National ID System a "Nightmare" for States

The National ID System, which is set to take effect in 2008, is quickly becoming a logisitical dilemma for most, if not all off, the states in the US. There are complications from databases being outdated or backlogged to people not wanting to have their pictures taken for religious beliefs. What makes it even worse is the fact that if this system isn't in place across the US by 2008, people will not be able to board planes or enter federal buildings, creating another logistical quagmire.



First off, I don't see this system working any better than the one we currently have in place. ID's can easily be counterfeited just as money can. When the last "new" $20 bill came out, it was being counterfeited before it even hit the streets.

Secondly, with some of the provisions required by this "National ID", there are a lot of issues involved that have, probably, not even been thought about:

- Licenses must incorporate a "machine-readable technology". From what I'm gathering, this will be in the form of an RFID chip which poses two immediate problems. First, you'll be able to be tracked anywhere you go because RFID chips can be read from up to 100 feet away - so it's basically the first step in the government tracking your every move. Second, anyone who has an RFID reader will be able to steal your information. Sure, they say it will be "encrypted", but encryptions are broken every day. And, who's to say that the guy behind the counter at the DMV or other federal office won't steal your information?

- Criminals don't obey laws. As with gun control, national ID cards will only affect law-abiding citizens. Do we really believe a terrorist bent on murder is going to dutifully obtain a federal ID card? Do we believe that people who openly flout our immigration laws will nonetheless respect our ID requirements? Any ID card can be forged; any federal agency or state DMV is susceptible to corruption. Criminals can and will obtain national ID cards, or operate without them. National ID cards will be used to track the law-abiding masses, not criminals.

There are many more issues involved with this new system, but I will leave it open to discussion.

Related News Links:
www.detnews.com
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www.chron.com
www.cleveland.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
RFID's, I thought they'd dropped this!

[edit on 13-1-2006 by elderban]

[edit on 1/16/06 by FredT]

Licenses must incorporate a "machine-readable technology". From what I'm gathering, this will be in the form of an RFID chip

A barcode is machine readable.

- Licenses must incorporate a "machine-readable technology". From what I'm gathering, this will be in the form of an RFID chip which poses two immediate problems. First, you'll be able to be tracked anywhere you go because RFID chips can be read from up to 100 feet away - so it's basically the first step in the government tracking your every move

That depends on the type of chip being used. Passive RFID chips can only be read a few meters away, and that's under ideal conditions. Active chips could be used, but they add additional cost, up to approx. 5 times a passive chip. That raises the price from about $.25/chip up to $1.25/chip. Defeating the "tracking" capability would be a simple matter with the right type of container, so I don't think it's really an issue.

That is why the hole mess will be readily fix with tagging every child born before it leaves the hospital.

That is going to be next, and its going to be the law very soon.

So no to worry your littler babies will be in the national database with DNA samples.

This will also include babies born from illegal immigrants unless they start having the babies in the houses like in the old days.

We will all be tag, numbered and DNA tested.

marg6043, I believe you are 100% on point.

In regards to the original story, I highly doubt this can be done is a two year time frame. Most states will need an enormous amount of funding before it can even begin.

How will we endure the cost of this?

Marge, while I don’t doubt that a system similar to yours will one day be instituted I doubt it will be "very soon" as you put it. As technology progresses so will the means by which people are identified, tell me Marge, what were the identification systems of 100 years ago? Biometrics is the next step, then who knows what after that.

WestPoint23

It will be soon nerveless, but before the government has to spend money on selling the idea to the American people "As good for the nation" and " Is all for your safety"

Well Marge what do you propose? As the technology progresses so do the ways by which certain individuals can overcome current identification measures. Lets face it Marge, perhaps the reason we did not have stringent identity systems in the past was because there was simply no real need for it. However neither you nor I can deny that today's world is different, and the current measures we have just don't cut it. I wish just like you for the world to be perfect and nice, but its not, its dangerous and messy, as such we have to deal with it and its problems. Pretending problems don't exit will only cause us more trouble, I hope you can understand what I’m trying to say Marge.


[edit on 16-1-2006 by WestPoint23]

As people from other countries use U.S. airports etc., will all other nations have to adopt this law to, in order to stay off America's 'enemy list' and have any trade with her?

If so, why haven't we all been told?

Is it because the U.S. has the largest population to actually want, and look forward to, being tagged like animals?

Is it because tagging the world will be the end of denying the NWO?

Won't not being able to use federal buildings, etc., stop many being able to, "buy and sell", as the Bible warned?

Gee, no wonder there is such a strong anti-Christian campaign. This is the good story they're using to 'sell' acceptance, so just imagine what the end of it will be.

I have to give it to the seers of ancient times they actually knew that the time will come when our babies will be tag like products with bar codes.

Sounds like the mark of the beast to me, but not the mark of a devil but the mark of the NWO.

Let's see Westpoint, will you willingly give your baby to be mark and tag with a microchip for the good of the government?

Marge I’m talking about this current ID system which you seem to have a problem with, I have no desire to discuss hypothetical tagging methods. I hoped that I had made my view of why we need the National ID system clear, but instead you choose to ignore it and go on about different scenarios which are not even being considered. So I ask, can we focus on the current topic, please?

Just as a side note, I get very irritated with people who try and use the bible or any other ancient source as evidence for current events, or events that they think will happen. Can we stick to news reports and current sources?


[edit on 16-1-2006 by WestPoint23]

Get over it westpoint or you are going to age before your time.

You get irritated with anything that has to do with been against what our government wants.

Well I am an old lady and I don't need the government breathing in my neck.

National IDs are a waste of time, I already have more than a few of them and what good it does.

They only pollute my wallet.

I got a military ID already what do I need a national Id when I still will have to use my military one anyway.

Do you know that my military ID is prefer over DLs?

Now cool off and stop been irritated.

Fine Marge, your right we should not have adequate systems of identification, we should let our level of security stay stagnant while measures against them improve. I know trying to convince you is futile so we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Westpoint I believe in security, don't get me wrong.

But I will be darn if I am going to allowed to be tag like an animal for the sake of the nation.

National Ids will be done, and I feel that they would not be successful.

Then what is next, Ids, DNAs and microchips.

Believe me already is in coming in the future.

That is all.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Marge, while I don’t doubt that a system similar to yours will one day be instituted I doubt it will be "very soon" as you put it. As technology progresses so will the means by which people are identified, tell me Marge, what were the identification systems of 100 years ago? Biometrics is the next step, then who knows what after that.

First of all, I find your need to be so condescending with Marg to be quite telling. Does it make you feel better about yourself? More powerful?

Get a grip.

And regarding the subject at hand, it will happen sooner than you realize.

And Marg is right. If you have a child born in an American hospital, chances are similar measures are already being taken.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Marge I’m talking about this current ID system which you seem to have a problem with, I have no desire to discuss hypothetical tagging methods.

You might want to stand back and take a look at the much larger picture. You know, connect the dots, so to speak. Wait, I forgot; that usually entails having acquired some mileage in life - to understand that concept. My bad. I guess by the time you put all this together, it will be too late for you.

I hoped that I had made my view of why we need the National ID system clear,

Actually you did not. Why exactly do we need the National ID system?

but instead you choose to ignore it and go on about different scenarios which are not even being considered.

What Marg brought up is very much a part of this issue. Unfortunately, there are many who only see the smoke being blown their way; and they don't get what this is ultimately about: total control.

Is that what you're into? Letting the state control your entire being for your own good/safety? Not me! Take a look at my sig. Him, either.

Just as a side note, I get very irritated with people who try and use the bible or any other ancient source as evidence for current events, or events that they think will happen. Can we stick to news reports and current sources?

I get irritated with people who spout off about things biblical they know nothing about. It's a source in this debate, irregardless of belief.

I also believe this will usher in the cashless society, which will lead to the "mark of the beast" (micro-chips). The technology is at hand. And so is the consortium.

But I will be darn if I am going to allowed to be tag like an animal for the sake of the nation.

Marge on this I agree with you, but I don't see an upgraded form of Card ID as a “tag like an animal”.

National Ids will be done, and I feel that they would not be successful.

Then what is next, Ids, DNAs and microchips.

I honestly don't know, however I prefer to discuss this current topic rather then throw out wild ideas and hypothetical scenarios even though they might have little chance of actually happening. When you do that it makes me think that your not actually interested in the topic, but rather use is as a medium for you political views.

First of all, I find your need to be so condescending with Marg to be quite telling. Does it make you feel better about yourself? More powerful?

Hey if that's the way you view it, then so be it, I always try to be respectful to everyone.

And Marg is right. If you have a child born in an American hospital, chances are similar measures are already being taken.

Surly you must have some proof that this is being done, or that “similar measure are being taken”?

This is a follow up to my previous post.

You might want to stand back and take a look at the much larger picture. You know, connect the dots, so to speak.

Yeah, connect dots that don't even exits, or connect dots that are widely open to person interpretation.

What Marg brought up is very much a part of this issue. Unfortunately, there are many who only see the smoke being blown their way; and they don't get what this is ultimately about: total control.

Do you have anything other then personal opinion or view to offer me in this regard?

Is that what you're into? Letting the state control your entire being for your own good/safety? Not me! Take a look at my sig. Him, either.

Nope I’m not into that, but like I said before I fail to see how an updated form of CARD ID is going to let the “state control your entire being”.

I get irritated with people who spout off about things biblical they know nothing about. It's a source in this debate, irregardless of belief.

The bible to me is just like any other book, it holds no special meaning or power over me. I don't see its text any more true then the text of any other science fiction book, therefore all references to it as evidence for something will be totally disregarded by me.

Actually you did not. Why exactly do we need the National ID system?

National ID cards are a more secure means to enhance national security, unmask potential terrorists, and guard against illegal immigrants. They create a standard requirement for receiving an ID and due to their nature they will be more difficult to forge then current driver licenses.

This ID is no exception, just like everything else there are pros and cons, in this case I think the benefits outweigh the cons. It should be noted that in 1936 when the Social Security Number was implemented people were convinced “ the mark of the beast” was upon them. There was also the group that thought the state would control their “entire being”, well that turned out to be a bust didn’t it?

[edit on 16-1-2006 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I honestly don't know, however I prefer to discuss this current topic rather then throw out wild ideas and hypothetical scenarios even though they might have little chance of actually happening. When you do that it makes me think that your not actually interested in the topic, but rather use is as a medium for you political views.

There are subjects within this topic that you havn't realized yet. Knowledge you havn't found. A larger view.

Hey if that's the way you view it, then so be it, I always try to be respectful to everyone.

Condescending:

Main Entry: con·de·scend
Pronunciation: "kän-di-'send
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French condescendre, from Late Latin condescendere, from Latin com- + descendere to descend
Date: 14th century
1 a : to descend to a less formal or dignified level : UNBEND b : to waive the privileges of rank
2 : to assume an air of superiority
www2.merriam-webster.com...

Surly you must have some proof that this is being done, or that “similar measure are being taken”?

It's out there, for those willing to do just a little bit of research. Despite those who believe to the contrary, the bible is actually an excellent resource for understanding what is happening now in the mideast, and elsewhere (China, Russia).

the australian government is talking about having national ID's in australia aswell