Originally posted by Netchicken
When muslims, using their religion as justification, are commiting murder on a large scale because their religion tells them to, because they
are told by their imams, because they are directed by their religious heirarchy, and expressly because they feel its their duty as muslims. How can
you say that they are NOT representative?
We don't even hear about much of the violence committed in the name of islam.
Just what are westerners meant to believe?
I think that change will only come when the empty words "Islam is a religion of peace" that are chanted out in the media by Islamic speakers is
challanged, when muslims themselves are forced to concede that there are serious problems in their belief structures, that Islam seems to produce some
of the most seriously warped sub groups on the planet at present.
I say it's not representative because it happens in only certain areas, 12-14 out of the 52 or so muslim majority countries. Within theses countries
the masses who claim they are commiting large scale murders in the name of the religion have got some twisted warped interpretations of the
And if you get to know the mentality of the masses in these troubled regions, you'd get to know that they aren't that religious. If they are they
might be following a nutty brand that justifies mass murder or mass violence. Not all of them will subscribe to the idea, but it's a significant
portion of the population.
I say, step back from the idea that it's the religion at fault here, but the people from these regions who claim they are doing this in the name of
the religion who have twisted believes. Those of us who only get our news from one media source (western or arabics) will end up making the
association with the religion instead of trying to make sense of from a geopolitical perspective.
Like for example in Indonesia, a country that is said to be the largest muslim nation, a great many -- I don't know how many, but it's almost every
one of them -- don't know anything about Islam. I've only met one Indonesian muslim who actualy know what Islam is about. And this is supposed to be
the largest muslim nation on earth. Why am I seeing very little muslims who know their religion from this country?
I don't think Islam itself is the reason these warped sub groups emerge. It's a combination of factors, like their economic level, their social
climate, and the amount of anti-west propaganda they've been exposed to. The propaganda bit is probably the biggest factor. I've can see it working
in the countries that host the warped sub groups. I can also see it working subtly in the western media, slowly making people associate these act with
muslims as a whole and by extension Islam.
"Self realization is the key to change, not rote recitation, we have gone passed that stage. "
Very true, and most muslims are aware of this or practice it through some way or the other. But these violent sub groups are unfortunately not very
well educated therefore easily swayed by a charismatic leader that preaches violence and justifies it in some manner. These nut leaders might be
educated but why they came up with twisted concepts of the religion is another matter I'd like to understand. I have a hypothesis for that as well,
but at the moment it's pure conjecture.
So, in summation I think it's best to drop the association that these extreme acts are Islamic, not because I'm apologizing for it or condoning it
-- I detest these acts as well, as I believe it gives more fodder for the western anti-islam rhetoric which is having a field day right now because of
those crazy cartoon riots.
Why I say drop the association? It's because I don't see it all across the Islamic world, but centered around a cluster of trouble regions. So that
seems more like geopolitics. You have the Middle-Eastern cluster, the biggest and most troubled cluster. You have the South East Asian cluster, a
region of turmoil surrounding the relatively peaceful, pascifist, muslim majority Malaysia -- the region I know most about and know for a fact it's
got plenty to do with economic factors and social climate and little to do with religion. And lastly you have the Sub-saharan cluster, a region you
don't hear much about on the news.
I've got plenty of ideas pertaining to this idea some which I have expressed in this thread that I made:
The muslim riots and other acts of violence: why are they happening?
Unfortunately I'm not getting many constructive responses, feedback or non-stereotypical critiques in that thread. I'm sure my hypothesis has some
truth in it. So my responses are scattered throughout the boards most of it in this thread:
100's of Muslims protest Muhammad cartoons in London…But how many protest
Within that thread there are two points I've made that links to this theory I have, they are --
The Indonesian Socio-Economic Situation
The Propaganda at Work - Classical Conditioning on a Massive Scale