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OP/ED: Biography Of Castro; The Lie.

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posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by billybob
they are the cuban people. they are not castro. the people want out because they have been battered by the states for decades.

I'd want out if I had to live like that also.

Tell me again, Why haven't they left already?

And where will they go when they finally do leave? Venezuela?

These are serious questions, btw.




posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 09:21 AM
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I'm from the UK. During the second world war we had quite severe rationing. It didn't end until 1952.


REPLY: The rationing was caused by the costs involved in fighting the war, not because of the US. The same US that had a major part of freeing Europe, by the way. It is we who spent much lives and treasure to rid Europe of oppression... the same oppression Cuba has experienced for decades.
And, no... if we removed the sanctions Castro wouldn't suddenly free his people, and Cuba wouldn't suddenly become a non-Communist country.


Truth is the hardships in Cuba are caused by an undeclared war with the greatest power on earth at the moment. The USA is not the answer it's the cause of the problem and the UN have critised US policy in Cuba for the last fifty years. Only UN security council membership has saved the US from more explicit condemnation.


REPLY: Being at war would imply we have soldiers there fighting against Castro (I think that would be front page news); sanctions do not imply war, undeclared or otherwise and, as mentioned, Cuba trades with the rest of the world, so our sanctions have little effect.
When will you understand that we don't care what the UN says or thinks, and you shouldn't either; it is the most corrupt organization in the world.


The Cuba you want is ruled by a US puppet and is subservient to the USA in every way.


The US wanted Britain, France, Germany, and the rest of Europe to be free from oppression.... the same we want for Cuba, and other countries; that's a bad thing? Do we have ruling puppets in those countries as well? Could you please mention their names, and give examples of laws we have helped enact (and the derimental effect they have caused)?


How long have you been living in the USA. Long enough to go through the school system I bet.


REPLY: You sound like you've gone to Rhodes, a decidedly Socialist/Marxist college, which is the leader in graduating new-world-order types.


You know that there are some Afro Carib descendents in the UK who think that the UK taxpayer should pay them compensation for slavery, even though we were the first great power to make it illegal, a decision which was the beginning of the end of slavery.


REPLY: We have the same problem here as far as compensation, and neither is warranted. Their freedom was paid by the monetary and financial costs of ending slavery; especially here.
The desire to end slavery was universal for the most part. Britain ended it in 1883, mostly through the efforts of Wilberforce. We ended it shortly thereafter, in 1863.


"... Truth is you don't want a free Cuba you want a US puppet government which would look after your interests at the expense of the majority of Cubans who actually live there. (Just like the Iraqi Expats) and you view history through that prism.


REPLY: See first reply, above. You take great freedoms to think you know where Muadib gets his perceptions from. He knows people there, and has first hand knowledge of conditions there, which makes your perceived knowledge moot, if not irrelevant.



posted on Dec, 25 2005 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
................
the people want out because they have been battered by the states for decades.
i don't think it's right to blame castro for the financial attack that has been perpetrated on the PEOPLE of his country.
.................


So you don't think it is castro's fault what he, castro, decides to use the food donations and other aid for, which he has recieved and keeps recieving and which are meant for the Cuban people, yet castro decides to send and sells this same aid to other countries to "spread la revolucion to the world" meanwhile the Cuban people starve?.....

That is not his fault according to you?.....

Is not castro's fault, and the communist regime which controls the country, that people are oppressed by that same regime which castro implemented on the island and which all Cubans are subjected to?.....

I find it ironic that some of the same members in these forums that keep proclaiming that the US and UK are dictatorships, yet they, alongside the people living in the US and UK have more rights, and more food, than the people in many other countries including Cuba...and these same people always try to defend what real dictators like castro have been doing to his people for decades, just so their illusions about the dictator are not shattered by the reality of who castro and his ilk really are....



Originally posted by billybob
you think castro goes hungry? no. it is the people who suffer when leaders 'punish' leaders.


People suffer when "dictators" oppress people, like castro is doing, and has been doing in Cuba.



Originally posted by billybob
i think castro has iron cohones, and i admire that. i think he believes he's doing the right thing. i don't know enough about the revolution to say whether i like him or not.


yeah...he has so much cojones that he took the weapons from most Cubans....

He has so much cojones that there are spies in each neighboorhood in Cuba whose sole purpose is to spy on their neighboors and report anything that is said against castro, or any attempts to form meetings to discuss the situation in Cuba or how to improve the country....

He has so much cojones that he has to imprison every Cuban journalist or intellectual that has a mind of his/her own and try to speak out against the communist regime.....

He has so much cojones that he punishes any Cuban who speaks out against him, taking away their right to buy food legally, their right to have any job which all of them are government jobs..and even in many cases taking their freedom away by imprisioning them....

You think that's having cojones?......



Originally posted by billybob
che guevara liked him. i'm reading his biography, right now. interesting dude.


Che Guevara was another murdering bastard.....

You have to remember that those who are conquered do not always have the means to write history and the oppressors of countries are the ones who rewrite history and change it so that they are seen as heroes when in fact they are just murderers with not one inch of humanity....

Thousands of people were executed in "el paredon" in Cuba by Che in front of their families including their children.... He would also go from house to house of those who would speak out against "la revolucion" and he would murder the men and make sure the families were watching.

A reminder to the people that anyone who was against "la revolucion" would recieve the same courtesy from castro's executioner, Che....

The same thing that US soldiers did to Native Americans a century ago is the same thing that Che, castro and the rest of their ilk have been doing against any and every Cuban that would even question "la revolucion".

Many of castro's soldiers realized a bit too late what castro and che were really like and revolted against them.

You know that there is a large group of people who are also trying to claim that "the holocaust" never happened?... The same thing has been done to Cuba's history since "la revolucion"....and people who know no better believe the lies being given by the dictator and his ilk and keep pronouncing castro, Che and the rest of the communist regime as "humanitarian and fighters for the people".......

If they were fighters for the people why have the people been oppressed in Cuba since "la revolucion"?....... Oh, but don't believe what those who have lived and escaped the dictatorship say right?.... Believe those who have been oppressing the Cuban people for decades and fall for their lies and deceptions of making the world believe they are "humanitarians and leaders of the people"...



[edit on 25-12-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 25 2005 @ 11:14 PM
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i just don't live in a black and white world, like some people.
like typical hegelians, you try and polarise every argument to an extreme, to preach hatred and dissent.

have fun with that.



posted on Dec, 26 2005 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by billybob
i just don't live in a black and white world, like some people.
like typical hegelians, you try and polarise every argument to an extreme, to preach hatred and dissent.

have fun with that.


No, you live in a world of fantasy, where you rather believe a dictator and those who have oppressed and murdered people, rather than believe those who have seen and know the truth about Che, castro and the rest of the 'revolucionarios"....

Meanwhile you and other people like you enjoy and prefer to live in ignorance defending dictators, while living in your fantasy world you want to idealize and admire who you think was a man who fought for the people...





Am I the one preaching hatred and dissent? or am i showing the truth as to who have been the ones preaching hatred and dissent and bringing oppression to people?...

Che formented dissent and revolution at all cost in other countries, such as Argentina, Bolivia, the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Haiti, Panama and the African Congo, all which failed.

Che couldn't get not even one Bolivian peasant to join his revolution. All of the 22 Bolivians that Che was able to convince to hide in the mountains with him to spread la "revolucion" were all well educated middle class Bolivian citizens. So much for a "revolucion" for the working people huh?...

Let's see some of Che's quotes and find out about hatred and dissent and who is trying to preach such hatred and dissent to the world, shall we?


"To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary. These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution!



The real story of Ernesto Guevara's place in history, and the deaths for which he was responsible, is told by Cuban journalist Luis Ortega, who knew Guevara personally, in his book Yo Soy El Che, by Daniel James in Che Guevara: A Biography and by Armando M. Lago, author of the soon to be released Cuba: The Human Cost of Social Revolutions.

Lago lists by name fourteen people personally murdered by Guevara while fighting in the Sierra Madre as a part of Fidel Castro's 1956-57 guerilla struggles to seize power in Cuba. Once in power, Guevara became one of the central figures of Castro's dictatorship with 10 confirmed ordered executions in Santa Clara in 1959 and another 156 at La Cabana Fortress Prison. He was also responsible for several thousand more during the first years of the revolution. Guevara was also responsible for those killed in the guerrilla uprisings he sponsored in Latin America, and in which he participated after he had left Cuba. No one knows how many people Guevara personally killed, ordered killed, or who died as a result of his actions. Lago believes the number for Cuba alone is 4,000.

It is said that Guevara was proud of shooting his enemies in the back of the head. He was also vocal in his hatred, and candid in his use of hate as a driving force. "Hatred is an element in the struggle," he said, "unbending hatred for the enemy which pushes a human being beyond his natural limitations…." "A people without hate cannot triumph against the adversary." During the Cuban missile crisis Guevara pushed for war, since a nuclear holocaust, he believed, would purge the world of evil and make way for the rise of a new and better order.


Excerpted from.
www.claremont.org...

Let's also see who inspired Che.


I have sworn before a picture of our old, much lamented comrade Stalin [who had died in March] that I will not rest until I see these capitalist octopuses annihilated


From a letter that Che wrote to his aunt in San Jose.
Excerpted from.
rsmforum.proboards23.com...

Perhaps you also think that Stalin was another "revolutionary hero" huh?....

If telling the truth for you means "to spread hatred and dissent" and what Che is known for doing and saying is not hatred and dissent, i prefer living in the "black and white world" you accuse me of living in, than in your fantasy world where you believe murderers....

[edit on 26-12-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
i just don't live in a black and white world, like some people.
like typical hegelians, you try and polarise every argument to an extreme, to preach hatred and dissent.

have fun with that.


You just described castro to a "T". Thanks!!

Also, I'm still waithing for that news story of someone dying trying to get to Cuba in a rowboat.... or a pickup truck.

Hatred is what castro shows to his people. Dissent is what many people there show against Castro.



posted on Jan, 4 2006 @ 04:59 PM
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Muaddib, I'm not writing my posts to bash you, and I never said anything about you hijacking the thread that you started.

I was just letting you know that people tend not to take it well when everything expressed to them is done so as if yelled in hatred.

I don't hate you, and I feel for the people in Cuba. I disagree with how communism has been executed because it obviously has not worked, but feel that the communistic ideal is not the bad thing, it's the people who are using it to work their evils.

You just took my post way too far, I'm sorry, please, calm down.

I know many Cuban people, and I have heard about some of the horrible things from people other than you - I was just hoping to see you reply in a calm, intelligent way, so I could read through your posts and through the topic without feeling like I'm being blamed and berated.

I guess that I am sorry for both of us.



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 02:34 PM
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.... it's nice to see those who can discuss thoughts or mis-quotes without yelling. Thanks.

I will say, however, that for the same reason you mention, and others, that communism can never work, just as socialism can never work. Any kind of "top-down" management, with those in charge deciding for you how your life should be, or what you can own, or what job you will do, is the excat opposite of freedom and liberty. It's just noto a good idea,

People from any country or social status or ethnic background always strive for freedom...... it's a part of human nature. Unfortunately, it's those in power that corrupt any system, and also those who take advantage of the corruption. IE: Marxist Social programs for instance.



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 06:45 PM
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So.... Just one question. I was just wondering whether you believe that the embargo of cuba should be maintained?

oh and also.. wow is it really true that castro uses agents to beat up people if they protest? I never knew about this. Your article is so enlightening. I was so naive about this kind of thing before. Thanks.

[edit on 23-10-2006 by chrisxpark]



posted on Jun, 23 2007 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by chrisxpark
So.... Just one question. I was just wondering whether you believe that the embargo of cuba should be maintained?

oh and also.. wow is it really true that castro uses agents to beat up people if they protest? I never knew about this. Your article is so enlightening. I was so naive about this kind of thing before. Thanks.


I apologize if it took me this long to respond to this, i didn't see it before and was about to revive this thread in light of Moore's new film about "the wonderful Cuban healthcare system."

Anyways whether the embargo in Cuba is maintained or not castro and the Cuban regime will continue to keep the Cuban people in missery because that's one of the ways they can have control in the island.

As to your second question, yes, castro does uses, and has used thugs to beat protesters and uses other forms of harassment to keep people in check, including puting people in jail for 28 years for making protests against the Cuban regime.

There are many movies and books about the real situation that has been happening in Cuba, coming from the experiences of Cubans who have left the island and found freedom of speech outside the repressive regime of Cuba, since castro came to power and through them you will see the realities of the Cuban system.

Here is the site of a Cuban writer who now lives in Australia and in that site he gives some examples of how life changed in Cuba after castro's revolution.

luismgarcia.blogspot.com...

There are several films, most of them in spanish, about the real Cuba and that which most westerners don't know about the dictatorship which has afflicted the island since castro took power.

One of the newest films, which is in english, and shows the real Cuba is called "The Lost City", with Andy Garcia, a Cuban-American born in Cuba who directed the movie and plays as Fico Fellove.

This movie is from 2005, and shows a very good portrayal of Cuba during the brink of castro's revolution.

Another recent movie is "Before Night Falls", the film is about a Cuban gay writer, Reinaldo Arenas, and it shows in overall the change that the island and the people went through from the start of the revolution, to the 1980s.

Those two movies show the real Cuba, and not the idolized Cuban revolution which the left and some "foreigners" claim about.

If you want to see a couple of movies which show you the real Cuba, I'll recommend watching those two.

---edited or error---

[edit on 23-6-2007 by Muaddib]



posted on Jun, 23 2007 @ 02:08 PM
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Anyways, I wanted to bump this old post in light of the new "Moore docu-lie-drama" about the so wonderful healthcare system in Cuba.

As i said in another post, i do wonder if this latest stunt by Moore is an attempt at dismissing what happened in January 2006 to the Czecholslovakian model Helena Houdova, who dared to go to Cuba and take pictures of the real Cuba which ended in her being detained for 11 hours, with her psychologist Czech friend, her film was confiscated, except a digital camera memory stick which she managed to hide and take out of Cuba, and she had to sign a piece of paper where she would state she was not going to participate in any "anti-revolutionary' events.....


[edit on 23-6-2007 by Muaddib]




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