For many years while I was a teenager I used to listen mainly to distorted music of the extreme kinds like various kinds of metal music as well as hardcore punk. As I grew up older, I learned to appreciate more "clean" and profound sounds such as in classical music, as well as more contemporary stuff like electronica and alternative "anti-rock" (à la Radiohead).

With distance, I noticed that there's something's wrong with the mainstream distorted "rock" music that the average young guy listens to... seems to me it's the vibration rate of the distorted guitars, that almost white-noise "grinding" sound that makes your ears go crazy when you listen to it in the morning. I have this same feeling now towards these grinding distorsion noises that I had towards the smell of cigarette tobacco a few months after I have quitted smoking. You just have that feeling that people around you are killing off their minds with somekind of aggressive, repetitive and irritating noise.

Now I'm aware of how sound, especially background sounds can influence behaviour and the overall well-being of people, and that ELF sounds waves and "woodpecker" signals were used in the past (and still today?) to influence both telecommunications and human behaviour... So I was wondering wether electric guitar distorsions, by being used massively in the music industry, would'nt be used as a form of massive mind control technology aimed at numbing the minds of youngsters.

I don't wanna bash rock music, awesome things were made in the field, especially in the '60s-'70s. I'm referring more to the mainstream post-rock garbage that teens are growing up with today.

So does anybody ever heard of potential mind control issues in relation to this? Or perhaps any researches made on the mental health implications of distorted guitar sounds? Above all, who ever wondered, just as I do, about the music industry's neverending urge to promote and support distorted guitars??? Why is it so important to them?

I know this might seem over-the-top as a conspiracy theory, but it could'nt be worse than the whole reptilian-thing...

[edit on 27/1/06 by Echtelion]

[edit on 27/1/06 by Echtelion]

[edit on 27/1/06 by Echtelion]

[edit on 27/1/06 by Echtelion]

[edit on 27/1/06 by Echtelion]

That is an interesting theory. It is widely known (or at least believed; I think I've seen contradicting arguments) that classical music does have an effect on one's ability to think--the "Mozart Effect" as it's called. I see no reason why different styles of music have different effects on a person's mental state. I would also imagine that music with lyrics has an even stronger effect--it's one thing to hear a distorted guitar and get aggressive, but combined with lyrics that are written to get the adrenaline pumping, you've got the indirect/quasi-instinctual effect of the music combined with the "rational" influence the lyrics have as the person is being "talked up" (for lack of a better phrase.)

I personally have never heard of any research done into the effects of distortion, although I don't think music could be solely blamed for anyone's mental state. Granted, there's a particular image that is portrayed with every different type of music, and people who love a certain style often want to emulate the grunge rocker, cowboy, or thug that is considered the stereotype of a genre. Classical music generally gives an air of sophistication and intelligence, and that may have a greater effect on one's mental performance than the music--one may already be able to get that A on a test, but listening to Mozart makes them want to be intellectual and more subdued than listening to Rancid.

Just my two cents Good theory though--definitely worth keeping in mind next time I buy a cd.

The only other mind control issues in music other than the hilarious, "play your zeppelin/beatles/judas priest records backwards and you hear pro satan, pro murder/suicide messages" that I ever heard are a couple of Jimi Hendrix quotes from interviews that he gave ages ago.

"ATMOSPHERES ARE GOING TO COME THROUGH MUSIC, BECAUSE THE MUSIC IS A SPIRITUAL THING OF ITS OWN. ... I can explain everything better through music. YOU HYPNOTIZE PEOPLE to where they go right back to their natural state, which is pure positive-like childhood when you got natural highs. And when you get people at weakest point, you can preach into the subconscious what we want to say. That's why the name 'electric church' flashes in and out" (Hendrix, interview with Robin Richman "An Infinity of Jimis," Life magazine, Oct. 3, 1969).

and:

"ONCE YOU HAVE SOME TYPE OF RHYTHM, LIKE IT CAN GET HYPNOTIC IF YOU KEEP REPEATING IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Most of the people will fall off by about a minute of repeating. You do that say for three or four or even five minutes if you can stand it, and then it releases a certain thing inside of a person's head. IT RELEASES A CERTAIN THING IN THERE SO YOU CAN PUT ANYTHING YOU WANT RIGHT INSIDE THAT, YOU KNOW. So you do that for a minute and all of a sudden you can bring the rhythm down a little bit and then you SAY WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY right into that little gap. It's somethin' to ride with, you know. You have to ride with something.' (source not supplied)

I know this deals with the repetition of the same riff or series of notes rather than a particular type or frequency of distortion that you asked about in your post but Hendrix was a pioneer of using distortion so it would seem logical that if he ever did this to a live audience it would have been with a stratocaster at the breaking point that was his style rather than on the 'clean' channel setting.

On the other hand it could all be bunk and what you've experienced is just your ear for music and sounds developing with time/maturity. I had a similar phase in my late teens when after listening purely to metal/punk/grunge/rock in the early nineties I got kind of sick of 90% of stuff that was coming out and just looked elsewhere for inspiration and fulfillment. I also had money coming in to buy a wider selection of records rather than relying on cassette copies from friends. Don't get me wrong I still love heavy bands NiN, tool, QOTSA, Slayer but can appreciate Neil Young, Carole King, and other mellow stuff which I would not have even considered in my ignorant youth!

One last thing and I in NO WAY mean this in a derogatory fashion or as a put down but if guitar music, "makes your ears go crazy when you listen to it in the morning" then you could have an inner ear condition that needs to be checked out as soon as. I hope this is not the case.






[edit on 27/1/2006 by Rhesus Negative]

[edit on 27/1/2006 by Rhesus Negative]

[edit on 27/1/2006 by Rhesus Negative]

Im 'getting up there' in age (39) and I grew up on metal/old school punk.

I think its just an age/mature type deal for us 'old' metal heads.Sure I still listen to that music,and I still go to the concerts,but personally I think that todays 'mainstream rock' music is crap.For that matter,I dont even listen to the real radio,except for some talk radio time to time.

That being said,I have 'rediscovered' new wave from the 80's,and I am a dj for an 80's internet radio station.I think music from our generation has way more meaning than todays pre-fab crap

Jello Biafra said it best "MTV get off the air"..How prophetic was that song over 20 years ago.

and someone who hangs out with a couple of muso pals - what you might be hearing is the difference in technology we use to change the sounds. I still use a set of BOSS pedals made in the eighties - but the new sounds are very much influenced by digital sound modeling - included in some of the newer amps. Those of us who grew up playing the earlier stuff tend to espouse the newer technology - like moving from valve to digital because it produces a raunchier crunch sound. I guess its like someone who grew up on chamber music hearing Mik Kominski or Sky.

Most of the time mind control messages are hidden in softer easy listening music commonly referred to as elevator music. Heavy distortion is to much of an overlay for good transmission of subliminal messages from what my audio geek friends tell me.

It's up for debate as to whether embedded subliminal messages are really that effective. But all large department store chains in their background music have messages that say; "I am honest, I will not steal" below consciousness level.

In my rig I use a big muff & an old tube screamer. I like distorted guitar sounds but not so much as to cover the nuance of your playing.

[edit on 27-1-2006 by whaaa]

whaaa, I was not refering to hidden, subliminal messages in music. I'm talking about the industry potentially using particular sound patterns, frequencies and vibrations (or oscillations) through distorted music in order to alter people's minds and will, more on a long term basis.

As an Audio Engineering student in my past we studied Physcoacoustics.

Different frequencies and combinations of frequencies in the audiable range of human hearing can have a profound effect on the human mind and body.

A cool device I used to use for live sound systems was called the Aphex Aural Exiter. It used phase shifting of the audio frequencies to make it easier for the human brain to process the music the ear was sending it.

This technology can also be used to inflict pain and radical emotions on people if you choose to do so and the military is well aware of it's potential.

I don't think that your average distorted guitar audio could cause this to happen to people though.

kc0jfy

Originally posted by Echtelion
whaaa, I was not refering to hidden, subliminal messages in music. I'm talking about the industry potentially using particular sound patterns, frequencies and vibrations (or oscillations) through distorted music in order to alter people's minds and will, more on a long term basis.

Oh,
I don't know about industry trying to alter peoples' minds but I'll bet the military, black ops guy, and other control freaks like NSA, CIA etc.

There is a Book called "Superlearning" that recommends listening to Baroque era music to enhance the learning curve. It's by Lyall Watson.

I tried it but I couldn't tell much difference. Studying to smooth music is sure better than trying to concentrate with Primus in the background.

I think its more the aggresive lyrics, which include "hate" are more likely the cause for a sort of mind control, but in my opinion its more the "artists" lack of responsibility for the messages they are sending. Metal bands are full of #, soz so swear, but its true...blood, hate, fear...its all quite sad!

Im a musician on the other end of the spectrum...thank God!
Woodsy

I try to use natural gain as much as I can insted of some cheap pedal. Although, when we play metal we usually use low level pedal distortion. Much of the richness in the tone is lost otherwise.


I can't stand any new mainsteem band's guitar tones. They are terrible.


I think its this damn EMO music thats subliminal. Have you seen how many depressed screwed up kids there are these days??

[edit on 28-1-2006 by Spreadthetruth]

It's the drum's man

shaman's have used drums for millenia to enter trance like states, a drum beat over 120bpm will induce a hypnogogic state much more easily than a guitar rhythm or melody, which travels across frequency ranges and tempo. This is more likely to induce imagination, which is not what you really want in a mind control scenario. I could see a buch of flouro disco biscuit eating zombies marching off in unison to an unseen future with little to no question, as long as it had a cracking doof soundtrack. . .

with that said, who know's, maybe they could say, introduce a "feeling signature" at mastering stage. With waveforms captured from an fMRI machine or such and introduced by a process similar to the Aphex aural exciter or dolby spectral recording or holophonics. the band need never know, the management need never know. . .

whaaIn my rig I use a big muff & an old tube screamer

Tube screamer, niice
mxr distortion+ that was my first and the best distortion pedal i ever had.

This reminds me other the "Messages In Water" book by that Japanese scientist. A few of his pictures are found in "What The Bleep.." during the subway scene. Anyways, besides using messages taped to water bottles, he played music to the water. The ice crystals formed during classical music had a much more geometric and 'nice' look to them, while the ice crystals formed during heavy metal music looked more disordered, though not totally chaotic like the patterns formed by evil intentions. Sure this could sound like a bunch of bull****, but what if it wasnt? I mean, you are mostly water after all..

And I saw a web site a while ago which was all about the backwards masking in music. The dude claims that all music and even things we say include messages that can sometimes be heard when played backwards. Kinda like a "bible code;" this voice code is just a natrual part of speech. And a songs true meaning can be heard when played backwards. One example was how Stairway to Heaven was really not evil like people had thought. Another example was about how his baby's voice when played backwards revealed it saying "whats that" when speaking in baby jibberish and touching his microphones..

I listen to punk, but I do appreceate any song that is well made, including classical and rap... maybe not country.. But I think that having listened to punk since I was in my moms womb has probably made my "natural level" of music tolerance set at fast+hard. And most songs dont sound good cause they're too slow.

Originally posted by Spreadthetruth
I think its this damn EMO music thats subliminal. Have you seen how many depressed screwed up kids there are these days??

It's not emo, it's because they see all the crap that's on MTV nowdays

This is probably better suited for another thread, but I figured I'd throw it out here anyways. Most likely, it's just a matter of perception. When I was in high school, about 10 years ago (c/o '99, whatever the math for all the years comes out to), most of the kids I knew were depressed and screwed up. It was something I even noticed while I was growing up, pretty much from late elementary on.

Maybe I just grew up in some weird areas, but that was always part of being a teenager--you're constantly depressed, you hate the world, the world hates you, and you get it out of your system with whatever the current teenage-angst-driven music of the week is. Currently that's emo, when I was in high school it was mainly goth & industrial, before that I believe it was grunge.

Originally posted by Echtelion
So does anybody ever heard of potential mind control issues in relation to this? Or perhaps any researches made on the mental health implications of distorted guitar sounds? Above all, who ever wondered, just as I do, about the music industry's neverending urge to promote and support distorted guitars??? Why is it so important to them?

You might be on to something, but my guess is that your musical tastes are maturing. My story is like yours. When I began to expand my music listening experience, then I discovered musical enjoyment that I had never known before and eventually lost interest in most of the popular music I grew up with. It's not that I don't like that music anymore, it's just that there is more interesting and enjoyable music to listen to. To me, that's what music is all about--an endless journey of discovery in both the old and the new.

[edit on 2006/1/29 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
To me, that's what music is all about--an endless journey of discovery in both the old and the new.

Excellent line. I hope you don't mind me appropriating that for my sig--that's even better than the Reznor quote I had IMO.

Be my guest. I'm flattered to think that I'm actually quotable.

Explain "mainstream rock." Are you referring to metal, aternative rock, or what? As for me, I listen to anything that's created well, with good rhythm, instuments, and sound effects. Lyrics, to me, are like another type of rhythm. I find that I prefer music with complexity. It's great listening to all those instruments and vocals just fall together into a song. To Grady philpott, nice quote.

Rock/metal is just another art form. A painting or a statue elicit the same sort of response. Are you trying to say its going to make us go out and kill a person? The thing that we should be worried about is the image of stupidy/fame popstars promote these days. I cant remeber the last time pop music made me think unlike more alternitive music.

I read a article years ago that listning to classical music does not have any greater effect on the development of your childs mind compared to other forms of music.

Originally posted by Lifeadventurer
Explain "mainstream rock." Are you referring to metal, aternative rock, or what? As for me, I listen to anything that's created well, with good rhythm, instuments, and sound effects. Lyrics, to me, are like another type of rhythm. I find that I prefer music with complexity. It's great listening to all those instruments and vocals just fall together into a song. To Grady philpott, nice quote.

By definition, "alternative" rock is the CONTRARY to "mainstream" rock. Why some commercial, mainsteam bands have been considered "alternative" is far beyond me! I refer to mainstream as rock that is produced in a commercial fashion, and usually has aims for the big market. And this also implies artists who produce under major labels of course. Commercial rock is also often refered to as being "radio friendly" (as that's the kind of trash you listen to on commercial radio stations) and having marketing appeal. Alternative bands, on the contrary, produce with indie labels, or are even self-produced, and they never aim at attaining commercial success, so their music will never be shaped for such aim and they will have total artistic control over what they do.

But then again, the line is not always clear between mainstream and more "artistic-oriented" kinds of sounds. Take Franz Ferdinand, by example... even is they are indie and have lots of artistic value they do big scores on the billboards.

[edit on 30/1/06 by Echtelion]