Holland's New Greetings For Immigrants

Once one of Europe's most immigrant-friendly countries, the Netherlands has lately been cracking down. A new proposal that only Dutch be spoken on the streets of Holland is just the latest idea. Boot camps for immigrants are also being considered.

service.spiegel.de...

For once in my life I think the US should follow the Dutch example here, this is a great idea, long overdue.

Force Americans to speak Dutch???


BTW what about tourists

maybe a tourist-bootcamp to learn the basics ??

Retarded idea in my opinion. If we were to implement and English only policy in the states, that would be going against everything this country was founded on. Remember we are a melting pot, many different races, creeds, backgrounds, languages, and cultures. To me its one of the things in this country that are great, I can go down the road, and get authentic mexican food, good stuff I must say.

Good for the Netherlands.
This is what happens when immigrants push their host country too far.
It changes the population from a tolerant society into an intolerant society.

it doesnt say illegal immigrant,besides... [mod edit for violation of T&C]

[edit on 1/25/2006 by Gools]

I am not in favor of a law that says you must speak English in America, but I am in favor of one that says you must read English to understand traffic signs, government paperwork, employment applications, etc.

well criminals in holland are for most north african , and people from the dutch island aruba bonaire ect and well if we want them educated to them that what they did wasn't the way to act well those youngsters may not being punished as people from 18 years and older. and they know it they are being sentenced to several weeks of prison or work duty.
they are send back in society and repeat there crimes agains this has to stop and well

for all to know the people I speak of are even been taken in to groups like alqaida such as the hofstad group currently for court for terrorism
after the attacks 9/11 they went on the streets with flags and they were celibrating the attacks and were yelling allah is great.

then there is that we haven't got enough cels in the prison system to put them all to so as a dutch inhabitant I am even for sending back criminals after there 3th criminal act back to there back to there own country and punish the original inhabitants harder in our own prison system. 70 to 90 percent of the criminals in the prison system are from foreign countries like turkey, marocco ect .

well before going to say we are doing things wrong by doing this other than this didn't work and we have major problems and if something like paris erupts here we will have it even worse then paris.

we have been to soft for years and now its time to be harder than we did .

and before critics are going to shout look at the facts first. I have been working for school with the amsterdam police department and I am working with security as profesion. well I have seen the problems I stil see the problems even several weeks ago I had a discussion there were dutch people original coming from suriname ect wel they say I am not dutch I am a surnimer. they don;t want to adjust they only want to be lifing there lifes like they did in ther own.

there are problems and throwing money at it and creating groups which were there to help those people intergrate into our society didn't work ..
now we have to take other massures

we have great problems , wel say grave problems.

Originally posted by ludaChris
Retarded idea in my opinion. If we were to implement and English only policy in the states, that would be going against everything this country was founded on. Remember we are a melting pot, many different races, creeds, backgrounds, languages, and cultures. To me its one of the things in this country that are great, I can go down the road, and get authentic mexican food, good stuff I must say.

well what if you go to a governement institute if you are unemployed and you want state suport money and the people you went to begin speaking to you in arabic or another foreign speach.
how would you feel. then?

this is happening in rotterdam and amsterdam the signs should be dutch or frysk and maybe english but no they went on and placed signs in arabic turkish ect wel that is just stupid they are lifing here and they should adopt our speach and writting.

no its like this nowadays they are going to give lesons to dutch children to learn aribic.

you know what the sentiment is nowadays the dutch have to be tollerant and addept to them instead of them adjusting to us .

what would you do if you lifing in the usa must addept to the foreing immigrants like mexicans and you have to let your culture go and learn to be a mexican, speaking writting lifing like a mexican well that is currently going on in holland wel just don't be such a critic before knowing what is going on.

I life in holland and they want me to change to be like them its just like wo2 when we had to speak german and life like the germans wanted us to life. that is the problem what is going on.
sorry if you don't believe me but this is realy going on.

Originally posted by Scylding
Force Americans to speak Dutch???


BTW what about tourists

maybe a tourist-bootcamp to learn the basics ??

no this is only for people wanting to life in holland.
I have to learn and speak and addept to america if I want to life there
and that is just what we ask of them.

sorry but aceofbase is right this time.

[edit on 25-1-2006 by MarkLuitzen]

Originally posted by SE420
it doesnt say illegal immigrant,besides Ludachris u are both ignorant racist

How exactly was what he said racist?
Also, please do not insult people by calling them such things, not only is it rude, but it is also against the ATS terms and conditions.

I agree with LudaChris on this, it would be a foolhardy(SP?) idea to impliment such a thing here in America.

I wonder who will dare to stop me or anyone of my friends and family in Holland if we speak Papiamento or English with each other on the road. I usually speak Dutch with Dutch people; even here in Aruba I do that.

That's all I want to know.

And furthermore some Dutch people refuse to speak Papiamento in Aruba. Should we apply that law here as well? It's a ridiculous law IMO and I don't mind at all if foreigners want to speak their own language with each other when they're on the street. It's NATURAL!! When they speak to someone else, then they speak Dutch. When I was living there I did the exact same thing. I spoke English or Papiamento on the train, on the bus, in the street etc... Who should have a problem with that??

Originally posted by SE420
it doesnt say illegal immigrant,besides Ludachris u are both ignorant racist

You mean I'm racist or they are? If you mean them, I dont think theyre racist. I know there are many problems with immigration in Europe. Alot of it has to do with the attacks in Spain and England. I dont blame them, that kind of thing would put anyone on edge. Its not a perfect world so dont expect perfect people, we all have our biases and they are developed upon our experiences. To address the Holland problem, I really cant to tell you the truth, Ive never been there and dont know what its like or what the problems are. If I were to base my opinion upon the above statement describing crime in Holland, I would have to say it isnt a bad idea. The fact that these minorities dont speak Dutch, could be a major problem not only for civilians, but what about the police who have to enforce the law. In American schools we have the option to learn other languages, I chose Spanish, been doing it 10 years still dont know it all but I can communicate with Spanish speakers enough to where I will in the future be able to do my job more effectively than if I didnt. Implementing such a policy in America would be impossible, Holland is much smaller in land and population, it would be more realistic to implement there.

[edit on 1/25/2006 by ludaChris]

[edit on 1/25/2006 by ludaChris]

[edit on 1/25/2006 by ludaChris]

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Good for the Netherlands.

Uhm... No, not good.

This is what happens when immigrants push their host country too far.

You don't know half of the history with immigrants in the Netherlands. These same foreigners have often had to tolerate racism from Dutch people (I am not talking about all Dutch people though) since the 50's & 60's when immigration to the Netherlands started to grow. I myself have experienced it, and numerous members of my family have experienced it also.

They wanted to tell my mother that everybody in Aruba were extremely poor and primitive and lived in trees.
Another one brought candles on a flight to Aruba because he was convinced Aruba didn't have electricity.
Almost everytime Aruba or Curacao is mentioned in the Dutch media it's because they have something negative to say about the islands.
The Dutch media were always heavily biased against my cousin and most of his black teamates who were playing on the Dutch national soccer team.
On tv they were against Antillians being part of the Dutch national baseball team, only to take back their words after the Antillians were primarily responsible for the victory against Cuba (I think in the olympics or world championship).
One of my best friends (Arubian) was confronted by skinheads while he was at the ATM machine to get money, they only backed off when they saw his police ID in his wallet.
Another friend of mine (also Arubian, but muslim looking) was sitting in the train when a skinhead sat down opposite to her, stared her down and put a big knife on the train table in front of her, he even tried to follow her when she got off the train but she was able to lose him.
Together with my friends I was denied entrance to a nightclub in Rotterdam because the bouncer said "members only", we stood accross the street for a while and saw numerous white people enter and leave without problems and without even having to show an ID...I can go on and on about similar stories...

Of course there are lots of bad apples among the immigrants as well, Marrocans and Antillians (from Curacao) are often involved in gangs, crime and other violent life in Holland, but Dutch people are equally as involved. But the foreigners tend to be mentioned in the media more.

It changes the population from a tolerant society into an intolerant society.

Dutch tolerance is a myth. See above...

Btw... I wouldn't mind that they implement this law if you are in situations where you have to speak Dutch. In school, at work, in official situations, in stores to the clercks, buying train tickets etc... etc... But don't prohibit people from speaking their own language to their own people if they want to.

Are they going to stop a Frenchman or German visiting Holland from asking for directions in French??

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Of course there are lots of bad apples among the immigrants as well, Marrocans and Antillians (from Curacao) are often involved in gangs, crime and other violent life in Holland, but Dutch people are equally as involved. But the foreigners tend to be mentioned in the media more.

If they committed crimes at the same rate then why are half of the prisoners foreigners when they only account for 10% of the population?

Dutch tolerance is a myth. See above...

How did the immigrant population grow so large if they are so racist?
Why didn't they just restrict immigration?

[edit on 25-1-2006 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Good for the Netherlands.

Uhm... No, not good.

This is what happens when immigrants push their host country too far.

You don't know half of the history with immigrants in the Netherlands. These same foreigners have often had to tolerate racism from Dutch people (I am not talking about all Dutch people though) since the 50's & 60's when immigration to the Netherlands started to grow. I myself have experienced it, and numerous members of my family have experienced it also.

They wanted to tell my mother that everybody in Aruba were extremely poor and primitive and lived in trees.
Another one brought candles on a flight to Aruba because he was convinced Aruba didn't have electricity.
Almost everytime Aruba or Curacao is mentioned in the Dutch media it's because they have something negative to say about the islands.
The Dutch media were always heavily biased against my cousin and most of his black teamates who were playing on the Dutch national soccer team.
On tv they were against Antillians being part of the Dutch national baseball team, only to take back their words after the Antillians were primarily responsible for the victory against Cuba (I think in the olympics or world championship).
One of my best friends (Arubian) was confronted by skinheads while he was at the ATM machine to get money, they only backed off when they saw his police ID in his wallet.
Another friend of mine (also Arubian, but muslim looking) was sitting in the train when a skinhead sat down opposite to her, stared her down and put a big knife on the train table in front of her, he even tried to follow her when she got off the train but she was able to lose him.
Together with my friends I was denied entrance to a nightclub in Rotterdam because the bouncer said "members only", we stood accross the street for a while and saw numerous white people enter and leave without problems and without even having to show an ID...I can go on and on about similar stories...

Of course there are lots of bad apples among the immigrants as well, Marrocans and Antillians (from Curacao) are often involved in gangs, crime and other violent life in Holland, but Dutch people are equally as involved. But the foreigners tend to be mentioned in the media more.

It changes the population from a tolerant society into an intolerant society.

Dutch tolerance is a myth. See above...

but you can't say there are no major problems with rape in southern parts around the ahoy were girls are being raped by groups of people from marocco and antilians .

what about amsterdam east with the problems there even the mayor of amsterdam cohen has said he is afraid and that he is losing control .

lately it erupted again after a while of silence when a maroccan boy 17 years fleeing for the police on its scooter which runt faster then allowed and then died fleeing when he hit a lightmast along the road.
it was then the police who killed him and they started riots.

and that many of the criminal acts more than 90 percent in the randstad is being done by foreign immigrants and there offspring.

Its just those people who are creating a hate against groups of foreigners who are willing and are trying to intergrate or are intergrated all ready.

there is something to be done about that and if the Pvda or groenlinks (politicparties) are denying and have done that for years are trying to soften the things they done and claim it is our own fault we aren't getting further we have to do something and the soft aproche didnt work now we need to go on and being tougher.

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Of course there are lots of bad apples among the immigrants as well, Marrocans and Antillians (from Curacao) are often involved in gangs, crime and other violent life in Holland, but Dutch people are equally as involved. But the foreigners tend to be mentioned in the media more.

If they committed crimes at the same rate then why are half of the prisoners foreigners when they only account for 10% of the population?

Dutch tolerance is a myth. See above...

How did the immigrant population grow so large if they are so racist?
Why didn't they just restrict immigration?

[edit on 25-1-2006 by AceOfBase]

many people wanted to but it wasn't popular to say so.
we had the CD (centrum democrates) which then became blocked and followed by the police because of saying our land was to full.

then we got Pim fortuyn which later was being killed
now we haven't got more political party's who are now saying it because of him.

every attempt of getting less imigrants were blocked by left winged parties like sp pvda groenlinks
and imigration policy is being controlled not by holland itselfs but more and more is being controlled by the EU
we have some controlle but the basics are being stated by EU .

The Netherlands is a small country and they definitely have the right to protect their language and culture. But, since I go there a lot and have Dutch friends, I hope speaking English on the streets won't get banned since I unfortunately can't speak Dutch myself. If I ever moved there, I'd begin taking Dutch language classes immediately though.

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Good for the Netherlands.

Of course there are lots of bad apples among the immigrants as well, Marrocans and Antillians (from Curacao) are often involved in gangs, crime and other violent life in Holland, but Dutch people are equally as involved. But the foreigners tend to be mentioned in the media more.

euh have you ever been on an excursion to several of our prisons?

well I have and I know people who do and I know for sure I have seen it. allmost all of the prisoners are foreigners. and that is not the media who is only mentioning them more as you say.

its a fact that you they are more involved and yes there are some dutch people in prison but less .

statline.cbs.nl...,!0

[edit on 25-1-2006 by MarkLuitzen]

Originally posted by AceOfBase

If they committed crimes at the same rate then why are half of the prisoners foreigners when they only account for 10% of the population?

Can you post your source for that?? Because that is constantly brought up as an argument by some of those Pim Fortuyn sympatizers. I think half of the prisoners is exaggerating, but I may be wrong.

Never mind, Mark has already posted it.

How did the immigrant population grow so large if they are so racist?
Why didn't they just restrict immigration?

Not all Dutch people are racist of course, but there are a lot of them, so don't get me wrong on that... The immigrant population is just as large anywhere else. The Dutch are very image conscious towards the outside world and want to be portrayed as intelligent, progressive and tolerant. That's a reason why.

[edit on 25-1-2006 by TheBandit795]

[edit on 25-1-2006 by TheBandit795]