Is Islamic Outrage a Hoax? Who is manipulating who?

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posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma
Excellent points, VelvetSplash. The MSM keep on showing visuals of violent protesters here, violent protesters there. Where are the visuals of the peaceful demonstrations?



Where are the visuals of the American demonstrators?

This morning was the first time I noticed an Israeli flag right next to the American flag at the fright house.. is that new?
Condoleeza Rice was 'scolding' the Muslim world for showing their outrage and protesting those who chose to 'mock' something they believe in, and right over her left shoulder was the American flag on a stand right next to a flag with the star of david on it, Israel's flag.


I think it's awesome to see the Muslim people 'draw the line' around the world when it concerns the amount of respect they demand concerning their 'belief's'.
What they are doing proves to the rest of the world that their 'faith' is the only one that could be "real".

And who knows what the Americans believe in, it's certainly not anything they consider important enough to take to the streets and protest about.
In this country, a president can walk on God to justify a bullsnot war, a crack-rap artist can appear on the cover of a magazine as the PASSION of Christ,,,,


Are you not inspired by their inability to sit down and do nothing about what is happening to us?


it's not as if I'm not trying to figure out how to stop it

Mod Edit: Skunk Works Forum Guidelines – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 9-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 04:17 PM
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Interesting point on the abundance of Danish flags in Islamic countries.

What I also find interesting is what kind of flag this Muslim protesters are burning. It's a White Cross on a red background. Talk about symbolism.

Coincidence or a well thought manipulation?

Nordic Cross Flag


Nordic Cross Flag, Nordic Cross, Scandinavian Cross is a pattern of flags usually associated with the flags of the Scandinavian countries of which it originated. All the Nordic countries have adopted such flags. The cross design symbolizes Christianity and is depicted extending to the edges of the flag with the vertical part of the cross shifted to the hoist side. The first flag with this design was the Danish Dannebrog; thereafter, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, and some of their subdivisions used this as inspiration for their own flags. The Norwegian flag was the first Nordic cross flag with three colours. Though the flags share this pattern, they have individual histories and symbolism.


[edit on 9-2-2006 by yanchek]



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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I see some remarks here tha are NOT in the spirit Skunk Workds was intended.

Certainly talk about the possible hoax and manipulation.
But, let's not stoop to disrespecting groups of people and/or each other.

For a refresher, please read this:

We certainly do not want to discourage the involvement of helpful critical analysis and skeptical thought, this will always be a very important part of collaboration on ATS. However, we will be strict in managing the tone and style of such exchanges. Please keep your critical involvement to helpful focus on issues, facts, and analysis of possibilities, and do not engage in disruptive character attacks, snipes, and insults in any way. Any such activity will result in a warning and removal of your post.

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posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 07:46 AM
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Loam, i think you have hit the nail on the head with this one.

Who supplied the flags?
Who supplied the banners?

They clearly come from a common source. To me, thats a little shady.

Lets have a look at some of the PR Jobs/lies of the past..

John W. Rendon blows the whistle on the Pentagons PR

PRWatch.org

"I am not a National Security strategist or a military tactician," says John W. Rendon, Jr., whose DC-based PR firm was recently hired by the Pentagon to win over the hearts and minds of Arabs and Muslims worldwide.

"I am a politician," Rendon said in a 1998 speech to the National Security Conference (NSC), "and a person who uses communication to meet public policy or corporate policy objectives. In fact, I am an information warrior, and a perception manager....

The Rendon Group's work in Kuwait continued after the war itself had ended. "If any of you either participated in the liberation of Kuwait City ... or if you watched it on television, you would have seen hundreds of Kuwaitis waving small American flags," John Rendon said in his speech to the NSC. "Did you ever stop to wonder how the people of Kuwait City, after being held hostage for seven long and painful months, were able to get hand-held American flags? And for that matter, the flags of other coalition countries? Well, you now know the answer. That was one of my jobs."



Also, there is The Incubator Lie




PRWatch.Org
In fact, the most emotionally moving testimony on October 10 came from a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl, known only by her first name of Nayirah. According to the Caucus, Nayirah's full name was being kept confidential to prevent Iraqi reprisals against her family in occupied Kuwait. Sobbing, she described what she had seen with her own eyes in a hospital in Kuwait City. Her written testimony was passed out in a media kit prepared by Citizens for a Free Kuwait. "I volunteered at the al-Addan hospital," Nayirah said. "While I was there, I saw the Iraqi soldiers come into the hospital with guns, and go into the room where . . . babies were in incubators. They took the babies out of the incubators, took the incubators, and left the babies on the cold floor to die."83....

At the Human Rights Caucus, however, Hill & Knowlton and Congressman Lantos had failed to reveal that Nayirah was a member of the Kuwaiti Royal Family. Her father, in fact, was Saud Nasir al-Sabah, Kuwait's Ambassador to the US, who sat listening in the hearing room during her testimony. The Caucus also failed to reveal that H&K vice-president Lauri Fitz-Pegado had coached Nayirah in what even the Kuwaitis' own investigators later confirmed was false testimony.


Now does anyone remember the Office of Strategic Influence




FAIR.org Article

The OSI came under scrutiny last February, when the New York Times reported (2/19/02) that the new Pentagon group was “developing plans to provide news items, possibly even false ones, to foreign media organizations.” The news was met with outrage, and within a week the Pentagon had closed down the OSI, saying that negative attention had damaged the office’s reputation so much “that it could not operate effectively" (AP, 2/26/02).


But then there is this quote from Rumsfeld...


:Wikipedia

"And then there was the Office of Strategic Influence. You may recall that. And 'oh my goodness gracious isn't that terrible, Henny Penny the sky is going to fall.' I went down that next day and said fine, if you want to salvage this thing fine I'll give you the corpse. There's the name. You can have the name, but I'm gonna keep doing every single thing that needs to be done and I have. That was intended to be done by that office is being done by that office, NOT by that office in other ways."



I think its pretty safe to assume that the Office of Strategic Influence, in some way still exists, and this is a very serious issue.


Edit: And lastly, the depiction and reproduction of the human form (and i beleive any living form, but im not 100% on that) is outlawed by Islam. This is why their mosques are filled with such beautiful geographic shapes and styles.

So, its not so much the fact that we have people in our Art and cartoons that would offend them so greatly, but we go and draw THEIR messiah and depict him as a Terrorist. I'm not even Muslim and it offends me.

[edit on 10-2-2006 by ekul08]



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 12:36 PM
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This post probably merits its own thread, but I think it relevent to this topic...






Internet T-shirt Vendor Profits from Mohammed Cartoon Conflict

To see the latest creation from conservative t-shirt maker MetroSpy some would think the Muslim world had every right to be upset. MetroSpy's new t-shirts depict an unflattering caricature of the prophet Mohammed with a bomb on his head...

“We can't let the terrorists win. We can not encourage this uncivilized behavior by caving in to their wishes,” said Nate Thomas, product manager for MetroSpy

On their website (www.shopmetrospy.com...), MetroSpy denounces the tactics of Islamic extremists and encourages its customers to stand up against terrorism. "Failing to print these images mean the terrorists have won", the site says.

“We wanted a simple way to exercise our freedom of speech and to stand up to the terrorists. This design was perfect,” said Thomas.



Perfect for whom, I wonder???

If there isn't premeditated manipulation in this whole cartoon affair, there sure are a number of suspects jumping on to the bandwagon to capitalize upon it now.


EDIT: In its own thread. T-shirt Vendor Profits from Mohammed Cartoon Conflict


[edit on 10-2-2006 by loam]



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 12:45 PM
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"Failing to print these images mean the terrorists have won"


Oh

It was Al-Qaeda who rioted in those countries?


I tried visiting www.shopmetrospy.com to see what other shirts they are making but the connection keeps timing out.



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Umbrax
I tried visiting www.shopmetrospy.com to see what other shirts they are making but the connection keeps timing out.


Same here.

I also wanted to understand how they obtained the label "conservative".

I trust no one in this carton issue...


[edit on 10-2-2006 by loam]



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by loam
I trust no one in this carton issue...




Nor should you. I have this horrible feeling things arent quite as they appear.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by WHOFLUNGGUM
Take for instance, Iran has offered $120 dollars to the twelve people that can come up with the best cartoon, lambasting the hollacaust...... the hollacaust for god's sake. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't it a Danish paper that printed the cartoons that were drawn by Danes? What does that have to do with Israel, Jews and the Hollacaust? Typical Muslem reaction, which is the whole freaking point I am trying to make. The whole thing, whether manipulated or not is typical Muslem reaction.


Typical Muslim reaction or not, I think the point they are trying to make has not to do with the Hollacaust, or their own Prophet, but with Freedom of the press, and Freedom of Speach.

Following the printings of these cartoons, that are deeply offensive to Muslims, governments and news corporations and pubications around the world were promoting "Freedom of the Press".... I think this is simply a reaction to see if they will bite both ends of that "Freedom of the Press"



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 01:28 PM
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Repeat after me .... Islam is a religion of peace ... Islam is a religion of peace ...

Once you have got that piece of indoctrination into your brain, you can overlook and ignore muslim massacres, any murderous protests, and any abusive homocidal placards that the protesters carry.

Just who in the west with the events in the last couple of weeks, not only the cartoon nonsence, but the recent violence where they blew each other up in a religious festival (sunni vrs Shiite), can still believe this mantra?.

To say its a CIA plot, or a western inspired plot to discredit Islam overlooks the simple fact that they kill each other with more abandon that then they are presently killing westerners.

Its a religion based on death and murder, of those who don't follow their exact belief structure.

Quick! I am not seeing Islam as they want me to see it ... Islam is a religion of peace ... islam is a religion of peace...




[edit on 11-2-2006 by Netchicken]



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 02:03 PM
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I keep trying to tell people that this is hardly representative of all muslims and people keep on making assertions that islam=bad=evil. Come on now, what good are generalizations?

I've seen some stupid and arogant comments from a certain people ATS, but it's a big group, with many good people in it.. Should I dismiss all of ATS as a bunch of ignorant, arogant tossers?



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 03:32 PM
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The question over, is all it causing hate? yes everyone in the uk is getting pissed off bending over to accomodate muslim exstemist clerics, whether this is is a product of a conspiracy i dont know, but people have had enough, our government looks weak and i overheard a guy say the other day that "sixty years ago a guy had an idea to deal with this sort of problem,and i don't know think we'll find a better one. this is the kind of feeling that is being generated towards muslims.
Q,What exactly would the muslim states do if they had the power of Britain and America and we said behead all those who insult christianity!!!



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 06:47 PM
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Sure its hardly represenative of ALL muslims, I work with some who i would consider to be the least violent people I have ever met.

But even you have to admit that events over the last year make the proclamation "Islam is a religion of peace" mere hollow words?

When muslims, using their religion as justification, are commiting murder on a large scale because their religion tells them to, because they are told by their imams, because they are directed by their religious heirarchy, and expressly because they feel its their duty as muslims. How can you say that they are NOT representative?

They, their leaders, their teachers, all consider THEMSELVES islamic. We don't even hear about much of the violence committed in the name of islam.
Its iuslim on muslim, brutal massacres during their own religious festivals, or quiet terrorization of non muslims like in Indonesia.

Just what are westerners meant to believe?

I am going to Turkey in a few month, for an extended holiday. Now I know Turkey is a secular state, but you would be suprised by the many people who think what we are doing is not wise, that ALL islamic countries are dangerous.

I think that change will only come when the empty words "Islam is a religion of peace" that are chanted out in the media by Islamic speakers is challanged, when muslims themselves are forced to concede that there are serious problems in their belief structures, that Islam seems to produce some of the most seriously warped sub groups on the planet at present.

Self realization is the key to change, not rote recitation, we have gone passed that stage.


Originally posted by Beachcoma
I keep trying to tell people that this is hardly representative of all muslims and people keep on making assertions that islam=bad=evil. Come on now, what good are generalizations?



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by Netchicken

[...]

When muslims, using their religion as justification, are commiting murder on a large scale because their religion tells them to, because they are told by their imams, because they are directed by their religious heirarchy, and expressly because they feel its their duty as muslims. How can you say that they are NOT representative?

We don't even hear about much of the violence committed in the name of islam.

[...]

Just what are westerners meant to believe?

I think that change will only come when the empty words "Islam is a religion of peace" that are chanted out in the media by Islamic speakers is challanged, when muslims themselves are forced to concede that there are serious problems in their belief structures, that Islam seems to produce some of the most seriously warped sub groups on the planet at present.

[...]



I say it's not representative because it happens in only certain areas, 12-14 out of the 52 or so muslim majority countries. Within theses countries the masses who claim they are commiting large scale murders in the name of the religion have got some twisted warped interpretations of the religions.

And if you get to know the mentality of the masses in these troubled regions, you'd get to know that they aren't that religious. If they are they might be following a nutty brand that justifies mass murder or mass violence. Not all of them will subscribe to the idea, but it's a significant portion of the population.

I say, step back from the idea that it's the religion at fault here, but the people from these regions who claim they are doing this in the name of the religion who have twisted believes. Those of us who only get our news from one media source (western or arabics) will end up making the association with the religion instead of trying to make sense of from a geopolitical perspective.

Like for example in Indonesia, a country that is said to be the largest muslim nation, a great many -- I don't know how many, but it's almost every one of them -- don't know anything about Islam. I've only met one Indonesian muslim who actualy know what Islam is about. And this is supposed to be the largest muslim nation on earth. Why am I seeing very little muslims who know their religion from this country?

I don't think Islam itself is the reason these warped sub groups emerge. It's a combination of factors, like their economic level, their social climate, and the amount of anti-west propaganda they've been exposed to. The propaganda bit is probably the biggest factor. I've can see it working in the countries that host the warped sub groups. I can also see it working subtly in the western media, slowly making people associate these act with muslims as a whole and by extension Islam.

"Self realization is the key to change, not rote recitation, we have gone passed that stage. "

Very true, and most muslims are aware of this or practice it through some way or the other. But these violent sub groups are unfortunately not very well educated therefore easily swayed by a charismatic leader that preaches violence and justifies it in some manner. These nut leaders might be educated but why they came up with twisted concepts of the religion is another matter I'd like to understand. I have a hypothesis for that as well, but at the moment it's pure conjecture.

So, in summation I think it's best to drop the association that these extreme acts are Islamic, not because I'm apologizing for it or condoning it -- I detest these acts as well, as I believe it gives more fodder for the western anti-islam rhetoric which is having a field day right now because of those crazy cartoon riots.

Why I say drop the association? It's because I don't see it all across the Islamic world, but centered around a cluster of trouble regions. So that seems more like geopolitics. You have the Middle-Eastern cluster, the biggest and most troubled cluster. You have the South East Asian cluster, a region of turmoil surrounding the relatively peaceful, pascifist, muslim majority Malaysia -- the region I know most about and know for a fact it's got plenty to do with economic factors and social climate and little to do with religion. And lastly you have the Sub-saharan cluster, a region you don't hear much about on the news.

I've got plenty of ideas pertaining to this idea some which I have expressed in this thread that I made:

The muslim riots and other acts of violence: why are they happening?

Unfortunately I'm not getting many constructive responses, feedback or non-stereotypical critiques in that thread. I'm sure my hypothesis has some truth in it. So my responses are scattered throughout the boards most of it in this thread:

100's of Muslims protest Muhammad cartoons in London…But how many protest terror?

Within that thread there are two points I've made that links to this theory I have, they are --

The Indonesian Socio-Economic Situation

The Propaganda at Work - Classical Conditioning on a Massive Scale
Part I
Part II



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 08:27 AM
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Media is owned by those (in power) with money to manipulate. duality games...you break out of it on an indivdual level, everything is o.k.






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