mms://sql2.slicker.com:1890/sanfordforgovernor/2020.wmv

I knew public education wasn't that good in America, but is it really this bad? Pffft!

Watch the video, it's quite intresting ... and a bit amusing too. The sad thing is, it's getting worse here in Scandinavia too, even though my country ranked 1st in that international PISA test.

I believe it's a great video, but it kinda keeps buffering all the time and can not load into the player. Maybe you have a normal *.avi version that can be downloaded once and for all?

Thanx!

Yeah, it is that bad... believe me! My mother-in-law has been teaching for 32 years, my sister for 10 and both will tell you that our public education system is nothing more than a money conveyor belt. See the government attaches funds to students so that disctricts might provide them an education. What happens is that those funds are not attached specifically to a particular student, they are instead cost-averaged over a particular grade and the schools supplied the money in lump. There is no incentive for a school to hold a failing student back, in fact, the opposite occurs. When a failing student is held back it actually drops the average spent per student, thus costing the disctrict more. As a result, simple economics dictate that they promote the failing student to the next grade in order to ensure funding for both that student's current grade level without diluting the funding for the upcoming class.

In short, administration and bureaucracy have ensured that most of the money that goes to educate our students goes toward non-education... administrator's salaries, non-school buildings and equipment, specialists etc... Their only incentive is to protect their budgets and their cushy jobs! This MUST come to an end!

Lol,

Yeah, it's that bad, and I graduated 2 years ago from the #4 public school in the state. I was reading at a graduate college level as a hobby, but I only got ask to "get ahead" once, but since they taught the cirriculium "Weird" and I was having a bad two months, I was moved back to U.S. Goverment class instead with US Govt info and UN propaganda in our textbooks, but the teachers never noticed an ounce.

What's sad is even with all the smart kids I knew in school, most couldn't get ahead because math was the grade maker or killer for ya' there. So I was just an average C+ student.

Few years ago, an old friend of mine, asked me to help his young son (first or second year of high school, if I recall) in his math course (I lived in Québec, Canada).

I accepted, so at some point, there was a problem, something like:

You are a lot 55' x 100', with a house 30' x 30' + a driveway (let say 10' x 30') + a garden 10' x 12', what is the area of the lawn.

So that young fellow, pick his calculator, push numbers in a hurry, come up with an answer (-88000) and start writing it down on his book.

When I pointed out to him, to think about this a little (number being negative + bigger than the original lot), he look at me in dismay, and show me the display of his calculator, with a face that meant: "hey dude, there is an answer here, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ??? !!!"

Now, if he was alone like that, it will not be that bad, but he was typical of kids his age. Obviously, today he work at the same place his father work, after dropping school.

Anyway, that was quite a shock, I do recall this little story, like a marker of how bad thing had sunk, since I was in high school.

That video kind of shocked me...

I'll speak for Quebec (cos I'm not very familiar with the systems in the other provinces...I think they closely resemble your American system)
In Quebec we have two official provincial languages, so we have to be apt at speaking both French and English...There are two main schoolboards (the French and the English) which have their say over our education.

I personally think that there is a lot of unnecessary subject matter and that they're giving us more than we can handle. In the video, it talks about how the schools should be shut down if their students' test scores are low...Here, if you are way below average (which is usually in the mid 70s-low 80s) you start facing complications. The administration has the right to kick you out of the school! And so, we are faced in finding another institution...Fortunately, there are a lot of schools willing to take you in, but many have the same "we'll kick you out" policy...

To tell you the truth, I admire that policy...It instills a sense of 'fear' (dont take it litteraly) in the students, making them more studious and careful about where their marks are going...We only have governmental exams at the end of Secondary four and five (grade 10 and 11...Our program goes up to 11, after that it's CEGEP which is basically college) and those are usually well done, with a few exceptions of course.

We are absolutely free to pick any school of our choice...For all the municipal government cares, it can be out of town, anywhere! I was very surprised that people are restrained to their districts...

The public system here, in contrast with the one in America, spends much less on every student, and yet Quebec's students are more skilled...So money definitely isnt the issue! The whole "Government Funding" thing got old, fast...we all know where that money goes! Into the pockets of the administration. Flashy new computers and volleyballs really don't improve student's abilities...

Another thing is intelligence...IQ...In a country that's nearly completely dominated by pop culture, kids no longer observe other things essential to life...They don't want to read, they don't want to think for themselves (who needs to think for themself when they're told what to think by a rapper, or something?)...Poverty isn't that much of a factor in intelligence...It's upbringing...a parent who can't afford stuff is SURELY able to afford a book, and if the kid can't read, well then it starts over again doesnt it? It's a vicious cycle, my friends! I say that if the parents are stupid, the kids will be stupid as well (really, no offence to anybody)

I personally believe parents are partly to blame as so many seem to leave education completely in the hands of school. It needs to happen at home too. Parents must engage their kids about their school work; ask questions, check on their work, and make sure they understand the subject matter.

I think a lot of parents regard school as nothing more than a place to park their kids while they work. And it's sad

[edit on 26-1-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
I personally believe parents are partly to blame as so many seem to leave education completely in the hands of school. It needs to happen at home too. Parents must engage their kids about their school work; ask questions, check on their work, and make sure they understand the subject matter.

I think a lot of parents regard school as nothing more than a place to park their kids while they work. And it's sad

[edit on 26-1-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

I agree, my mother was always trying to help me find help with my math, and always made sure I had my homework done. And always encouraged me to study politics and history, if it made me as happy too in my spare time. I joined clubs in school, and even did a "power point bulletin" for the school for nearly 2 years in middle school for them.

[edit on 1/28/06 by bsbfan1]

I can't say I had shoddy teachers in highschool, because I only had one shoddy teacher. The rest were kind and caring and were willing to help.

I enjoy the way college classes a run. I think it puts a lot on the student to make sure he/she to learn, to pass, to push themselves and define who they are, what they want to be.

I like the idea of parents/guardians choosing their child's school, I see no problem.

That was a pretty good program.
They didn't just rant about how bad the public education system was. They also showed some good success stories and told how it could be changed.

I just hope people who watched that program make the changes that are needed.


[edit on 6-2-2006 by AceOfBase]

Man I saw that whole show when it first aired unionized monopolies suck the big one. That was so messed up how they couldnt even fire sex offender teachers and had to put them In "rubber rooms" and pay them to do nothing

Glad I went to school in one of the best rated States for public schools and SAT scores in the US, and went to a good University which is a level of schooling the US ranks very very well in on a global scale.

its all the damned immigrants !

there is no debate the US system is flawed, but I really get annoyed when this stuff is used to support an anti-US agenda.

I'm sure I could surf the net and find examples of stupidity for every culture on earth.

I'm also sure if I went to the Cleveland Clinic, or Mayo Clinic or MIT I could find one or two smart americans

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
there is no debate the US system is flawed, but I really get annoyed when this stuff is used to support an anti-US agenda.

There's nothing anti-US about it.

Have you watched it? Or are you afraid to?

Yah you would think that a monopoly on the school system would have ended years ago.

i haven't noticed anything like this in my school but then again we are in a rural community, about 100 people per grade so the teachers care how their grades are

anyone have a direct download link to this movie? when i try to watch from the OP's link it plays very stuttery.. i'd like to download this and have a look... thanks.

I always enjoy John Stossel's work. Good video. A perfect example of why unions have no place in a country like ours - rewarding mediocrity is never a way forward. The education majors I went to school with didn't inspire confidence in me of the quality of the public school system, either. They seemed like under-achievers just seeking an easy job.

Those kids at that high school really seemed out of control. But kids these days know they can get away with pretty much anything. They laugh at authority - the point made that 4th graders (c. 10 year-olds if I recall correctly) scored well above the international averages makes me wonder where the parents of high-school kids went wrong. That one teacher kept asking kids to quiet down and get off the desk (?!), but was ignored. Teachers shouldn't have to be half-teacher half-police officer.

The Belgian system had some good ideas (attaching the funds to the student), and while they did quite a bit better than the New Jersey students, they still did pretty badly (their average of one point above failure isn't exactly awe-inspiring.)

The lottery system at the end of the video is awful. They need to just do what magnet and private schools do - have the kids/parents that want in apply, and those with the top grades get in. If a kid has a good teacher, at least average intelligence, and cares about his education there is no reason they should ever score lower than 90% on anything.