The Fact is, Jesus is the prophesied Messiah

The fact is there is no actual evidence other than that writtern in the bible and Koran and the Torah neither is a particular unbiased or reliable source? Are there any non religious books that mention Jesus, now that would make people like me think.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
The fact is there is no actual evidence other than that writtern in the bible and Koran and the Torah neither is a particular unbiased or reliable source?

There is a lot of controversy as to whether or not the Jesus in question is mentioned in the Talmud. Certainly not the Torah. Other than the books of the New Testament, there are no specific mentions of Jesus, who was purported to be a Messiah. Nothing. All documents that appear to mention him have been debunked as later additions or frauds.

There is also no correlation between God destroying mankind AND it being in 120 years time. That is your interpretation. Interesting how you conveniently omitted Genesis 5:4,5 & 6 to create the impression that the destruction of mankind and the 120 years were to be taken as one.

Yea, all Genesis 6:4,5,6 does is explain why God is angry and going to destroy the world. No correlation at all, yea right.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

I have proved my point, thus there is no need to TRY and answer any more of my questions. Don't feel too bad, at least you tried.

No you proved my point.

I wasn't expecting any more questions really. I knew you shot your wad with that one. Careful, the light gets bright.

That's right. No correlation to the 120 year comment. I'm glad you agree.
It's odd that you feel I proved your point, I was sure you were implying that the Bible is completely factual. I guess I must have misunderstood you. Once again, I'm glad you finally realise that the Bible is not completely factual. I'm not surprised you weren't expecting any more questions, seeing as how you were stumped with one. I imagine hoping would be a more appropriate word than expecting though, I can tell you're relieved.

Your the one failing to admit the truth. And you did indeed take thing's out of context to "show" God was saying 120 years untill the flood, which is completly wrong.

It says what it says.

3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth ; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Ok, I see your problem now! In chapter 5, at the very end Noah is 500 years old. Then in the begining of chapter 6 God says what your interpreting as saying ...However, this CAN NOT be the case, if read in CONTEXT. Noah was 500 at the end of chapter 5. At the onset of the flood, noah was 600. There is NO 120 year gap at all, period.

Yep, Noah is 500 years old at the end of chapter 5 and has three sons. Gee, how old is he in chapter six when he has the same three sons.
You aren't interested in the truth.
Genesis 5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Genesis 6:10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Simple. The words themselve's and the words used. It should be quiet obvious. Then again, you are having trouble with the flood.

Well, almah is translated as "maid" in Isaiah chapter 7 in the King James Bible. If you want to say that it should be young woman, I have no problem with that.

Originally posted by mytym
That's right. No correlation to the 120 year comment. I'm glad you agree.
It's odd that you feel I proved your point, I was sure you were implying that the Bible is completely factual. I guess I must have misunderstood you. Once again, I'm glad you finally realise that the Bible is not completely factual. I'm not surprised you weren't expecting any more questions, seeing as how you were stumped with one. I imagine hoping would be a more appropriate word than expecting though, I can tell you're relieved.

Admit it, you shot your wad and found you are shooting blanks.

Mod Note: One Line Response – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 27-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Why Sun? WHY?! How can you be so completly blind and why would you purposefully take the bible out of context and continue to make yourself out as a fool?

6 "Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters were on the earth."

Do the damn math guy, where is the 120 years? WHERE?! Noah was 500 prior to god saying that, Noah was SIX HUNDRED years at the onset of the flood. THERE IS NO 120 YEARS! Nor does he say I will kill those heathens in 120 years. He clearly says HIS DAYS SHALL NUMBER 120 YEARS. Look at the lifespan of man AFTER the flood, it DECREASES TO 120 YEARS.

Quit avoiding the FACTS.

You know, it take's a real man (or woman) to admit when they are wrong. It take's a coward to continue to purpeptuate a lie.

[edit on 27-3-2006 by Prot0n]

Just a reminder here. If you can't debate without attacking each other or losing your temper, please take a break until you can, all right? Thanks.

Why Sun? WHY?! How can you be so completly blind and why would you purposefully take the bible out of context and continue to make yourself out as a fool? Quit avoiding the FACTS.

OK, let's talk facts. How old is Noah when he begats three sons in Genesis 6:10

Genesis 6:10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
OK, let's talk facts. How old is Noah when he begats three sons in Genesis 6:10

Genesis 6:10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

It doesn't say, nor does it give a precise timeline to even deduce how old he was at that time. But regardless of his age then, as per outlined in the bible, he was older then 500 at that point and younger then 600 at that point and in between all of this god then says what your incorrectly interpreting. For all we know he could have been 550 years old. Point is, the 120 years your speaking of does not exist.

There is no 120 year from the time god said what he said till the onset of the flood, and it's all clearly outlined in the bible itself. And purposefully bolding certain sentances to make it look like one whole statement does not help your case, but does show your ability to take the book out of context to support your erroneous views.


EDIT: My bad, sorry, Noah was 500 years old when he fathered those three.

5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old, and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
[edit on 27-3-2006 by Prot0n]

[edit on 27-3-2006 by Prot0n]

Sun Matrix:
Noah is 502, give or take a year, depending on the exact date, when he begat one of his three sons, Shem, according to the Bible. This is hardly fact though, the ony fact is that it is mentioned in the Bible. This has been explained to you several times. Rather than ignoring our demonstartions of this, may I recommend regaining some credibility by learning what facts are?

This is hardly fact though, the ony fact is that it is mentioned in the Bible. This has been explained to you several times. Rather than ignoring our demonstartions of this, may I recommend regaining some credibility by learning what facts are?

Guess it kinda rocked your world when I answered your little question, huh? Having trouble facing the truth aren't you?

I suggest that you stick with the "kiddie pool" threads, where they can't answer your questions, but then you have already shot your wad.

[edit on 28-3-2006 by Sun Matrix]

SunMatrix.. Why did you ignore this?

Originally posted by riley
Here is an idea. Go do a search on 'how mountains are formed'; tectonic plates collide. Unlike Noah's mythological flood.. this actually has happened and the sea shells and others fossils you speak of are indeed millions of years old.. not 5000. After you do that.. research sedimentary layers as well. There was a partial world flood about 15,000 years ago [end of the last ice age] but again Noah was ten thousand years too late for that one as well. Are you going to say the bible time line is wrong now so you can be right? I know.. facts can be so inconvenient sometimes.. :shk:

When was the flood? It can't have been in his lifetime unless he was over 10,000 years old.

[edit on 28-3-2006 by riley]

SunMatrix.. Why did you ignore this?

Thougt it was more for the Origins forum. Already drifted off topic, unfortunately. Don't feel like messing with age of earth, evolution or eastern religions. I'm tired of age of the earth and evolution and just can't interest myself in eastern religions. Evolution by the way is impossible, but I'm tired of talking about it.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Thougt it was more for the Origins forum. Already drifted off topic, unfortunately.

You didn't seem to mind discussing it when you mentioned sea-shells on mountains. The age of the earth is on topic.. that was meant to be Noahs 'thing'.. if the flood didn't exist.. chances are he didn't either.

Evolution by the way is impossible, but I'm tired of talking about it.

I'm sure you are, clearly you are way out of your league when it comes to discussing facts.. you seem to run a mile when you can't fight them.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

SunMatrix.. Why did you ignore this?

Thougt it was more for the Origins forum. Already drifted off topic, unfortunately. Don't feel like messing with age of earth, evolution or eastern religions. I'm tired of age of the earth and evolution and just can't interest myself in eastern religions. Evolution by the way is impossible, but I'm tired of talking about it.

It's funny how you say you've got the truth and blah blah blah, and yet when cornered with fact's and truth's you hide behind your lie's and insult. Get off the wad comment's, it's childish and uncalled for. You know damn well me and mytym are right on this. Is this why you WON'T answer the point's we raise but instead resort to wad comments?

[edit on 29-3-2006 by Prot0n]

Sun Matrtix:
Opinions are a wonderful thing, and you are entitled to yours. The problem with opinions is that they do not have the power to prove, simply to influence. Only facts possess this gift. I stand by everything I have stated, and am more than happy to let the readers of this thread determine the validity of them. Feel free to test me on my stance if you dare.

Originally posted by Prot0n

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

SunMatrix.. Why did you ignore this?

Thougt it was more for the Origins forum. Already drifted off topic, unfortunately. Don't feel like messing with age of earth, evolution or eastern religions. I'm tired of age of the earth and evolution and just can't interest myself in eastern religions. Evolution by the way is impossible, but I'm tired of talking about it.

It's funny how you say you've got the truth and blah blah blah, and yet when cornered with fact's and truth's you hide behind your lie's and insult. Get off the wad comment's, it's childish and uncalled for. You know damn well me and mytym are right on this. Is this why you WON'T answer the point's we raise but instead resort to wad comments?

[edit on 29-3-2006 by Prot0n]

What question that you or mytym have raised haven't I answered, at some point.

You seem to have backed out of the Isaiah 7 question that you kept bringing up, by the way. I must have answered that one ok.

You just seem to have a problem realizing that at the end of Genensis 5 it says that Noah is 500 and has 3 sons. Then after things happen in Genesis 6, it again says "and Noah has 3 sons. Gee I wonder how old Noah is when he has 3 sons in Genesis 6?

You keep dodging all the facts, like "seed of a woman", and try to turn things around. Sorry, not here.

I'm willing to stick with the fact, but I do shoot back.

Chapter 1

It all started with John. He had a son named Jeff. Jeffs son was Jack.

Jack was 10 years old, and for his birthday received a bow and arrow and killed 3 bears.

Chapter 2

And it came to pass that there were three bears living in the woods. For five years straight the 3 bears spent the winter in the cabin on the lake.

Jack said, "Those bears keep ruining the cabin" I'm going to deal with that someday.

Someday came, and Jack killed 3 bears.

Question: How old approximately was Jack when the bears started spending the winter in the cabin.

Originally posted by Prot0n
Is this why you WON'T answer the point's we raise but instead resort to wad comments?

Apparently only 'facts' that fit the bible are alloud to be admitted into this discussion.. all others must be ignored or dismissed as being 'off topic'.. especially if they involve science and reality.



[edit on 29-3-2006 by riley]