Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by AdamJ
I would put in the effort if i thought i could stop it but its impossible. Its not a political idea its corporate.
Its already too late to stop it by the time it reaches consumer level, and it just has.

Well that is the problem with this whole damn country. If you accept it then it will happen! Ok maybe it is to late to stop but i would rather have had it come in and fought to stop it then simply letting it roll over me. Check my signature.

I will fight it, but not politically. Really this has been set as world standard for travel so there is no way to stop it.
The NIR could possibly have been stopped but i think it must be linked to the world travel database in the long run so i dont think it can either.
I will fight more than anyone so dont missunderstand me, i just know how difficult it is. Im realistic.
There is a no2id campaign now, its too late!!!! you will all just get fined now if you protest. You need to research this stuff and know in advance to protest it, but then you are called a nut job, so its hard to win.
Most of the people ive talked to about id cards even now say im a conspiracy theorist. Tell them its a world ID and they dont believe it. people are generally far too far behind to protest things effectively. Most of them would rather get drunk and ignore it, say im a nutter so, hey.

[edit on 17-4-2006 by AdamJ]

OK this is just disgusting, what is next? I mean maybe we should start putting peoples political views on the database, maybe any sexual tastes they have, that way if anyone dislikes a group of people we can get them at once.

This country truly is on the way to fascism. Is the RFID chip going to come on every card so we can be tracked everywhere? Is the RFID chip a socially acceptable form of branding individuals? I know many people will think i am being stupid there but that is how i see this now. I am utterly fed up of the ID cards, the waste of money, the lies about it helping defeat terrorism.

When they bring these damn things in i hope to be out of this country, a citizen elsewhere. If i am not, well then i will go to jail. Ok yes i will be forced to have one in jail i am sure, but i would rather be on record as fighting it then being someone who simply went along with it.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
When they bring these damn things in i hope to be out of this country, a citizen elsewhere. If i am not, well then i will go to jail. Ok yes i will be forced to have one in jail i am sure, but i would rather be on record as fighting it then being someone who simply went along with it.

Amen to that

Get your passports renewed before it is compulsory to supply ID card data

[edit on 20/4/2006 by alienanderson]

Is it just me that remembers all those old films made in the 80's and 90's which showed a world of trackable people? Everyone going through scanners everywhere and eventually getting sick of it and revolting. Anyone remember films like barb wire?

These thing's won't help they will hinder, they will slow life down, What about the idea that law enforcment and immigration officials won't bother to check much anymore because they will have a suposedly secure system? When we begin to rely on these sorts of things, then security will actually become well less secure. Just my views.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
When we begin to rely on these sorts of things, then security will actually become well less secure. Just my views.

Yep, this is my opinion also. Its not that it becomes less secure but the emphasis changes.
Surveilance cameras for example, dont augment police on the beat, they replace them. So you end up relying on technology and electronics instead of humans. I think that just changes the nature of security and society.
The concluson may be an increasingly non-social, violent society with law enforcemnt and people on different sides.

Yeah that is sort of what i mean, i believe that relying on technology in that way will result in many people who are innocent going to prison. I also think that you are right in that our culture will actually become more violent. The problem is that this violence will be met with more aggressive detterents and i believe it will end up simply getting worse and worse. A repetitive cycle, we may be straying from the topic of this thread though and so i will leave this here otherwise i will be slapped by the mods.

Originally posted by alienanderson
Interesting to read how they spent £25 million last year before the law had even been passed

- Why?

If various feasibility studies, systems and concepts are being formulated and studied, along with reports obtained from various people, institutes and countries around the world where is the surprise that this costs money?

The proposed 'law' was/is a major part of the government's program so funding the initial 'groundwork' for it should come as no surprise.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by alienanderson
Interesting to read how they spent £25 million last year before the law had even been passed

- Why?

If various feasibility studies, systems and concepts are being formulated and studied, along with reports obtained from various people, institutes and countries around the world where is the surprise that this costs money?

The proposed 'law' was/is a major part of the government's program so funding the initial 'groundwork' for it should come as no surprise.

True - I guess that in my mind the ID card scheme should not go ahead for various reasons, and that no money should be spent on it. However, I do admit that feasibility studies etc do eat up money

My concern is that the money could be better spent in other areas (particularly police resources) in order to reduce crime and fraud without the huge costs involved in setting up a national ID scheme

[edit on 26/4/2006 by alienanderson]

At the end of the day it doesnt matter what WE "joe-public" want or dont want !

You are born a number and sadly die a number, thats all we really are now !


BORN FREE TAXED TO DEATH

hello all
I havent posted on this site for a while for a number of reasons?

After the 7/7 bombings in London i was in my ignorance all for the ID cards stupidly thinking that this would go someway in stopping the type of terror attacks that we all witnessed, even though the bombers were 'homegrown; for want of a better word, and i say this was in my ignorance and frustration....
Bear with me here please!
Im 40, ive lived in ENGLAND all of my life, ive been in hospital, ive had cars, ive had credit, and credit cards, ive travelled the world and had my passport stamped, both on entering the UK and in other countries, ive bought a house, ive voted, ive worked , and paid taxes.

Now DONT GET ME WRONG!!!!!---I am totaly AGAINST the use of IDcards, but im just wondering (perhaps ive not read enough on the ID cards) but looking at the above (most people my age would have done the same) but what more information will these cards be able to carry?

Now i know that the use of ID crads will NOT stop terrorism!!
But as to (us) being monitored all day every day, well IMHO this is being done now and has been for a large number of years, and this is without the use of ID cards,

Just think of this :
if you live in or near a major city , virtually the moment you step from your door, your on camera!
Your vehicle movements are being tracked!(supposedly to monitor vehicles without insurence /mot etc)!
Your spending habits HAVE ALLWAYS been monitored if you use a credit /loyalty card
lets says on your credit card you have a weekly shopping bill of £150 which is being paid off when the bill comes in , and additional spending through your credit card epr month comes in at around £600 giving atotal of £1000.......the taxman has access to this .....if you self employed and you only declaring that your monthly income is £1000....how are you living...do you get what im saying?

Why is it that ONLY 2 companies in the UK are allowed to hold FULL credit info on you?........COZ THEY ARE OWNED BY BIG BROTHER!!!!(my opinion.. not got any evidence)
EQUIFAX AND EXPERIAN
It dosent matter where or what you buy/ what bank you go to, which house you rent or buy if your getting credit the agency will at some point get a credit check done by one of the 2 companies....(full credit checks)

My son who is 16 and looks about 14 recently bought a top set box from woolworths plc, a few days later a letter arrived for him when he opened it i hit the roof...............it was a bloody letter for a tv licence demand...........
I couldnt believe it we have a tv licence at our address, WHAT THE BLOODY HELL IS WOOLWORTHS PLC DOING ASKING A CHILD FOR HIS DETAILS!!!!!!!
needless to say ive lodged a formal complaint with wooloworths over this aint heard anything yet....
SO now we have a 16 yr old child who is alreday on a data base somewhere with his spending habits.....................

Thanks for letting me rant-off!!!

SAY NO TO ID CARDS
SAY NO TO THE EURO
AND ABOVE ALL SHRED EVRYTHING THAT HAS YOUR NAME ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey spymaster.

Well it depends hw you live your life. I have never agreed with credit cards myself. Loans for houses and cars are one thing, but i never liked credit cards for several reasons.

1. Handing over a card and handing over hard cash are two seperate things. What i mean is that when you use a card you have no real concept of how much you are spending. This is how people get in debt, they have no connection to the money. Using actual physical cash seems to stop people getting into debt so quickly.

2. I don't use them because using cash means i won't get all those anoying extra letters in my mail. I mean everyone gets some of them but by not using credit or debit cards and sticking to cash i don't get put onto any lists with my buying habits. I also don't have any store cards for this very reason, prevention is better than cure right?

3. I have never liked spending money i don't actually have. Obviously thing's like houses are different, few people have the money to buy one out right.

I also don't have direct debits because my friends have had bad experiences with banks not authorising payments in time and then getting extra charges on top of it.

As for ID cards, well the problem i have is extra info like fingerprints being taken on them. I mean up until now only criminals and suspected criminals had them taken. Well along with certain other people like military and intelligence personel. Why as an inocent citizen should i walk down to a post office and put my finger across a scanner? I'm innocent, i have commited no crime, i thought this country had the law of innocent until proven guilty. By taking this information it feels like we are expected to commit a crime.

Once again even if we ignore the civil rights issues, the financial issues are important. The NHS medical database has gotten into a lot of trouble already, how does the government think they will get the ID card system going? IT professionals everywhere are saying it's a flawed system and that it just won't work. The millions required to fund it would be better spent on a failing NHS.

Originally posted by blackwidow666
At the end of the day it doesnt matter what WE "joe-public" want or dont want !

You are born a number and sadly die a number, thats all we really are now !