social or idealogical divides.

The Zionist movement is hated across the world, it is viewed with both fear and hatred. The attidue of "those damn Jews are stealing all the money" is sadly still alive and well. Only today it is loosely disguised as "anit-Zionism" rather than racial hatred. The truth is that Zionism is the driving force in Israel which encourages people to work towards a better future. It is the reason why Israelis every day go to work. So that they can build a better future for their children than the dangerous times that they have unfortunately had to live through.

So yes, America spends a lot of money on Israel. But if something works, its worth putting effort into it.

Jensy



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by rich23
In Iraq, president Qasim was deposed - after the CIA paid Saddam to assassinate him - and the Ba'athists were backed.


The CIA paid Saddam to assinate him
Never heard that before, are you sure you have your facts straight ?



posted on Apr, 30 2006 @ 11:58 PM
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Great topic for a thread but your title could have been a bit more exciting...

Seen that vid and it is great!

What I want to know is the following:

1. How many nukes does Israel have?
2. Where are the nukes located that Israel has?
3. When is Israel going to give the outside world access to Dimona so they can see what is going on in there?

The US has the RIGHT to answers for those questions having given a massive amount of money and support to Israel over the years...

and Israel owes it to the first world to be on the level with them if it wants to be seen as an ALLY with the rest of us.

Otherwise why would anybody in their right mind trust Israel?



posted on May, 1 2006 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by jensy

Next, the "massacre"?? I'll tell you what a massacre is. A massacre is when a religous fantic enters a pizza restuarant full of teenagers and blows himself up.


The Sabra and Chatila massacre had 2000 victims, at least, according to Phalangist officers and the Palestinian Red Crescent. Are there any restaurants with 2000 people in them? Is there a government that is responsible for that?


Mrs Sersawi, three months pregnant, saw her husband Hassan, 30, and her Egyptian brother-in-law Faraj el-Sayed Ahmed standing in the crowd of men. "We were told to walk up the road towards the Kuwaiti embassy, the women and children in front, the men behind. We had been separated. There were Phalangist militiamen and Israeli soldiers walking alongside us. I could still see Hassan and Faraj. It was like a parade. There were several hundred of us. When we got to the Cite Sportif, the Israelis put us women in a big concrete room and the men were taken to another side of the stadium. There were a lot of men from the camp and I could no longer see my husband. The Israelis went round saying 'Sit, sit.' It was 11am. An hour later, we were told to leave. But we stood around outside amid the Israeli soldiers, waiting for our men."

Sana Sersawi waited in the bright, sweltering sun for Hassan and Faraj to emerge. "Some men came out, none of them younger than 40, and they told us to be patient, that hundreds of men were still inside. Then about 4pm, an Israeli officer came out. He was wearing dark glasses and said in Arabic: 'What are you all waiting for?' He said there was nobody left, that everyone had gone. There were Israeli trucks moving out with tarpaulin over them. We couldn't see inside. And there were jeeps and tanks and a bulldozer making a lot of noise. We stayed there as it got dark and the Israelis appeared to be leaving and we were very nervous. But then when the Israelis had moved away, we went inside. And there was no one there. Nobody. I had been only three years married. I never saw my husband again."


Find the rest of the story here.

I say 'apartheid' because that's what it looks like. Daniel Barenboim was on the radio the other day, delivering the Reith lectures from Palestine. He was acutely conscious of the difficulty and humiliation the people there to hear him talk had to undergo just to get to the venue. The wall is viewed about as favourably, across the world, as the Berlin wall. And the deaths of Rachel Corrie and the many others like her are inexcusable.

Call me a racist all you want. I know I'm not, so it really doesn't bother me. What I object to is what people do, not what their ethnic background is, nor their religion.



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