Staying Together "For the Kids" ???

Originally posted by IAF101
Of what is happening and where you people are going. Maybe it wont work but atleast you will be clear amongst yourselves and maybe then understand what to do next.

Yeah, we have a few times...a lawyer was involved last year, but I said...no, no, no we can work it out like an idiot. I don't know if it was my ego saying we could make it work or my fear that it was going to be really ugly and spiteful in court -and I really don't want it to be ugly. If we could just stay friends and divorce I think I'd do it tomorrow! But first...we'd have to make friends with one another for that to ever happen.

Originally posted by think2much

Yes, this is a very big concern for me...I am so freakin unhappy I ...I...I can not find words to express it. It's misery. I don't walk around outwardly miserable mind you, but am exhausted trying to live this lie

think2much do you think your children would want U to be so unhappy ?
Life is not meant for us to just exist, it is here for us to live it, alot of us forget this

My mother has stayed with my father for years longer than the year he stopped making her a happy woman. I know it, the 3 of us know it, all of us know this. And U know still today I wish she would leave him so she could be happy, but she won't.

That ain't love nor life and it ain't healthy for anybody. It depresses me and amazes me at the same time ... how do people do it ? I don't like think I am selfish or anything like that, just been unhappy enough from my own doing, I couldn't bear to be at the hands of anybody else.

You won't be letting them down, just know that. You will still be there for them, love them and do things only U can as their father.

I admire your efforts to protect them and all this advice we can give I am sure you will do what's best for them and yourself.


bless.




[edit on 6-2-2006 by ImJaded]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I think what hurts kids most in divorce is the strain in the relationship between the parents and the usage of the kids as pawns to punish and pester the other parent. I almost feel that if you both could agree on certain terms, a divorce might be the best way to go. Terms such as NEVER putting down the other parent in front of the kids, NEVER fighting in front of them and NEVER using them to get to the other person. And ALWAYS work together for the best situation for the kids.

YES! Exactly, if it could be more than civil, but actually friendly...if we could do what we do now...divorce, but continue live for our kids, their happinesss, it would be beneficial ...but unfortunately, I think I have set the example in paranting...and I fear without my example...things wouldn't be so ideal half of the time...I think basics would be there and love...but not as much patience and selflessness...

I also feel like I would be the only one to know the benefits of praising the other parent outweigh the attempted harm to that parent via trashing them to the children...and I fear...not for myself, my ego, my reputation...but for what my chidren would be robbed of if I was constantly seen as some villian...the reason for the divocre, the "bad" person and the "bad" parent etc...you know? This person I married is immature and spiteful.

If

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
you do get a divorce, remember that it doesn't have to be a conventional arrangement. I love the idea of leaving the kids with the house, for example, while you and your spouse move in and out every few weeks. I think that would be the very best way to keep the kids lives as disruption-free as possible, at least for a while. You could even both 'share' an apartment and stay there while the other is at the house. You could still have a 'family' night once a week or something. A way to let them know that everything is really ok. If you continue to make your kids' happiness and stability a priority, I'm not at all sure a divorce would be the worst thing for them.

Yes! Thank you for validating that idea, See, I think that would be ideal. And you hit it on the head with the apt...I've thought about the small apartment we'd share as well. just a two bedroom small apartment with padlocks on the bedrooms for a sense pf personal space but really, I've envisioned it-though I don't like the added expense it would mean, but I think the kids in the home is ideal.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And lastly, my heart breaks for you! I cannot imagine being in your position. I wish you all the luck in the world.

Thanks very much

Originally posted by ImJaded
think2much do you think your children would want U to be so unhappy ?
Life is not meant for us to just exist, it is here for us to live it, alot of us forget this

I think they are so young they just want their mommy and daddy and the family structure they know and love... and for them to feel secure to be happy Jaded. Thats all they want and I don't know how to give it to them...without being unhappy myself

I do fear my unhappiness affecting them, and I do know I CANNOT and WILLNOT go on like this...

I'm just not sure where to put my energies...I feel selfish for wanting out...I feel guilty for NOT being in love...I fell like have I really tried enough...am I being shallow...

truly I think of it 24/7

Originally posted by think2much

Originally posted by ImJaded
think2much do you think your children would want U to be so unhappy ?
Life is not meant for us to just exist, it is here for us to live it, alot of us forget this

I think they are so young they just want their mommy and daddy and the family structure they know and love... and for them to feel secure to be happy Jaded. Thats all they want and I don't know how to give it to them...without being unhappy myself

I do fear my unhappiness affecting them, and I do know I CANNOT and WILLNOT go on like this...

I'm just not sure where to put my energies...I feel selfish for wanting out...I feel guilty for NOT being in love...I fell like have I really tried enough...am I being shallow...

truly I think of it 24/7

no not at all, the last thing I see you being is shallow. Quite the opposite actually, you're doing what so many men wouldn't even dream of doing for the sake of their children.
I understand with them being so young and as I am not even a parent yet I'm sure I couldn't understand fully what you're going through.

I just hate to hear of your suffering and wish U all the best

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
While it seems you are aware of "what you have going", I do have to inquire as to what it is about "their relationships" that you find yourself envious of. I don't want to color your response by posing any pre-conceived personal "assumptions". I'm just curious as to your thoughts on "why" you find yourself envious of others' relationships.

Not meaning to get too personal, it's just a question.

No, it's a fine question...I think anyone who comes and vomits their personal life problems out on a board, shouldn't be too put off by a question like that.

What is it I envy about other's relationships...and why...

Well, at the core-I envy anyone who has a connection with their parnter. A soulful, intellectual, spiritual connection. I envy people who met and fell in love (chose to love) for valid and healthy reasons...

...ones that dated, fell in love, had healthy things in common from the begining and still do...have stories and fond memories of their life together...private jokes and friendship....from the begining and still do

I envy people that find one another intelectually stimulating, and have emotional intimacy. I envy those who find one another physically attractive and have sexual intimacy and are sexually compatible too. Honestly, a strong sexual need and appetite for me could go a long way.

I'm not shallow, it's not all about sex when I talk of sexual intimacy and sexual needs and appetites...but I do have a very strong emotional-sexual drive...one that has been neglected from the begining, and I let it be...figuring it would get better...or it didn't matter... or that my sexual attraction would grow and not wane...

but without the friendship, common interests, intellectual stimulation or emotional intimacy, of course the sexual intimacy and sexual satisfaction has never grown either. Only in this past year...with the fear of divorce, and the correspondence with my lover from the past, have things picked up sexually...and while I do get more sexual satisfaction, it is so void...

because things are so strained, and I can identify all the lacking elements in every aspect, I know sex is just...either to make me happy, or if mutual, still void of any real mutual attraction, and void of any intimacy-it's just sex-and it's not even hot sex...it's just sex-cold sex....and even still...it's never enough. And I feel like a sell out when we hardly say a word, can't seem to stand one another's presence...when I've tried to no avail to be nice, cordial, firiendly etc...and then say # it!

Then all of a sudden...sex is offered... in a day or two...and so then I put all my irritation aside, I put my anger away, I "forget" about how I was spoken to or treated...just so I can get off...

well that and keep the peace...because I try to be nice...for nothing it seems, but I'll be dmaned if anyone can say "Well, I even tried..." and make me the "bad guy" for turning down sex for the principles involved

ok...maybe it's just my needs...I dunno...but I give in...at least for that...and then I pretend that things are ok...because I don't want to be the one who is "causing the stress"...so I always swollow my anger, deny my needs and am just thankful for when I am being treated half decent and getting some.

...our behaviour as husband and wife includes you know...the equal self asigned tasks to keep the home and family in running order

so no, no one is going to nag, or bitch about chores around here, or towels on the floor toothpaste caps off...or someone being out all night or drinking to much (anymore) or smoking anything they shouldn't (anymore)

but ah...

just to have a freaking conversation with someone...and not feel put down for the way I think, or what I think about, or how I express it,k or what interests me...and god...one could even dream to be appreciated for it all...and everything esle I do...but mostly...just for who I am...to feel that is appreciated...instead of something to be ashamed of.

Yeah, the people I envy...they respect one another, like one another, like to be around one another, enjoy doing things with one another...truly love one another for who they are, and despite that...without making a point of the despite part...


[edit on 7-2-2006 by sanctum]

ok if you never had the love to start with... how did you get as far as you have?

Sounds to me your psyche is pretty drained and when you mentioned the put downs etc then that is very soul destroying. I think marriage counselling will get to the heart of matters and perhaps its closure or renewal..whatever happens at least you can say you tried.

There is no perfect relationship...they don't exist!

The illustration of what you showed before on how you think a relationship happens..is just that, an ideal.

I have met a lot of people and have been very surprised to meet people who look from the outside to have a happy la la thing going...but once you step inside their world and get to know them..you realise that things arent so perfect. You will never know how it is with other people.

Its a tough call and more importantly a very big decision in your life and that of your kids.

all the best but I am so glad I am not where your at

been there done that
cheers

Unless you and your spouse can treat each other with respect, dignity, love, and definately without resentment- there AINT NO POINT in stayin together for the kids.
You will muck them up, teach them BAD coping skills, make the home feel like a house of ice, to name a few. Even worse one of the parents may start resenting the kid(s) for the unhappy marriage. I could write an entire 3, 000 page book about the lows of staying together "for the kids".. Its Bull


[edit on 7-2-2006 by sanctum]

Originally posted by NJE777
ok if you never had the love to start with... how did you get as far as you have?

Ok, well...hmmm...now I get to really disappoint you or anyone else who may read this...but..."on my own here we go" -Green Day)

When people would witness how bad things could be between us, they'd ask the similarly how we could stay together, why we had...why we were...I'd answer that you don't just give up on someone you love...and that we somehow despite our differences were progressing personally into becoming better people in many ways...partially due to one another-our situation etc..or so it seemed...this is of course pre-kids.

By the time we had kids, there was many a time I wanted out. We also didn't think we could have kids due to possibly something that had to do with our militray service in the first Gulf War. Two miscarriages seemed to say-even if conception occured, it wouldn't go far...so our surprise first child-our miracle baby-changed everything...

I would live for that child and I would make the best of our relationship. This also came at a time I had had a spiritual awakening and had gone from being more worldly and selfish to be more spiritual and sacrificing. I felt it was righteous and noble to just be the best spouse and parent I could be-no matter what.

My attitude seemd to be a good example, and though we didn't/don't share spiritual/religious beliefs really, we both belive in God and consider ourselves Christian basically and our parenting reflects traditional Christian values as well...incluidng treating one another with respect, and this usually happens in front of the kids. Seeing this major change in my mate, to treat me with more respect, albeit for the kids, gave me hope...for them and for us....

and we did both continue to change for the better, in so many ways...this is how our lives become so "picture-perfect" to many...because we did change and grow...and work at making this a home for our kids, of warmth and love for them...but individually...only together did we grow in the purpose of parenting, otherwise, even further apart personally.

We become performers-doing what was expected, doing what makes things run smoothly, doing what needs to be done, doing what makes a relationship successful in the eyes of the world...but without nurturing anything real whatsoever.

I think the world thinks two people wouldn't be in a marriage if they weren't in love, so everything else is the goal...for me we ahve the everything else and love woould be the goal, and I just don't think I can be happy choosing to love someone who doesn't get me, doesn't want to, or can't...

That is where we are today....so much better than we ever were individually when we met, good people at the core...but deisaterously strained together with nothing in common.

When we met I was going through kind of a bad time in life...I was young and had recently been pushed into marriage and joining the military. (Yeah I was married when we met.) I'd gone into basic training within weeks of my honeymoon, and by the time I got out of basic training and hit tech school, I was rethinking the marriage already....

the divorce was already spoken of when I was deployed for the first Gulf War...and met my spouse now...a strong person that told me I needed to get my stuff together and I needed someone that was going to whip me into shape at that point...but it was a facade...what this person offered wasn't true strength to help lift me up, or strengthen me-they took my strength from me, to have this strength over me...and as this was familiar from my childhood, I mistook it for love.

Originally posted by NJE777
Sounds to me your psyche is pretty drained and when you mentioned the put downs etc then that is very soul destroying. I think marriage counselling will get to the heart of matters and perhaps its closure or renewal..whatever happens at least you can say you tried.

Yes, at least I tried...it would be nice if something could change, but I don't see how I could learn to love this person...but maybe through counselling I can learn how to try...and they too...and if not, if nothing else, maybe a professinal outside opinon on how disasterous it is, and how a divorce could make things better will ease us into that divorce without the spiteful backlash...but I'd like to know what the therapist will say about staying together for the kids as well...

Originally posted by NJE777
There is no perfect relationship...they don't exist!

The illustration of what you showed before on how you think a relationship happens..is just that, an ideal.

I don't need ideal, I just need a piece of it, a taste of it...it is ideal to want to have a connection with another human being...intellectual stimulation and sexaul satisfaction...but it is not an impossibility...now to say every aspect of the realtionship would be perfect and ideal...no, I'm not looking for that...just someone who gets me-and really wants me...for ME not for what I contribute to the functionality of the family, but who I am to them. I simply do not have that-not at all.

There are two ideals...I think about this...there is the ideal of how a relationship functions and runs, and the ideal of how people connect-I have a well functioning relationship that is ideal in many respects...but I'd MUCH rather have the intellectual stimulation and soulful connection, and screw it if everything else isn't perfect.

So I am not looking for an ideal all around mind you-just if I am going to be with someone, let them ideally, be someone worth my mind, love and my body-otherwise what a waste....I'd rather be alone with my fantasies. It's much less lonely to be alone, rather than devalued...and when I say devalued-understand as a parent and spouse I am valued...but as a person, and indivdual and a very sexual being-I am not.

Originally posted by NJE777
I have met a lot of people and have been very surprised to meet people who look from the outside to have a happy la la thing going...but once you step inside their world and get to know them..you realise that things arent so perfect. You will never know how it is with other people.

ah yes, I am an example of this to a degree...but I also know despite imperfect things, I envy people I know that when it comes down to it...despite their nagging, and their reasons to bitch about the little things in life which I don't have to...at the end of the day there is no place they'd rather be then in one another's arms... talking, being still or making love-and I envy that.

Originally posted by NJE777
Its a tough call and more importantly a very big decision in your life and that of your kids.

all the best but I am so glad I am not where your at

Yeah, well...thanks...I wouldn't wish where I am at on anybody.

[edit on 6-2-2006 by think2much]

Hi think2much;
I am in a similar relationship too. We are staying together for our kids. The kids want us too to. I know it sounds strange but we have four children, 2 boys,2 girls. We have separted,done the counselling thing, both been depressed etc....Somehow it's working out for us. Strange but true.

Originally posted by think2much

LostSailor my friend, now tell me how you really feel!!!!!

I'm sorry my man. I couldn't possibly put myself in your shoes. You at least tried... And for that you are more of a man then me. I just run when things get to serious. I use my excuse of being a sailor as a "get out of jail free card" and run.... God damn I hope I don't have kids soon.... Changes everything.

You seem like a level headed man... I am sure whatever choice you make will be the best one.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
As regards staying together for the kids, I think every situation is probably a little different and I'd advise in most cases that it's probably not a good idea. As was mentioned, the kids will pick up on every little stress in the house between you. And they DO learn from their parents how to love their future partners. It's certainly something to consider - what they're learning about adult love from the 2 of you.

I just wanted to quote something I saw here that caught my eye... But reverse the advice so to speak. Yes... Children learn how to love from their parents. They also learn how to work out issues and solve problems from example, or sometimes, learn how to cut tail and run when things get tough. I haven't done my own research on the subject, but I am willing to bet that a child from a divorced family is more likely to get a divorce themselves when they are older.

Originally posted by LostSailor
Children learn how to love from their parents. They also learn how to work out issues and solve problems from example, or sometimes, learn how to cut tail and run when things get tough. I haven't done my own research on the subject, but I am willing to bet that a child from a divorced family is more likely to get a divorce themselves when they are older.

Plenty of research on the subject says the same...which is why I struggle...I have stayed with my partner for 10 years based on..."you don't give up" there were times I nearly did...but then it was "you don't give up when you have kids..." thinking not just wanting to stay for them in their life, but for the example it would be-dedication etc. SO many people do cut tail/cut bait etc so to speak...you know...ship off and I do get so sick of people BM&Cing about stupid stuff in relationships, or seeing people have rediculous drama...or seeing people who give up so easily-or even when things are good because they are so screwed up they'd rather leave than be left etc...

so in it all, yes, I do believe there is some merit to it being beneficial for the kids to learn...it is a commitment...it isn't always about being happy...it's about being commited-to each other and family...in that..choose wisely kids who you will commit yourselves too...because once commited you don't just leave

OMFW why didn't I wake up from this nightmare 11 years ago...before it ever truly began

:bnghd:

Originally posted by think2much
By the time we had kids, there was many a time I wanted out. We also didn't think we could have kids due to possibly something that had to do with our militray service in the first Gulf War. Two miscarriages seemed to say-even if conception occured, it wouldn't go far...so our surprise first child-our miracle baby-changed everything...

First off... I don't want you to take anything I say too seriously because I am no goddam' professional. I have had about 3 Jim Beam and Cokes... But you sound like you need some advice. Any advice. Or at least you need someone to listen. Whatever. I know I can be blunt and straightforward at times. That's just me. You need to ask yourself why you wanted out... Did you want out because of the kids? Where you scared about being mr. responsible? DADDY? Do you think you are responsible enough for the kids? Because if you don't I'll tell you I don't believe you. You seem like an intelligent person to me and any kid of yours should be damn lucky... That goes for your wife as well my man.

I'm skipping the proper grammar and spelling crap because it interferes with my flow. Does that make me less intelligent? I can't type for crap... Sausage fingers. You will have to excuse me.

I would live for that child and I would make the best of our relationship. This also came at a time I had had a spiritual awakening and had gone from being more worldly and selfish to be more spiritual and sacrificing. I felt it was righteous and noble to just be the best spouse and parent I could be-no matter what.

Where did these ideals go? Why can't you still be that same person? You know your kids are going to become teenagers someday and think all that religious stuff is crap anyways right? But... There will come a day when they see the deeper side of religion, see why it is so important to some to keep a healthy mind. To raise a family. To explain love. Kindness... Virtues we should all try to achieve.

My attitude seemd to be a good example, and though we didn't/don't share spiritual/religious beliefs really, we both belive in God and consider ourselves Christian basically and our parenting reflects traditional Christian values as well...incluidng treating one another with respect, and this usually happens in front of the kids. Seeing this major change in my mate, to treat me with more respect, albeit for the kids, gave me hope...for them and for us....

As far as treating each other with respect. That is a good thing. Especially in front of the children. But, you should always... Always... treat a woman with respect at all times. I know this can be difficult man... I know... But as men we need to suck it up just do it. Even when they don't deserve it. Turn the other cheek. If it is her just doing it for the kids. That may be the problem. Why is she just doing it for the kids? Are you just doing it for the kids? Do you feel comfortable talking about something like this with your own wife? If not... Is it you making it uncomfortable or your wife?

and we did both continue to change for the better, in so many ways...this is how our lives become so "picture-perfect" to many...because we did change and grow...and work at making this a home for our kids, of warmth and love for them...but individually...only together did we grow in the purpose of parenting, otherwise, even further apart personally.

I really can't help you here... Or even attempt to try because I don't have the experience. But to me it doesn't sound like anything to strange. Parenting should become the main focus in your relationship once you have kids.

We become performers-doing what was expected, doing what makes things run smoothly, doing what needs to be done, doing what makes a relationship successful in the eyes of the world...but without nurturing anything real whatsoever.

I think the world thinks two people wouldn't be in a marriage if they weren't in love, so everything else is the goal...for me we ahve the everything else and love woould be the goal, and I just don't think I can be happy choosing to love someone who doesn't get me, doesn't want to, or can't...

I think thats BS... You think ugly people are really in love with each other? Sorry to be blunt... But I guarantee they probably just want what the pretty people have. But they can't so they make succession... Maybe some people just love being with someone period. I know I'm rambling... You have to excuse that. Sorry. I never said I was a genius. I don;t try to be.

That is where we are today....so much better than we ever were individually when we met, good people at the core...but deisaterously strained together with nothing in common.

I don't know about you... But I am usually initially attracted to women I have nothing in common with. There is a reason you probably can't find anything in common with your wife. Gonna throw a cliche out here.... "Opposites attract." You need to find the median and just go with the flow. Smile man. *wink*

There had to be somethin' there when you met her. Somethin' you found attractive. Somethin' you had to have. I bet it's still there... Waiting to be discovered again. AGain... don't take me seriously... You just sound like you need someone to listen right now man. As stated in my precious post... I am probably the wrong type of guy to listen to. I just run.............................

Originally posted by LostSailor
You need to ask yourself why you wanted out... Did you want out because of the kids? Where you scared about being mr. responsible? DADDY? Do you think you are responsible enough for the kids?

No that wasn't it...I meant prior to kids I wanted out...not that when they came I started wating out...it's up until then I thought of splitting...cutting my losses...but when kids become involved everything changed.

Where did these ideals go? Why can't you still be that same person? You know your kids are going to become teenagers someday and think all that religious stuff is crap anyways right? But... There will come a day when they see the deeper side of religion, see why it is so important to some to keep a healthy mind. To raise a family. To explain love. Kindness... Virtues we should all try to achieve.

to be totally honest...I woke up one day realizing how screwed up my life was and why...what my true needs were and why I would be denied them...for a lifetime...and I got bitter with God...blaming Him for not intervening, not changing things, and not changing me and my needs...which I would live denying...for Him...for my kids...for the rest of my life...

I'm trying to get it back to good..but the bitterness...the needs...they stand in the way right now...

I think thats BS... You think ugly people are really in love with each other? Sorry to be blunt... But I guarantee they probably just want what the pretty people have. But they can't so they make succession... Maybe some people just love being with someone period. I know I'm rambling... You have to excuse that. Sorry. I never said I was a genius. I don;t try to be.

You are going to piss of the ugly people with that kind of drunk rambling

But I know what you mean...concessions are a part of every relationship..."ugly" comes in many forms and we all have to look past some ugly things in others...but man...some ugly is u-g-l-y and hard to overlook.

Thanks man...I do need to "talk" about it all so I appreciate you being a sounding board.

Well, it's been a little while.

Any updates?

We've begun marriage counselling...and um...damn...

in a nutshell, the psychologist met with us both, then each of us seperately...and he holds very little hope.

In the first meeting, I observed the body language of my partner-very closed. Defensive against me, protected against the shrink etc.

I noticed mine and wondered if it was my true comfort with self, or something I was projecting...I was turned toward my partner, a bit sideways to shrink, but very open, one arm on back of couch toward my spouse etc.

We both spoke openly, including about the situation which was catalyst in us seeking counselling etc, and after we each made our...opneing statements the shrink would ask the other if it seemed accurate etc...and it usually was....even if further clarification was needed...not in defense, but just for the other perspective of that issue.

So all in all I did like the psychologist, however he first met with my spouse and after that session said he thought we should seperate by my spouses indications-told my spouse this.

When I met with him, I said I didn't know why I was if he had made up his mind and was recommending we just end it...but he said, well based on what I was hearing it doesn't seem like things could work out...but lets talk...so we did.

When he asked me why did I want to make it work...I said "Can I give the sociological POV" and he laughed and said You can give me whatever view you want...just tell me...

so I said, well, family is important. It's important for the individual, for the unit, for the children, for society-I deeply believe in "family" and I would do anything for my kids...

then he of course laid the bombshell on me as i guess I knew he would and asked

"well, tell me then...how long do you think you can continue to make personal sacrifices of all of your most basic needs for those reasons?"

#!

# # # # # ## # # # # # # #!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you know?

:bnghd:

I don't know. How long can someone go without intellectual, spiritual, emotional or sexual stimulation/compatability?

The worst part is in most cases, counselling can take you back to why you fell in love, and weed through what choked that love...find out where the true cionnection was and strengthen it again...

for us...it never was about love or a connection...it was about running away from pain and reality for me...it was about young immature co-dependant symbiotic need-a phase...we grew out of it, out of one another, became better people indiviudally and as parents eventually...but never as a couple-we have never had a connection-our kids are our connection...our reason we continued to progress in the right direction even...our one unified purpose

but...it is nothing more...not for me....can't seem to be.

the worst part is my spouse wants to make it work, not just for the kids and to save face and family etc...but for love apparently...

I just disagree on the defination of love I guess..I need more than to share a house and chores and family obligations with someone. I need more than to have detached sex without desire or passion...

I feel my spouses sexual desire/willingness to please is feigned at times...a lower libido I once thought...it has improved lately, but I feel it is a ruse...for my sake, even though it is much more mutually satisfying with the extra effort they willingly-even joyfully give these days

For me, there has never been a real sexual attraction factor...and very little sexual satisfaction as a result of that and a complete lack of emotional intimacy- sex either needs to be about lust and passion, or a soulful connection, intellectual emotional intimacy...ideally BOTH

our is none of the above...NONE-that should be indicative of how detached our marriage as a whole is...so with that in mind, I do not feel this is about love...my spose does...and I feel guilty for not being able to reciproicate that love based on the null and void emotions that are not present-no connection. I realize now there are people that are simple and need not a soulful connection with someone...or feel one without intellectual stimulation, emotional intimacy, and other compatability factors, but I am not one of them...and it pains me to be trapped by one who is satisfied with so little.

I use to look forward when I would leave for a month at a time! I was FREE-I missed nothing about my spouse because there was nothing to miss. That is ad. I pointed this out once...asked what was missed about me...there was no specifics given...sad...even back then I was trying to make a point...trying to..."get out"

*sigh*

now I am the "bad guy" so to speak for not loving them for all of these years...WTF? I have TRIED or I wouldn't be here. I have DENIED my SELF and everything that makes me who I am and where I came from...and it just came back to bite me in the butt because as the good doc said

how long can I sacrifice my most basic needs for the sake of this marriage...

meanwhile...my spouse is performing harder than ever for my approval. Doing little things, even though I plainly stated that annoys me-it isn't about the little things...don't wait on me!!!!!

damn...bet you're sorry you asked!

I am in hell.

next session of counselling Thursady-we will be brought back in together again after our seperate sessions and given the "game plan" I guess. He said "well if you want to try...you must know...it is not going to be eaay...not at all and you are both going to have to change"

Yipee...can't wait to see what I need to change...I'm sure it's something that wont make me very happy...worse yet is what can my spouse change?

Is my spouse suddenly going to love music like I do? Have similar musical tastes? (got 5 CD's from me this month-I don't think any of them were appreciated. Just about 5 different genres included too) Have a past similar to mine? have interests in the paranormal, unusual, religion, history, conspiracies suddenly? Become more talkative...become more interesting? (sorry, but...)become more interested or supportive of my efforts in music, writing, etc...become more spiritual?

See it's not about the little things...it's about who we are...why should people have to change WHO they are at the core to make things work...and HOW can they? How can I NOT be who I am , and how can they be someone they are not? vice versa-not trying to put anyone down or lift myself up-just spelling out the core of our differences/incompatibility

How can I go through life not being loved for who I am-just for who I am

geez..not that anyone will read this-or this far, but at least I feel a bit better rambling it all out...I think I feel better... maybe not

Originally posted by thinktomuch
See it's not about the little things...it's about who we are...why should people have to change WHO they are at the core to make things work...and HOW can they? How can I NOT be who I am , and how can they be someone they are not? vice versa-not trying to put anyone down or lift myself up-just spelling out the core of our differences/incompatibility

My good man, I could not agree with you more. I can certainly (truly) feel your frustration and pain.

When it comes down to it there is only you. What makes you a unique person. And if you aren't compatable at the very core, as you say...

..then what is there?

Thanks....it's a tough situation. It does kind of *help* when someone gets it...understands...empathisizes or sympathizes.

It's hell on earth. When I think of the logistics involved with a seperation... ugh...it just seems so impossible right now

it seems like I'll be trapped for at least another year...getting counselling..."trying"...staying together for the kids, for convenience...hoping and trying to "change" and knowing it is in vain...wondering how much and for how long things can be feigned

and then what?

I just don't know...feels rather hopeless though, but how do I not let it show...for the sake of the kids

:bnghd:

I am a man who is in almost the exact same position. I haven't seen intimacy in years - at all.

I was cheated on in a previous marriage and even had a child - when she turned 2, I found out she wan't mine. I brought that into my current marriage unfortunately.

I cheated 10 years ago and was a selfish person during the first 4-5 years of our marriage. My wife stayed with me and forgave me, but as time went by, our past hurts her more and more. I am full of regrets. I made bad choices in the past because I was selfish and wanted more.

I learned from my mistakes, made numerous changes and made sure I would never repeat those years. I have damaged my marriage and I am trying to get it back on track. For 6 years now I am very different. I DID change - it CAN be done. You CAN get the spark back.

Why?

Western culture has a VERY high divorce rate. I wanted to know why.

I found that our culture creates IWM. Yes IWM - 'I Want More'. We take so much for granted that we don't realize how good we have it and we want more than we have.

I hated my wife at one time and I wanted out, but then I started to look within myself and did much research.

We often want more instead of looking at what we already have. I have a wife who is good, giving, honest and beautiful. I learned that I was being 'western' and wanted more. I learned that I already have it good. Many have it worse than I by far. I learned that I was blind in many area's because I focussed on her faults. I learned to love my wife because she IS good enough. Everyone has their faults.

Many people get divorced, later re-marry, and end up miserable AGAIN!!

Because of my past, we are in a similar situation now. We both want it to work, mostly for the kids, and we are usually distant because I know she has bad feelings towards me. She is getting ready to start therapy to try and get rid of old pains - mainly the murder of her Mom.

We are together right now mostly for the kids, but there is still that tiny little spark that wants our flame to burn again.

My advice: It sounds like your partner is pretty good. Why can't you learn to love what you DO have?

That is what I did, and my wife is working on that now.