How to Identify Misinformation

Most disinformation these days is an effort by a team.

When you see multiple sources pop up at about the same time, they're all trying to get a bonus.

Dae, thanks for the vote, I apritiate it. How exactly the points system actually works still escapse me, but I apritiate the though.

orangetom1999, you brough up exellent points;

What I have also given though about is can disinformation/misinformation be passed on or promoted to the public through statistics and studys. In otherwords can statistics and studys be politically motivated and not for the public consumption or good but for the purposes of control of the public.

That issue was investigated in deapth by a jeurnalist, and I found his article very interesting.

Before I go into it, thanks for this one;

it is so refreshing to run across someone who doesnt think all stamped/xeroxed out. Gives one hope.

Boy do I know how you feel. Let's keep that hope going, so I'll get back to the topic of "education".

Apperently such methods have been used for decades. While an illusion is created that there are literally thousands of all kinds of texbooks, and that each school distric is free to choose what ever they consider apropriate, in reality there are only four companyes which hold a total monopoly of the educational text book market.

The books them selves are not written by proffessors, but by unknown people who do not have a reputation to protect, thus all the misspellings, twisting of the facts, and outward fallacyes which are tough to our children.

There are a lot of resources on the net about all kinds of parent groups which repetedly attempt to raise these questions, and unfortunelty to no avail.

Disinformation is specifically targeted, and when it comes to the internet and the yonger generation, forums, blogs, and Wikipedia are perfect examples of such methods.

On the topic of Wikipedia, simply go to www.wikitruth.info... and www.wired.com... All explained.

Same thing with blogs. These days it's the topic of Israli/Lebanese war, specifically the issue of "Hezbollawood". It's just a part of a specifically ingeneered disinformation campaing. When enough presence has been achiven, media simply references such internet activety as an offitial publick oppinion.

In reality people in offices and or homes simply get paided to spread such lies by endlessly repeating such "oppinions", and maliciosly attack anyone who disagrees. It's a standard discriditation tecknique based on group mentality.

Exactly the same teckniqes are used in so called "ambush advertising." Advertising reps pose as strangers and ingage people in what they present as a casuall conversation, while in reality they are on the payroll to sell products.

Same thing with internet propoganda. Paid agents present them selfes as simply another participant, while in reality they are on the job.

Keep an eye out for a news story on this topic, it's going to break soon. The pressure is mounting and now it's a political issue. Certain laws have been passed to "regulate" blogs, legitimise Wikipedia, issue like illigal election campaing contributions, people on the payroll engaging in blog/forum based political smear campaings to discredit the opponent and to advocate the candidate that's paying the bill, use of internet media for political agitation, subversion, hate campaings, the list goes on.

Keep the hope, dig around, it's increadibly wicked out there, and "net kids" are up to their necks in it.

Most disinformation these days is an effort by a team.

When you see multiple sources pop up at about the same time, they're all trying to get a bonus.

Absolutely correct.

The interesting thing is that the IPs of such eager go getters have been tracked for a some time now, linking them to telecom corporations, government agencies, and other interesting places out side of US borders.

Various data mining engines have been gathering the particulars of their activities, including the computer generated ones.

Statistical data bases have been compiled, to be used as EVIDENCE.

So keep "cut and pasting" away boys and gals of the wikiland, the fun is just beginning, and the questions are coming

YOu are talking about "Control" how to control people. How to control thoughts even vocabulary. Control voabulary or how a word is used or misused you control thinking ..control thinking you control actions of people. It become the new default setting.

A huge approach I have noticed is controlling people through base or baser emotions or emotional appeal. Peoples thinking of right and wrong is emotionally based..not based on facts..or truth. This to my line of thinking was popularized by the talk show format going back to PHil Donahue....way back when that idiot used to run clean across the stage to stick the microphone in front of another person with a "victimization " story. This was quickly picked up on by the competition and also by the body politic as a control mechanizism.
The body politic today uses the "victim dictim " to play through and control political thought on the unperceptive and pre programmed. This is clear to me and getting more sophisticated in its use/misuse. Recent Hurricanes have brought this concept clearly to light in my mind..both by the public use of the "Victim Dictum " and the use of it by the body politic. This is clear. Because it is used or misused to play the next step which is the "Blame Game" and graduating to the next political tool..the "Default setting" allowing one to politically play thorough while others must stand pat and pay up. I call this a "political shakedown."
It begins with the "victim dictum" and the program runs to the "Political shakedown" and it is a program being run on a gullible imperceptive public groomed to be emotionally fleeced either for moneys or votes or both.

This control mechanism is a more sophisticated from of direction/misdirection in which the controlled dont even know it is being done.



One of my pet peeves is people describing a moral dilemma or a thought or idea by some "Movie " they have seen. I see this over and over in people to whom I speak.
It comes across as them having no real life experiences of thier own but they can relate second hand by movies and television shows. When you become aware of it you realize how second hand so many live. Sort of vicarious living per se.
As if what is right is what is portrayed by Maury Povich...and that type of movie/televison genre.....do I need to take a lie detector test on this one??

Sickening to me ..Sickening. Have you noticed this one ..of which I speak..the second hand movie thing Isklander??

As you can tell I am quick to pass judgement with my remote controller.

As to this buisness with the blogs..I suspect that there have been to many people blogging or chatting passing ideas around ..to many people spreading the "virus " of independent thought. Somehow these people have managed to get outside of thier public school(television/movie ) education and are thinking outside the limits authorized. Even a handful are to many.

I notice that on this blog..ATS..many of the thoughts or thinking patterns are pretty much stamped out ...shoveling back what the news or some "expert " on the news says.

There are however occasionally..enough really independent thinking people out here to make it very intresting when you run across one who can think outside of the blocks so to speak or thinks and speaks from obvious experience. This is what I believe someone wants to identify ...these types of people. This virus type thinking cannot be allowed to compete with the body politic for control.

On the subject of school textbooks...I am aware that in public schools...the education is payed for by the Government/politicians. In my "bias" there is no way a Government or Professional politicians are going to give you enough education to put light on what they are really doing. This would be suicide for them. THerefore they must also regulate what is printed in the textbooks.

Once you make the connection with public education being paid for by the body politic ..it becomes clear...and simple.

It doesnt matter what field you go into..

Yes I am also aware of the parental concerns about education.
I have surmised that if a parent wants to make a difference in thier childrens lives..they must take them away from the television and peer groups more often and give them specific instruction and experience...not vicarious knowlege through the "boob tube" and peer group pressures...ie...pressures to be a better consumer and define yourself by what you consume ..not by what you know and can do

It does however ..apper that certain people are able to escape the programming.
What I notice is that they dont always speak of it ..and are also very selective as to whom they tell.
My experience with this is because I live very close to the NASA Langley Reserach Center. Off the record some of them will tell you some intresting things.
Same with the military...which is also politically controlled...for the purposes of the body politic.


As for Hezbollawood..my thoughts on this are different from most peoples.
My opinion on this is that the Lebanese problems of recent was a feint....to probe how the Syrians and Iranians will work and operate. A test run if you like...
Particularly command and control and the buisness of re arming. Israel did the foot work in this feint for us. Thats just a opinion ..you dont have to buy that one at all.

I say this because the real war appears not to started as of yet.
The public is being groomed for it . To me this has been happening since before 9/11 and accelerating faster now.


Ambush advertising ..that is my opinion of the infomercials...and the canned planned audiences. Never heard of it by that term Ambush Advertising but it fits..thanks for that one.

Regulate Blogs...regulation is control.

THanks for your post Isklander,
Orangetom

It's been my experience disinformation relies heavily on most's level of denial.
If enough don't want to believe, others feel pressured to remain silent.
There's the classic "that's crazy, you might need help" approach. And the ever present "you won't be cool".

Denial....You mean..like ignorance is bliss???

I would mostly agree if this is your point.

However...to reiterate the point in my last post. Even a handful who dont live in denial is going to be to many. These people must be identified, located, and marked. Micromanaged.

In a manner this cult of denial ...organized/managed denial is a type of Feudalism.
A return to Feudalism. We just use technology and new techniques to carry this out...psychological conditioning. It is still a type of Olde Feudalism. A few running the many for their purposes. A Royalty running the many for their purposes....while giving and educating the people to think they are free.

To me maintaining that denial is what most television and movies are about. Same with much of music. All change agents. All used/misused by the body politic...including education....and I am begining to question the medical field.

THanks,
Orangetom

It might be helpful to describe for us average people that have not quite overcome our public school educations, an effective way to view the information coming at us from all the electronic forms of media, so we can sort fact from fiction or misinformation?

I've always blieved that if the data supporting a fact is not 100% true, it is false.
Unfortunately, that means pretty much everything put out into the ether is false.

I'm not sure that trying to logically pick out the valid data from the invalid is the best way to find the truth.

Might it not be simpler to look at what's not being said, and infer that the information is basically false, then ask "why"? What would they be hidding?

If the axiom that "the truth hides in plain sight" is usually true, might it not be easier to find a way or methodology to uncover something in plain sight, rather than looking for the misinformation?

Maybe the a heuristic maxim known as Occam's razor is applicable here?

Just an idea

In my mind ..education is not just teaching you things or facts..but also teaching you a logical reasonable manner of putting the facts together in some kind of coherent usable format for your benifit..not for someone elses benifit or control.

In otherwords the process of such reasoning is also taught.
One of these processes is language skills. Knowing what words mean and do not mean. The processes of putting them together so that one can describe a concept or idea from me to you ....in something other than a feeling I have or a four letter word...for that feeling. Organizing the language in a logical reasonable flow ...to describe the concept being transmitted by textual skills/vocal skills......language.

This ,to me, is also education ...

This is not what is being taught in schools now days. There is a abscence of facts..and a abscence of the method of putting together what facts one has for ones own benifit.

THanks,
Orangetom

Absence.... -5 Spelling.

Orangetom.

Originally posted by orangetom1999


Denial....You mean..like ignorance is bliss???

More like ignoring suits my needs.
The tendency these days of most seems to be of the nature that if something does not fit the model, it will not be tolerated.

I'll step out on a limb and say most won't believe in something like aliens because the aliens won't create some type of Eutopia where everyones greatest desires are met, and all is well.

I agree..if something does not fit the model....it will not be tolerated...

I see this alot in political arenas. It has become a buisness of one group trying to substitute thier model for the other group's model......for votes to stay in power.

Intrestingly enough ..it boils down to the awareness that those who claim tolerance are not very tolerant.

Thanks,
Orangetom

orangetom1999, good stuff. I've been tied up on other threads, but will get back to this topic ASAP.

Did anybody notice that after my "So keep "cut and pasting" away boys and gals of the wikiland, the fun is just beginning, and the questions are coming: comment, the entire ATS forum web site has changed completely, new categories have been created?

Kind of like the "matrix" shift isn't it?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't see any announcements that the ATS board will go through "remodeling".

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm wondering if you could apply your technique to a story that circulated around the web about the time traveling stock trader from 200 years in the future.
I'm told that the story on the web is obvious "mis-information" but that there was an actual AP and UPI story that preceeded it. This preceeding information has been sanatized... Any way your methodolgy would illuminate the possiblity of a real person that was investigated by the SEC? Or once the information is Sanatized, its to late to get to any truth?

I'm wondering if you could apply your technique to a story that circulated around the web about the time traveling stock trader from 200 years in the future.
I'm told that the story on the web is obvious "mis-information" but that there was an actual AP and UPI story that preceeded it.

Red_Dog_BOM, it's not my methodology. Much as I can't say that logic is MINE. It's just is.

Even though historical sensitization has always been a part of history (it's the victor that right History, revisionism is all the rage especially these days. Yet in most cases more then enough information is out there to put the pieces together.

Especially in the good old days, people kept detailed journals and biographies.

Churches, post offices, doctors/hospital all kept detailed records.

Check out this thread to see a basic example of how to take disinformation apart piece by piece, and find the definite answer to how things really are.

politics.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 29-8-2006 by iskander]

I read your thread on the video footage, and I'm again impressed with your ability to disect the varioius facts and mis-information piece by tiny piece! That is quite a skill you've got and it makes me wonder at who you work for in the real world.

Can you imagine having a few similarly skilled people like yourself working to disseminate information for the goverment? Or analysing intelligence data pouring into the goverment.

Yes, you've got a very handy skill. One I would be hard pressed to even approach.

I read your thread on the video footage, and I'm again impressed with your ability to disect the varioius facts and mis-information piece by tiny piece! That is quite a skill you've got and it makes me wonder at who you work for in the real world.

Good question. Since I already mentioned it on other posts, at one point I did work for FOX networks. The job was offered, it was not a resume type of a situation, and after about two years I resigned.

Again, since I've mentioned it on ATS before, shortly I'll be going to Russia on a work related trip, and if it works I might stay there for a while.

Can you imagine having a few similarly skilled people like yourself working to disseminate information for the goverment? Or analysing intelligence data pouring into the goverment.

That scenario does not have to be imagined. Various think tanks have been working on all kinds of issues for decades. These days politics are fully engineered by such think tanks. National and world policies are being developed by private sector, and not by elected officials.

When it comes to economy, there is a phenomena called "intellectual extortion." (inx) A think tank monitors various economic fields, tracks activities of companies, and when they figure out any given angle, they publish a version of their findings with just enough detail to tip of a targeted company. In order to minimize possible fall out, that company simply 'hires" that particular think tank to do absolutely nothing, while in reality they are just paying them of.

Yes, you've got a very handy skill. One I would be hard pressed to even approach.

It's not hard at all. When it comes to politics and media, the initial approach has to be from the understanding that it is product, and evaluated as such.

It's no different when any given product is evaluated and scrutinized by individuals who have first hand experience with such product. It's all it is.

Isklander,

You posted:

"It's not hard at all. When it comes to politics and media, the initial approach has to be from the understanding that it is product, and evaluated as such. "

I agree ..in politics and the media they are selling a product. And like a product..alot of it is image..not necessarily a reality..especially with Politics.

Here is the problem at which I have arrived over a number of years.

Any buisness selling a "product" ..in order to maintain the buisness in solvency ..must deliver the product advertised.

THe problem morally I have with politics is that they do not manage to deliver the product advertised..and yet they can stay in buisness...of this type of institutionalized fraud.....year after year after year. No matter what party it is they can still manage to stay in buisness.

Ordinary buisness with any type of morality and accounting ...would go out of buisness or be bought up by another buisness if they were not able to deliver the product as advertised...but not politics...

They manage to get the overly emotional American ..returning again and again to the voting booth ..pulling levers...and very little changes.

Politics is the only buisness of which I can think...that does not deliver the product advertises and the ignorant public thinks this is normal. WHat a con job. You have to be institutionally educated...(public education/television education) not to catch this angle of this type of fraud. Remember politics pays for public education..they will teach you what they want you to know...no escaping this ..unless you can break the "blockade."

YOu would think that if it was a legitimate buisness they would make a mistake in favor of the American public every often...but does this happen.???

Sooner or later the dumbest individual begins to add the numbers up and realize they are coming up short.

You can actually apply this to any political scene in any country...not just this one.

As to the media...to me they are just shills for the political system...no matter what network. They are the cheerleading chorus. This is just a carry on/continuation of your public education,especially when it comes to politics.

Remember what I stated...Politics is the only career where you dont have to deliver the product advertised and the pubic thinks this is normal. No problem ..right back to the voting booth..to pull more levers.
Keep this in mind when you watch the news concerning politics and the angle of not delivering the product advertised ..between elections...verses the promises.

What was that about Wikiland??

And yes isklander..I think you are correct on the think tanks...though I also believe they do more than this.

THanks,
Orangetom

To most people a conspiracy theory is an idea to answer a question that is NOT publicly sanctioned. Thus in their uninformed minds it cannot be the truth. Most thinking people would examine the story for its relative merits before tossing it.. but alas we all have our agendas too. It is not that profitable to have ideas that the system does not like nor supports.

I have difficulty wrapping my mind around the process your describe Iskander, but I grasp the flavor of what you are implying. Which oddly enough, after Oranges following comment about us saps not getting what we are voting for, makes me wonder in a conspiracy ATS kind of way....

Some think tank (for lack of a better word), came up with that proposal, "don't deliver what you promise". This would be a great way for Americans to decide they did not need this false democracy any longer and with NAFTA like thinking, decide to merge our country with Canada and Mexico, wherein there would not really be any elections henceforth. Or at the very least, our entire system of goverment would take another big leap to the Left.

I suspect the "Right" already has concerns about this trend towards globalization of our way of life, and there is nobody more "Right" than our Military.
I can only wonder what would happen if this weakness is presented in clear concise terms to our Conservative Ultra Right Military factions. Would they see this a threat and decide it was time to CLEAN HOUSE?

[edit on 1-9-2006 by Red_Dog_BOM]

Originally posted by Red_Dog_BOM
I have difficulty wrapping my mind around the process your describe Iskander, but I grasp the flavor of what you are implying. Which oddly enough, after Oranges following comment about us saps not getting what we are voting for, makes me wonder in a conspiracy ATS kind of way....

Some think tank (for lack of a better word), came up with that proposal, "don't deliver what you promise". This would be a great way for Americans to decide they did not need this false democracy any longer and with NAFTA like thinking, decide to merge our country with Canada and Mexico, wherein there would not really be any elections henceforth. Or at the very least, our entire system of goverment would take another big leap to the Left.

I suspect the "Right" already has concerns about this trend towards globalization of our way of life, and there is nobody more "Right" than our Military.
I can only wonder what would happen if this weakness is presented in clear concise terms to our Conservative Ultra Right Military factions. Would they see this a threat and decide it was time to CLEAN HOUSE?

[edit on 1-9-2006 by Red_Dog_BOM]

Red Dog_BOM,

I am no longer certain that our "Right " or right wing people in government are in fact conservative. I have been shifting away from the concept that Republicans or the Right wing are in fact conservative because what one sees mostly in tell tale signs indicates to me that they are in fact left wing in certain arenas. They are just Right wing liberals verses Left wing liberals. This is what my instincts have been telling me for some time now. Conservative is just a label that is used to keep people on the bandwagon and give "appearences " verses delivering on the product supposedly advertised. THe overall trend is slowly to move to the left. It is just slower with some administrations than others.

As to our military factions ..they will tow the line when needed. THe military is mostly a extension of the State. It was obvious to me that those with any know how ...and ability ...left..retired when the the Clinton Administration came into office. They knew what was coming and did not tell the general public. The Congress of the United states ..did the same..many of them put in thier papers and walked/retired too. They read the handwriting on the wall and didnt inform the public. It is going to happen again....eventually. There have also been military people...retired who have written of this and warned the public ..over 50 years ago. Their warnings and books are relatively unknown. General Smedley Butler comes to mind in his short book warning that "War is a Racket."

Globalization is a function of buisness intrests...and our government and others appear to be run by buisness intrests who also run think tanks...or have the government run think tanks for them. The government to me appears to be the boot lacky for certain buisness intrests...often on a Global scale. This also appears to have been going on for over a hundred years now. It is just that most of it has been invisible to the publics eyes due to public/television education.

Thanks,
Orangetom