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RFID's, I thought they'd dropped this!

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posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 12:19 PM
When everyone got wind of htis and nobody liked the idea of being tagged like animals, I figured the corporations would have dropped the idea. Guess not. Seems they are just making them smaller and better.

Who here isn't awake enough to be paranoid, yet?

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 01:10 PM
RFID has potential for surveillance, but it's not much different from using a credit card in the first place. That credit card clearly identifies who you are, what you bought, when you bought it, and where you bought it.

If people are worried about being "spied upon", why are they still using credit cards? Why aren't they paying for everything in cash?

RFID's are still primarily about stopping theft, by both customers and employees. It also has great potential in reducing the cost of shipping, sorting, and delivering merchandise. Also included, is improvement in inventory management and restocking more accurately.

Tracing some one around town by RFID's that they purchased, is paranoid. Nobody is going to bother with the time and cost of doing that, unless that person is worth tracking down.

In that case, that person has something criminal going on, and they should track them by every means possible.

Gillette doing their advertising research through RFID technology, without telling anyone, is clearly annoying, and probably illegal, considering the photos taken. I bet companies will drop it, the cost doesn't justify the gains.

I suspect hospitals will be one of the first to use RFID to it's potential. Tracking patients, records, staff, and medicine.

Boeing labels 787 parts with RFID tags:
US Navy tracks wounded in Iraq:
Hospital patient tracking:
DoD Mandates RFID Use:

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 01:10 PM
This technology is just in its infancy at this stage but will rapidly grow into something all pervasive in our society. They won't demand that every adult be chipped in the beginning, not at first. They will suggest the elderly people with alzhimers need chips (for their safety). People will then want to install chips in babies and children, and the parents will go for it because the media hypes everyone up about abductions. Schools will scan every kid that comes and goes and the technology will be sold as a safety measure.

Airlines will sell a program to their frequent flyers that get you through security faster if you have a chip in your butt cheek, and people will line up to get them. Before long all public transportation will require this form of identification to be able to ride a train or bus.

Retail will be the introduction only, and people will get used to having these devices in every product and in their wallets.

Wal-Mart Stores Inc. says its customers are finding the items they want in stock on shelves more often in stores that are using radio frequency identification technology with embedded electronic product codes, compared with those that are not, according to initial findings from a University of Arkansas study conducted during the last several months.

Researchers found a 16% reduction in out-of-stock merchandise at Wal-Mart stores equipped with RFID labels using EPC codes. The study also shows that out-of-stock items with RFID were replenished three times faster than items using standard bar-code technology. Wal-Mart also experienced a "meaningful reduction" in manual orders resulting in a reduction of excess inventory, according to the university report.

Wal-Mart loves this stuff and they intend on making every supplier start useing this if you want to do business with them. They will tell you how good it is and sell it as a way of ensuring you find the products you want and speeding your check out.

Privacy is an illusion and what little you have left will soon be gone..............

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 01:36 PM
A-D has hit it right on the head. It really isn't what they do with technology today, it is what they aim to do with it tomorrow.

They're the smart people and they're here to help. Yeah, ok.

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 01:43 PM

Originally posted by ZPE StarPilot
RFID has potential for surveillance, but it's not much different from using a credit card in the first place.

Apparently not quite the same.

3. Unlike the bar code, RFID could be bad for your health. RFID supporters envision a world where RFID reader devices are everywhere - in stores, in floors, in doorways, on airplanes -- even in the refrigerators and medicine cabinets of our own homes. In such a world, we and our children would be continually bombarded with electromagnetic energy. Researchers do not know the long-term health effects of chronic exposure to the energy emitted by these reader devices.

Quite frankly, I am less concerned with being tracked than I am being bombarded with readers. I am certain no one is going to be in a hurry to officially let us know if there are long term side affects.

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 02:42 PM

Your not paranoid ! Its scary stuff !

RFID's will allow everybody to be tracked and Identified anywhere.

And I don't think we should track anyone just because they may break a Law. Every single Man ,Woman and child has the potential to break a law, remember that people.

In my mind its no different than the Nazi's tattooing ID numbers on the Jews in WWII, except this time you will be convinced its for your benefit.

[edit on 16-10-2005 by lost_shaman]

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 03:54 PM

The European Central Bank is working with technology partners on a hush-hush project to embed radio frequency identification tags into the very fibers of euro bank notes by 2005, EE Times has learned. Intended to foil counterfeiters, the project is developing as Europe prepares for a massive changeover to the euro, and would create an instant mass market for RFID chips, which have long sought profitable application.

There are still some technical hurdles to overcome as far as the durability of RFID in paper money, but this will be in your cash before you know it. Right now I can get my money from the bank and spend it where I want without it being tracked by "Big Brother". But the time will come that governments will be able to know the exact bills I put in my pocket and where and when I spend them and what item I purchased.

I will not use an Airmiles card or a credit card or join a store club for the very reason that they gather information on my spending habits. They don't want to give you free stuff, they just entice you with crap so you will give up your information without a fight.

I bought a new burner last week and the clerk wanted my name and address for the warrenty. I asked her to give me a receipt, and she tried to convince me that I might lose the piece of paper and I would be safer if I gave them my information. THAT'S JUST BULL.....
I'm quite able to put a receipt in my file cabinet and save it for a year and not have them sell my info to a third party, or use that data to profile me for future sales.

That same day the clerk at Zellers wanted me to sign up for a points card of some sort when I bought some jeans and a garbage can. She told me how many points I could have earned on my purchase and gave be a booklet about the goodies I could get for my collected points. Again, they give you some crap in the hopes you'll give them your valuable information.

RFID in currency will take away my choice to refuse because it will tie all the information together, from the bank, to my pocket, to the corporate giants.

posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 09:36 PM
Would you rather they install eye-scanners everywhere like in the minority report? This would require everyone to register their eyescans etc in a huge database.
Atleast with rfid it can be slighty more anonymous (assuming they don't link the ID of the rfid tag to the person directly).
Like others have said above, this will most likely not be going away any time soon. If you're really that paranoid just carry a radio jammer around with you, don't carry a mobile phone, don't use credit cards, wear a mask, and move to tibet.
This may sound over the top but I think that RFID is the least of the things that people should be worried about if they are worried about bein tracked.

posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 12:27 AM
Then to make matters worse, don’t forget about the “Real-ID” act. This act was passed in the last year and stated that your driver’s license was to have your information, including your finger prints and possibly retina scan, in a machine readable format on your driver’s license by 2008. The “machine readable format” was to be left up to the Department of Homeland Security, and they stated back then that they were leaning in the direction of RFID technology.

Another trend that I noticed, which I truly do not care for is the amount of companies requesting your finger prints as part of your background check. When you give out your finger prints to a company, they are sent to the FBI, who digitizes them and adds them to their database. They don’t just get pitched out once you’re cleared of having any aliases.

What happened to the days when you only had to give out your finger prints if you WERE a convicted felon, or applying for some type of clearance? Now, as of 2001, to work in many fields, including getting your license in most medical professions, you have to surrender your finger prints.

When you consider that RFID is readable at a distance, basically anyone with a reader can tell your personal information simply by passing you on the street. That does not sound to cool in my opinion.

I have also come across some horror story scenarios, specifically one involving Wal-Mart (that company we all love to hate), where they want this done so they can treat customers according to who they are. For example, you pass a scanner upon entering the store, that info is passed to a computer which then based on your credit, past purchase history, and criminal record, sends a message to the greeter, who treats you accordingly, as do the rest of the store staff.

From what I have read Wal-Mart did a study and came up with the numbers that 80% of their profit was made up from 20% of their customers. The bottom 40% of their customer base is nothing but a liability to them, they are someone that can shoplift or slip, fall and sue Wal-Mart. So the idea is to treat the top 20% extra special, the middle group as normal, and the bottom wrung so bad that they will not go to their store anymore.

To me this is a bad trend, mass grouping people into social levels. Lets say it simply starts with those that have had a criminal background; they have no-where to get their basic necessities provided for, they are going to have to revert back to a criminal life style to survive. Making it virtually impossible for them to ever be rejuvenated and reconstituted into society. You might as well make the death sentience mandatory for lesser crimes, since these people will never be able to get out of the states pocket, or the criminal system.

Well it will not stop there, its going to go on to include your credit record, your employment history, buying history, medical history, you pretty much name it. Can you imagine not being allowed to enter a store because you have a medical record that shows you are prone to having accidents, and would be a liability if they allowed you to shop there? Well it is on the way.

This whole thing strikes me as being so un-American; I have to wonder if I still live in the same country I grew up in. Gone will be the days when someone could make a stupid mistake as a teenager, then go on to have a successful life, because with this system if you EVER screw up, you’ll LITERALLY be branded forever.

Did anyone but me notice that the UK passed their version of the Real-ID Act the same week as the US did? This is going to be the new world order. Literally a 1984 scenario, in which every person’s life is going to be an open book to the government. To them it’s the only way they will be able to keep tabs on the radicals that can cause damage like 911, and keep tabs on children in a society were crimes against them are on the upswing. In certain aspects the system makes sense, and that is why it’s going to be unstoppable. But I do recall reading somewhere that in the end times, most would accept getting the Mark of the beast, because it would “seem like wisdom, but would in fact be folly.” That you would not be able to buy or sell without it, It would involve your right hand (finger prints) and/or your forehead (retina scan), and if you refuse to receive it you would be branded a criminal and put to death.

Knowledge is power, and the governments and the corporations that run this world are after one thing, power. What more ultimate power could they have then to be able to track everyone and know their hobbies, habits, trends, and entire history and background at all times?

Many of us that worked in the technology field pre-2000 knew that there was not going to be a big end of the world scenario if the 2000 bug was not fixed. There were not enough systems that use the date as anything truly important. The world was not going to end if you got your bills on 01/01/2000 and they were all dated 01/01/1900. The date was not a factor in the power plants and so on, the only thing date is used for in such places is for billing the customer, not running the equipment. The only thing that I was slightly worried about at that time were items that used navigation systems, such as aircraft, since that is sometimes based on time traveled in a certain direction. If a system such as that suddenly thought it had traveled for 100 years in a direction, it would have acted unpredictably. Since then I have had other programmers tell me that the point of the 2000 scare was simply to get companies to bring their computer systems up to date. To make them so they could share information. Now to achive that, having the SAME DATE for all systems would be important. Now perhaps we are seeing what that big push was truly for, eh?

posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 01:07 AM

Originally posted by ZPE StarPilot
I suspect hospitals will be one of the first to use RFID to it's potential. Tracking patients, records, staff, and medicine.

You are correct, hospitals are already using this. One thing they use it for is tracking how much time an employee spends with each patient, so they can bill the time consuming patients more. Also they are considering using them in Pediatrics since they can put an RFID band on a child and know if it is being moved out of the Pediatrics area of the hospital. If you have ever worked in a hospital with a large pediatric department, you know that this happens at least two to three times a week, where a child is not where it’s supposed to be and they have to lock down the hospital till it’s found. They can also use this to keep track of what baby belongs to what mother to keep baby swapping in check.

The technology is not really in its infancy, it has been around since back when I used to do airline work back in the early 90’s. Back then however; the ID card had to be in contact with the reader to scan the chip, and the card was fairly thick. Now they are simply trying to find ways to make it even smaller, more easily hidden, and still keep a fairly long range to the scanners ability to pick it up.

We really did not complain back in the airport days, since it got old having to type in codes to go through doors that you had to go through about 100 times a day, especially when you were running to catch a flight that had landed and was sitting at the gate with no ramp crew…

So I guess convenience is another reason that this is going to be a hard thing to put a stop to. Our toll roads here offer no wait if you have an RFID’d vehicle (Sun Pass), so on so forth, many will accept this simply to make their lives more convenient

posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 05:47 AM
RFID is here to stay there are way too many companys who know of it's potential. Hell, I've been working with RIFD everyday for the past 2 years. Defcon5 is right it's not in its infancy.

Your personal information will no longer be personal, better get use to it.

Baaaaa baaaa.

posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 06:06 AM
I have came across some conspicous websites with a quick google search.

Websites of interest:

For images of an actual implant look at the following websites:

This is an interview with the person who has an implant:

[edit on 063131p://111 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]

posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 06:12 AM
Some Mother and her Husband tried to steal their baby from the Hospital here in Asheville a while back after Social Services had said she was unfit. They didn't make it very far however the RFID Tag On The Child Located them just down the block. Got another interesting piece of paper from the school a while back about School ID cards soon. It really is happening isn't it? The Digital Age Meets Old School Facism.

posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 06:13 AM
Also this brings in a neo-hacking age with RFID chips, basically someone could steal your ID if your chip is un-crypted.

Site of interest:

posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 06:41 AM
Well as an ex-programmer-techy guy I can see its applications. That does not mean that its uses do not frighten me. The possible applications of RFID are virtually limitless. If we had that technology back when I was an application developer then God help us all. In the interim I have found that the best thing to do is to avoid this if at all possible, if you wish to have any right to privacy. Then again, that is exactly what the final beast of revelations wants you to give up, your privacy, in exchange it will give you lots of worldly pleasures and conveniences till its too late…

Strictly the view of a guy that was Mr. Technology, then became, Mr. Religious.

Imagine if they can get this system in the works. Let’s say you bought a can of soda, and then you pitch it out the window of your car. That can ends up at a murder scene, all they have to do is find who bought that can and…. Knock….Knock, where were you on the night of the 8th?

What about the money thing already brought up?
Hay, we found this twenty dollar bill that was last registered to you at the scene of a drug bust on the lower west side this morning, it did not pass through any government authorized RFID readers in-between, why is that?

And so on and so on. Might as well just end every right you ever had, right here and now. Right to unfair search and seizure, right to trial before jury, right to privacy, you pretty much name it. They have been trying to find a way to do away with those pesky rights for a long time, now they have it.

Then let’s not even bring up what would happen if someone wanted to make you a scapegoat, or bring you down on purpose….
I guess you best not tick anyone off…Like ever.

I pitch a bottle of coke in the trash. Someone wants to screw with me; they simply loot my trash and make sure a piece of it ends up at a crime scene of their creation. The computers know who that bottle was sold to last, so guess whose name shows up when they find it?

The only way to end that sort of thing is to put RFID readers on each street, then implant the chip in me physically, and then they know where I have been. Logical flow of things here folks, from a computer developer that had to think out those kinds of loopholes.

Example: As I have already brought up, you can have an RFID put in your vehical here in FL, The Sun Pass. They can use this to track your movements, and it has already been used some places to show the location of someone being accused of a crime. You know what grand prizes you get for getting one?

1) $.25 less for each toll booth you pass.
2) Not having to stop for the toll roads, simply driving through.
3) Special lanes for those who have them.
4) Considering that the toll roads here are about as unconstitutional as anything I have every seen, they server only one purpose… Getting people used to being tracked

Again by way of example, the veteran’s expressway here was on the slate to be a free highway here in Tampa. They chose to build it 1 year in advance, and so it’s a toll road until they make up for the money they spent on it. It’s now 10 years later, and it’s still a toll road. Believe me it’s made that money up already, same as the Cross-town, but they are still toll roads. Why? Did I not pay my taxes? Is Tampa only EVER allowed to have one free expressway, even though the traffic here keeps getting worse and worse?

[edit on 10/17/2005 by defcon5]

posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 02:09 PM
This News Story isn't about RFID's , but it definitely fits into the theme of this thread.

Tracking cell phones for real-time traffic data

"Even though its anonymous, it's still ominous," said Daniel Solove, a privacy law professor at George Washington University and author of "The Digital Person." "It troubles me, because it does show this movement toward using a technology to track people."

[edit on 17-10-2005 by lost_shaman]

posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 01:34 AM
Once again Defcon5 is all to right....

The possible applications of RFID are virtually limitless. If we had that technology back when I was an application developer then God help us all

Hey Lost_shaman...nice article but it's nothing new (unfortunately)

posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 02:56 AM

Originally posted by rancid1
Once again Defcon5 is all to right....

The possible applications of RFID are virtually limitless. If we had that technology back when I was an application developer then God help us all

Well thank you again, but I would like to add that back in those days I would have never considered the long term ramifications of what that technology would be. Its easy when you’re a developer to want to automate everything, when you’re working on new technology it’s like painting a picture, you end up so focused on what your trying to do that you don’t really usually think of the 10 guys you might be automating right out of a job.

Same with this RFID chip. Having worked in hospitals, they are a perfect place for this kind of technology, any place that generates a lot of paper work and is detail oriented to the point of life and death, yet has to maintain an amount of security and privacy. The airport being another place I would have no issue with this technology, again detail oriented, lots of paper work, life or death stuff, security, privacy.

It’s when it starts to invade my personal life, tracking, keeping record, effecting my ability to get or retain a job, my ability to exist as a person in the eyes of the federal government, and I will not get a choice whether I wish to have it or not, that it becomes a bad thing… A REALLY bad thing…

As to the cell phone thing, that is really not an RFID application. I have personally seen them used to track a person by the authorities. The deal with the phone is that is only give a triangulated area of use that is determined by distance from 3 cell towers. I have seen them get this down to a few square miles, but its hardly pinpoint tracking. It takes a vast amount of people to cover those square miles. With the RFID, all you have to do is be in range of a scanner hidden in a doorway to track traffic flow, and they will know where you are within feet. Besides they can tell by the scanners you have passed the direction you are heading.

[edit on 10/18/2005 by defcon5]

posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 09:00 AM
Think military applications.
No more "lost" equipment, troops, you name it. EVERYTHING accounted for.

posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 10:39 AM
I was just using the Cell Phone Tracking Article to evidence the fact that the Government is willing and seeking new technologies to track people.

That is what we are talking about is tracking people , not preventing a shoplifter from walking out of Wal-Mart with a pack of Gillette Razor Blades.

I could see how it would be possible to integrate these technologies also , imagine if your Cell Phone is reading all the RFID signals around you and uploading that Data.

In the broader case of tracking technology it is not just about Cell Phones , or RFID's , or Security cameras with Facial Recognition , but it is about all of these systems being integrated.

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