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See how easy that is! Faith is a Funny thing - it is not necessarily based on "Fact" & "Proof" - that is why I find the title of this thread is amusing!
Has it occured to you that maybe the "Christian God" & the "Hebraic God" are not the same God & that we are OK with that?
Originally posted by Enkidu
You're right. There's no historical proof that Jesus ever existed. Just anecdotal evidence. He could very well just be a convenient literary construct used to illustrate a point. The Greeks were all about that. All those "dialogs" that the philosphers used to write. Jesus could just be another one of those.
So, no there was no Jesus, no Messiah in any form.
The only person you can hope to save you is yourself.
2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time F4 by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Quote: "The facts are there, plain and simple."
In that case I am sorry to have to Inform you that the Torah and the Bible (both New & Old Testaments) are not "Fact Books" - but rather old Books of *FAITH* written by MAN under "Divine Inspiration". The purpose of these Books & of Religion/Spirituality in general is to get Insight into the Nature of God & to Learn to Live in a way that is Beneficial to both ourselves & the rest of Humanity. = ->
Well, the Old Testament contains the history of the Jews. Archaeologists have used the Bible to locate many ruins of past cities. That's a fact.
The Gospels contain eyewitness statements of the factual events that occurred in the life of Jesus the Messiah. The New Testament also contains factual letters written by leaders, particularly Paul, offering instruction and prophecy.
The final book of Revelation is of course a prediction of the endtimes. It predicts the rise of the revived Roman empire which is currently happening with the rise of the European Union.
Now I think that you are stretching a bit! It has been stated on ATS MANY times before that the Gospels were written at least 100 Years AFTER the Death of Jesus.
Also Paul never met Jesus in person.
Well how do you know that the "U.S." is not this "Revived Roman Empire" - after all are WE not the ones Invading other countries?
I see that I am wasting my time! You need to look up the Definition of the word FACT Sun Matrix! The Bible is NOT a "Fact" book - it is a Faith book.
You see I myself have Faith - I myself am a Christian - but I am NOT Naive enough to Believe that the Bible just fell out of the Sky/Heaven just the way that it is today.
I try not to let myself be Manipulated by others. I would rather just be Reasonable & Open Minded - I would rather just practice my Spirituality in private!
Originally posted by truthseeka
Like I said...
The Jews came up with this whole thing, and they don't think Jesus fit the bill. Get over it, end of story.
21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation. 22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
Akhentaten was the originator, or follower of a religion called atenism, the worship of the sun as the sole deity over all of mankind.
It's also generally accepted that Moses (or Osarseph) was an Egyptian high priest. A corrupt one at that.
Manetho apparently states that these events are the real history behind the biblical story of Moses and the Israelites, an argument that Josephus rejects as absurd. Many modern scholars interpret it as an early example of anti-Semitism (especially the claim that Jews are descendants of exiled lepers).
Others identify Osarseph as Joseph, to which his name is very similar, a situation in which Joseph's interpretations of the dreams of the pharaoh are identified as the dreams of Amenhotep III. These are not mutually exclusive interpretations; it is possible that Osarseph is both Joseph
(interpreter of dreams and friend to the pharaoh) under Amenhotep III, and Moses (a monotheist, leading the rebellion) under Akhenaten. The identification of Osarseph is, for obvious reasons, highly controversial.
Well, I'll just leave it at that and let you read the source's and determine whether to accept the written history around the rise of monotheism, Moses, and the hyksos (hebrew) invasion.
The written history around the beginings of the 'biblical' era are really interesting and tell a most enlightening story of where, how, who, and why. It just take's the time to research and put all the peice's of the puzzle together. And the need to remember, the bible isn't the only source of written history and is very apologetic to it's own belief's.