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Denying denial

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posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 11:41 PM
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A lot of you folks seems to be in the habit of denying stuff; Deny Hate, Deny Ignorance, etc. It's a part of many of the avatars that I see in the posts. I’m not trying to be argumentative, however, you can deny anything you like, but since all these things (hate, ignorance, prejudice as well as love, faith, etc.) have been around since the beginning of the human race, it’s seems a little ignorant of itself to try to deny them. It’s kind of like trying to deny the world is round. You can say it’s flat all you want, but at the end of the day, when your looking down on it from space, it’s round. I’m just wondering if you can explain the point. Maybe "defy" rather than "deny" would be more appropriate terminology.




posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 11:54 PM
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im not really sure what it means but it seems to be the theme for this site.



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 12:04 AM
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99% of the avatars you see that say deny hate are made by myself. It is my signature. All the avatars that I make I sign DENYHATE. It is a play on ATS's motto "Deny Ignorance." I came up with it after Neo-Nazi types came to ATS to recruit and spread hate.

I guess I just wanted to make the statement that their hate is not wanted here.



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 12:07 AM
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As for the site's motto Deny Ignorance.

About Above Top Secret: Denying Ignorance


Deny- To refuse to believe; reject.

Ignorance- The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 10:30 AM
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I'd like to make a proposal of "deny flatulence" , it seems more realistic as beano works pretty good and in almost every social context it is unacceptable (though funny at times if it doesn't stink). It (as far as I know) does not offend anyones religious, political, technological or imperical stands. So let's all just deny IT.

[edit on 10/2/06 by OneGodJesus]



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 09:37 PM
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Well, I'm definitely no big fan of Nazi's, neo or other wise, so I understand the concept of what you are saying and why.



Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Main Entry: 1de·fy
3 : to confront with assured power of resistance : DISREGARD


I still think that 'defy' is more appropriate. Never the less it seems to have caught on here at the ATS. It's kind of like a cult thing here though. The Deny Ignorance part I mean.

Besides sometimes ignorance is bliss and it seems to be some part of the criteria for running for any political office.

[edit on 11-2-2006 by lonewolf37]



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 10:12 PM
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I don't see "deny ignorance" as meaning "deny that ignorance exists" but rather "deny ignorance the chance to exist".

[edit on 11-2-2006 by LoganCale]



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 10:21 PM
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Well, first off you try and deny being anal and kinda work from there.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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I don't see "deny ignorance" as meaning "deny that ignorance exists" but rather "deny ignorance the chance to exist".

First off, you just said the exact same thing twice. But let's just go with the point I think you are trying to make and that is that you can choose not to be ignorant.



Ignorance- The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.


If you look at the given definition of 'Ignorance' it is a state of being uneducated or unaware. So therefore if you are unaware of something, it is entirely impossible to stop doing it. If you snore at night you can't will yourself to stop, because you are not consciously aware of actually doing it at the time. So therefore you might even want to replace 'deny' with 'educate'. Then you would have 'educate ignorance'.

Then you have a whole other problem with denial. Just because you educate or make someone aware of something does not mean that they will be willing to or even able to change that specific trait. For instance, if you could get a dog to understand that he is a dog and wrap his little brain around the concept, he could never 'decide' he would rather be a cat. He could chase mice and bat yarn around, but the first time he tried to go up a tree, he'd bounce on his butt. Along with education there has to be a willingness and an ability to change.

This brings me back around to my earlier point.


Besides sometimes ignorance is bliss and it seems to be some part of the criteria for running for any political office.

Ignorance is not always a bad thing. If we as humanity had remained 'ignorant' of the ability to split the atom, I think most of us would agree that we would all be a lot better off. And when you think about using the term ignorance in the form that most people do on this site makes it a relative term. Because what you might think of as ignorance might be quite logical to someone else and both people could possibly be well educated, rational individuals.

[edit on 11-2-2006 by lonewolf37]



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf37
First off, you just said the exact same thing twice.


No, I most definitely said two different things. To deny that ignorance exists is to say that ignorance is not a problem. To deny ignorance the chance to exist is to say that ignorance is a problem and that you will do everything you can to prevent it from taking place.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 11:06 PM
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Since you didn't obviously understand the point of my previous ramblings I will make it as simple as possible. Unless you could educate everyone in the world to the fullest extent on every subject imaginable, you can not eliminate ignorance. I think that we can all agree that this could never happen.

Then your down to eliminating what you personally consider ignorant and that makes ignorance a relative term to your personal opinion. So you can educate others on what you think is ignorance, but they may (and probably will) not accept your terms of ignorance.

So now we are back to my original point that I believe 'Defy Ignorance' is much better and the ignorance thing is really kind of iffy.

[edit on 11-2-2006 by lonewolf37]



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 11:15 PM
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You all know what ignorance means, and you all surely know the studpidity of applying human reasoning to animals. Unless your one of those people that have unnatural attachments to cats. Brr. scary people.


Ig·no·rant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gnr-nt)
adj.

1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed.


ig·no·rance ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gnr-ns)
n.

The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.


ignoramous -ig·no·ra·mus ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gn-rms)
n. pl. ig·no·ra·mus·es

- An ignorant person.





So I deny all cats.. or something.







[edit on 11-2-2006 by kegs]



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 11:28 PM
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kegs
So I deny all cats.. or something...?

I think it would help if you folks would read a whole post before replying to it. I do not make a statement with out a point so again in very simple terms. It's pointless to deny something that obviously exists and always will. People are and will always be ignorant of something no matter what you do, because until you are educated on that particular subject you remain ignorant. It's a lack of knowledge. Therefore to deny it would actually make the situation worse, becasue then there would be no education of the ignorant. By the way the whole dog/ cat thing was a metaphor to prove a point, possibly not a good one but I thought it worked. The point is some things can't be changed.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 11:34 PM
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Ohh I read it all. Don't fret that. Just as we've all read it all about the site a million and one times.

I'm sure I'll get the pleasure of reading it again, and again, and again, and again.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 11:37 PM
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Deny this post, just kidding here!!!



I simply think it means that in our society we the people are thought of as being ignorant and that we can be controlled and lied to. I think to Deny Ignorance is simply to mean we will not be taken for fools. We will not be be lied to, we will discover the truth. Many people in the general population are ignorant....ignorant to the truth.....ignorant to what is really going on and we on ATS are here to DENY IGNORANCE upon ourselves. This is not to mean we suffer *denial* of our own ignorance...just that we will not be victims of others ignorance. We want to learn, to know the truth.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 11:46 PM
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Well said, dirty_underground.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 11:49 PM
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kegs
Ohh I read it all. Don't fret that. Just as we've all read it all about the site a million and one times.


Explain.
I get the impression from this statement that this is not the first time this subject has been approached. I'm a little new here so if I'm rehashing old territory then I guess I need educated on my ignorance. I thought I was just exercising my right to 'deny' this 'deny ignorance' ignorance.

By the way, what the heck is a 'potato polisher'? Serious question unrelated to the current topic.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 11:57 PM
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All I'm trying to impart is that there's a button that says "search"

Use it.



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 12:01 AM
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By the way, what the heck is a 'potato polisher'? Serious question unrelated to the current topic.


It's not that hard to figure out.



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 12:50 AM
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I used your precious search button quite extensively and didn't find anything that seemed to relate to the current subject. There was a lot of stuff about homosexuality and denying the holocaust, but I didn't really see anything about our discussion. Besides, from what I've seen so far, if the moderators had thought this was a subject that was overly discussed they would have gladly told us so and killed this thread long ago.

So, therefore, I would invite anyone who would like to give their opinion on the subject every opportunity to join in. And no one has, as of yet, given any kind of logical explanation for this inaccurate buzz word. Other than Umbrax who at least gave the origin and reasoning behind the 'Deny Hate' logo that I have grown accustomed to seeing. Obviously he is, at the very least, quite helpful in helping people develop their avatars.



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