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OP/ED: Biography Of Castro; The Lie.

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posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 05:06 AM
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Yeh, that's right everyone else is wrong and you are right Muaddib. Below are worldwide recognised facts and not selected snippets from the myriads of anti-Castro/Cuba sites on the internet.

The truth that the rest of the world understands but which you fail abysmally to grasp is that if the US hadn't interfered and tried to make Cuba a de facto US state then Castro and the Cuban socialist model would never have lasted as long as it did. Through invasion, occupation (Guantanamo), assasination attempts, financing dissidents and subversives, and placing unilateral trade embargoes on Cuba the US has effectively been in a state of war with Cuba. The Cubans have reacted in a manner one would expect if a nation were continually threatened and that continual state of preparedness is the single most important reason why Castro is still in power.

It is the US's most obvious example of imperial ambition.

You can pull "figures" and "facts" from anti-Castro sites all day. The truth is that Cuba has had bloody good reason to be defensive. The anti Castro propaganda is so obvious when real historical facts are known and so the world just watches and accepts this is just a peculiar US obsession to destroy Castro and install another puppet government there.

This is about power and greed and the manipulation of the ignorant and vulnerable masses. However the US doesn't write the airbrushed history books for the rest of the world.

Over 1 million dissidents in Cuba ?? I have no way of disproving that but equally you have no way of proving it. It's a figure pulled from the air to try and show that your argument has support in Cuba. The "liberating" citizens argument is always a good one, just look at Iraq and elsewhere.

Truth is Castro would be overwhelmingly elected by Cubans if an election happenned there today. He is popular with the vast majority of Cubans who live there because he has stood up against the USA and defended it's independent integrity.

Now you mention a few supposed "atrocities" committed by Castros Cuba.

Let me tell you something straight. IT IS NOTHING IN COMPARISON TO WHAT THE USA IS DOING RIGHT NOW! AND CONSIDERING THE NEAR STATE OF WAR WITH A BELIGERENT SUPERPOWER THAT THEY HAVE HAD TO OPPERATE IN IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE IF NOT CONDONABLE.


1898
The U.S. joins Cuba's with Spain after the U.S. battleship Maine is blown up in Havana harbor. Spain loses.

1898-1902
A U.S. military government controls Cuba.

1901
Cuba adopts a constitution allowing the U.S. to intervene in Cuban affairs and prohibiting Cuba from entering treaties or financial relationships with other countries.

1903
The U.S. receives a permanent lease on Guantanamo Bay and begins to build a large naval base there.

1906
U.S. troops return to Cuba, and a government headed by an American rules Cuba until 1909.

1933
Military strongman Fulgencio Batista leads a coup overthrowing the liberal government of Gerardo Machado. His dictatorship is backed by the U.S.

1956

Castro, "Che" Guevara, and a band of revolutionaries leave Mexico for Cuba to launch guerrilla war against Batista.

1958

The U.S. withdraws military aid to Batista.

1959

Castro leads a guerrilla army into Havana, forcing Batista to flee.

1961

Castro declares Cuba Communist. Cuban exiles backed by the CIA invade Cuba at the Bay of Pigs but are defeated by Castro's army.

1962

U.S. begins a trade embargo. Cuban Missile Crisis begins when President Kennedy announces there are Soviet missiles in Cuba.

1963

The embargo is tightened; most travel to Cuba by U.S. citizens is banned.

1976

Terrorists attack a Cuban airliner renewing tensions between Cuba and the U.S. Former CIA employee Louis Posada Carriles is tried for the crime.

1991

The Soviet Union dissolves. Cuba loses its most important source of aid, and its economy suffers greatly. U.N. Commission on Human Rights finds no evidence of human rights abuses in Cuba.

1992

Congress tightens U.S. embargo by prohibiting transactions between U.S. foreign subsidiaries and Cuba. United Nations condemns U.S. embargo of Cuba.

1993

Cuban reforms allow some workers to start private businesses. Cuba holds first popular election since the revolution. Elections consist of one candidate per position with voters choosing to elect or reject the candidate.

1996

Cuba shoots down two Anti-Castro civilian aircraft. Congress passes the Helms-Burton Act, granting U.S. citizens the right to sue foreign investors profiting from expropriated U.S. assets.

1998

Pope John Paul II visits Cuba, an historic event because Castro outlawed religious freedom in the 1960s. The pope attacks the U.S. embargo and calls on Castro to loosen political restrictions and embrace pluralism.

October 2000

U.S. House approves sale of food and medicines to Cuba.

November 2001

U.S. exports food to Cuba for the first time in more than 40 years after Cuba requests help in wake of Hurricane Michelle.

January 2002

Prisoners taken during U.S.-led action in Afghanistan are flown to Guantanamo for interrogation as al-Qaida suspects.

May 2002

State Department official John Bolton accuses Cuba of trying to develop biological weapons, adding the country to Washington's list of "axis of evil" countries.

May 2002

Jimmy Carter makes goodwill visit that includes tour of scientific centers, in response to U.S. allegations about biological weapons. Carter is first former or serving U.S. president to visit Cuba since 1959.

October 2003

President George Bush announces fresh measures designed to hasten the end of communist rule in Cuba, including tightening a travel embargo, cracking down on illegal cash transfers, and a propaganda campaign aimed at Cuba.


havanajournal.com...


PS I don't blame expat Cubans from trying to stir up trouble. Remember that the expat Iraqis did very well out of Iraqs invasion. I'm sure there are plenty of "friendly" Cubans just waiting for the opportunity to snatch power and rake in the cash.




posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 05:23 AM
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Truth is Castro would be overwhelmingly elected by Cubans if an election happenned there today. He is popular with the vast majority of Cubans who live there because he has stood up against the USA and defended it's independent integrity."

With all due respect, you have your facts wrong. You dont have relatives in Cuba starving to death like i do. You do not speak to people in Cuba begging for clothes and personal items to be sent to them because there arent any.
You havent had to whisper your true feelings at home. You havent had a member of your family "Hang" because he spoke up. I have.
You dont have ration cards. Two potatoes, 1 lb of rice, and 1 lb of pork is supposed to feed you for 2 weeks.
No transportation. No food. Your property stolen by the government.


Sure, there is a minority who dont know any better- they dont know HOW IT USED TO BE, the lowest of the low, who might vote for him. Anyone with an ounce of brains wouldnt and wont.
Vote for Castro? They dont have any choice in the matter. Dictators do not get votes.

Commitees everywhere that "snitch" you out...it could be your own brother... Oh, please...You really dont know how things are there. Put away your college books and listen to us. We KNOW.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 05:26 AM
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So now all the links i have given and everything I have said is only propaganda from anti-castro sites huh?....

So what do you say about DG John?.... She is also telling lies when she agrees with what I have to say? She was born in Cuba, and although she left at an early age she knows better than you the lies people like yourself have been fed....

So tell us John, who is paying you to defend "la revolucion"?.....

If you claim we are being paid to say these things, you must be getting paid also to defend castro...

It could always be that, as i was saying, you prefer to submerge yourself in ignorance to the events that have taken, and continue to take place in Cuba so your dellusions of castro being a humanitarian don't die....

BTW, you still try to dodge my questions about where your "enlightening knowledge" comes from.....

Were you born in Cuba?...

Have you lived under the communist dictatorship of castro?...

Are you a psychic who can see through the "supposed lies" you are claiming most Cubans have been telling the world?...along with several human right groups, a few which are from other countries including the UN which tell a different story from your propaganda, which seems to come straight from castro's mouth.....



[edit on 22-12-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by John bull 1
..........................
Over 1 million dissidents in Cuba ?? I have no way of disproving that but equally you have no way of proving it. It's a figure pulled from the air to try and show that your argument has support in Cuba. The "liberating" citizens argument is always a good one, just look at Iraq and elsewhere.


Why don't you stop and actually read what i posted instead of puting words that i have not said?....

First of all, i was talking about the Cubans living in the US, which do number over 1.5 million... I gave a link to a site which states that there are 39+Million hispanics in the US 4% whom are Cuban.... Use your college education for something valualbe and do the math yourself....you will see that it shows that there are 1.5+ million Cubans in the US.

Second, there are more than 1 million Cubans still living in the country that hate castro, but have to hide their feelings because they will be punished, unlike you, for speaking against castro and his regime....



Originally posted by John bull 1
Truth is Castro would be overwhelmingly elected by Cubans if an election happenned there today. He is popular with the vast majority of Cubans who live there because he has stood up against the USA and defended it's independent integrity.


Riiight....and you know this how?.....

you have no idea of what control castro and his "revolutionary buddies" have control over the Cuban population...

People are literally herded to go listen to castro's speeches, Children are taken from schools and put in school buses, one of the few times when school buses are used, to take them to listen to castro...

People are ordered to leave their jobs in the immediate areas, if not they will be written down and would lose their job and be harrassed if they do not participate in the speech and show support...

You think the Cuban people buy all those small Cuban flags and other paraphernalia when people are starving in Cuba......

You are out of your mind and blinded trying to defend "la revolucion" along with some other people....



Originally posted by John bull 1
Now you mention a few supposed "atrocities" committed by Castros Cuba.


....a few atrocities?.......


Originally posted by John bull 1
Let me tell you something straight. IT IS NOTHING IN COMPARISON TO WHAT THE USA IS DOING RIGHT NOW! AND CONSIDERING THE NEAR STATE OF WAR WITH A BELIGERENT SUPERPOWER THAT THEY HAVE HAD TO OPPERATE IN IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE IF NOT CONDONABLE.




Originally posted by John bull 1
PS I don't blame expat Cubans from trying to stir up trouble. Remember that the expat Iraqis did very well out of Iraqs invasion. I'm sure there are plenty
of "friendly" Cubans just waiting for the opportunity to snatch power and rake in the cash.


You don't know what you are talking about John.... and instead of trying to find the truth you still willingly, and blindly want to believe that castro had no choice and he must be a humanitarian......


[edit on 22-12-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 05:57 AM
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Your sentiments do not surprise me. They are exactly the same as those expressed by the expat Iraqis.

I'm from the UK. During the second world war we had quite severe rationing. It didn't end until 1952 (many forget that). Truth is the hardships in Cuba are caused by an undeclared war with the greatest power on earth at the moment. The USA is not the answer it's the cause of the problem and the UN have critised US policy in Cuba for the last fifty years. Only UN security council membership has saved the US from more explicit condemnation.

Supporters of Castro are being elected across South and Central America. This is a reaction to US interference over the last century. The USA is increasingly isolated. It is the "Billy No Mates" of the world.

As for your friends and family in Cuba. I'm sorry that they suffer but to my mind supporting the foreign policy of the US which is directly responsible for the situation is a treacherous betrayal of Cuban independence. The Cuba you want is ruled by a US puppet and is subservient to the USA in every way.

How long have you been living in the USA. Long enough to go through the school system I bet. Long enough to assimulate yourself into an ethnic minority with a chip on your shoulder. I guess it's what helps you define yourself.

You know that there are some Afro Carib descendents in the UK who think that the UK taxpayer should pay them compensation for slavery, even though we were the first great power to make it illegal, a decision which was the beginning of the end of slavery.

Truth is everyone's looking for a way out. Everyone wants a quick buck.

And you're no different. Truth is you don't want a free Cuba you want a US puppet government which would look after your interests at the expense of the majority of Cubans who actually live there. (Just like the Iraqi Expats) and you view history through that prism.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 06:05 AM
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Yeah, it's because of the EVIL Communist Lovers that Bronx Warmly Receives Venezuelan Heating Oil for HALF THE PRICE!



Citgo Petroleum Corp., which is controlled by the Venezuelan government, signed a deal with three Bronx housing nonprofits to sell 5 million gallons of heating oil at 45 percent below the market rate, an estimated savings of $4 million. The discounted oil will heat 75 Bronx apartment buildings, housing 8,000 low-income working poor and elderly tenant.

How DARES HE!

That Commie Bastard!



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 06:15 AM
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John bull 1, I have two questions for you: if Cuba is so wonderful , why is it that Cubans cannot leave the island whenever they want to?

If the USA is so horrible, why do we have such an immigration problem caused by too many people wanting to come here?

PS: Whoops - for a second there thought I was mistakenly posting in the Venezuela thread.

Nope, just a troll in the hole. Never mind.

[edit on 22-12-2005 by jsobecky]



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
If the USA is so horrible, why do we have such an immigration problem caused by too many people wanting to come here?

Could it be that Everybody wants a Taste of the "American Lifestyle" that the Entire World is Paying the Price for?

Everybody wants a Piece of the America Pie.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 06:39 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Yeah, it's because of the EVIL Communist Lovers that Bronx Warmly Receives Venezuelan Heating Oil for HALF THE PRICE!



Citgo Petroleum Corp., which is controlled by the Venezuelan government, signed a deal with three Bronx housing nonprofits to sell 5 million gallons of heating oil at 45 percent below the market rate, an estimated savings of $4 million. The discounted oil will heat 75 Bronx apartment buildings, housing 8,000 low-income working poor and elderly tenant.

How DARES HE!

That Commie Bastard!


This post is about what is happening in Cuba, what does that which you post have anything to do with what is happening in Cuba?



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
This post is about what is happening in Cuba, what does that which you post have anything to do with what is happening in Cuba?

Chavez is a Big Supporter of Castro - and Vice Versa.

Even if Venezuela gives Oil to USA half the price, they are still "Evil Communists" - and that is what they will ALWAYS be in their eyes.

US propaganda machine has done that.

USA = GOOD.

EVERYBODY ELSE THAT DOES NOT AGREE = EVIL.



Same thing with Castro.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by John bull 1
Your sentiments do not surprise me. They are exactly the same as those expressed by the expat Iraqis.


John....you have no idea what you are talking about.... and you have been already shown that DG who is a Cuban and is a liberal agrees with what I am saying.....


Originally posted by John bull 1
I'm from the UK. During the second world war we had quite severe rationing. It didn't end until 1952 (many forget that). Truth is the hardships in Cuba are caused by an undeclared war with the greatest power on earth at the moment.


no John....the hardships in Cuba are happening because fidel castro.... I gave several links which show what happens to humanitarian food being sent to Cuba.... castro sells it or sends it to other countries so they can "expand la revolucion" and to make the world believe that castro is a humanitarian.....while the people in Cuba starve and suffer the consequences because of castro's decisions....



Originally posted by John bull 1
The USA is not the answer it's the cause of the problem and the UN have critised US policy in Cuba for the last fifty years. Only UN security council membership has saved the US from more explicit condemnation.


WTH..... you are the only one in here trying to divert the topic and bash and blame the US....where did i say anything about the US coming to rescue Cuba?....

Once again John....this post is to show the truth about what has been happening and keep happening in Cuba.....


Originally posted by John bull 1
Supporters of Castro are being elected across South and Central America. This is a reaction to US interference over the last century. The USA is increasingly isolated. It is the "Billy No Mates" of the world.


And any of that gives an excuse as to what happens in Cuba?.....



Originally posted by John bull 1
As for your friends and family in Cuba. I'm sorry that they suffer but to my mind supporting the foreign policy of the US which is directly responsible for the situation is a treacherous betrayal of Cuban independence.


Your mind is full of propaganda from a man that is starving his people, oppressing them, torturing them, harrassing them meanwhile he tries to show to the rest of the world that he is a humanitarian by sending troops, doctors, food and other help which Cubans need but he sends for "la revolucion" to be spread into other countries.....


Originally posted by John bull 1
The Cuba you want is ruled by a US puppet and is subservient to the USA in every way.


AGAIN......where in the world did i say that we must have the US liberate Cuba?.....

If there is an internal ousting of castro and no US backed politician takes charge, most Cubans would be happy....

If the UN decides to do something and listen to what the majority of Cubans say, instead of believing the lies that people like yourself keep wanting to believe and they liberate Cuba and no US backed politician takes power....most Cubans would rejoice and be happy....

Stay on topic and don't try to divert the purpose of this post please.....


Originally posted by John bull 1
How long have you been living in the USA. Long enough to go through the school system I bet. Long enough to assimulate yourself into an ethnic minority with a chip on your shoulder. I guess it's what helps you define yourself.


....i lived 10 years in Spain and 15 in the US after leaving Cuba when I was 8 years old.... How in the world does that give credence to your claim and debunks anything that DG, the links I provided and I have been saying?.....


Originally posted by John bull 1
You know that there are some Afro Carib descendents in the UK who think that the UK taxpayer should pay them compensation for slavery, even though we were the first great power to make it illegal, a decision which was the beginning of the end of slavery.


......WTH does that have to do with what is happening in Cuba?............


Originally posted by John bull 1
Truth is everyone's looking for a way out. Everyone wants a quick buck.

And you're no different. Truth is you don't want a free Cuba you want a US puppet government which would look after your interests at the expense of the majority of Cubans who actually live there. (Just like the Iraqi Expats) and you view history through that prism.


WHERE IN THE WORLD DID I SAY THAT I WANT THE US TO TAKE CHARGE OF CUBA?..............

JOHN, you don't know what the heck you are talking about, you are sitting in your chair in the UK, and have never seen what trully happens in Cuba....

Last time I was able to visit Cuba was in 2001...and things are worse, even when Clinton was in office and was sending tons of food and other aid to Cuba, which has always mysteriously dissapeared....the Cuban people never saw/see that food....along with the food and aid other organizations send.....

It is really sad seeing that people like yourself continue wanting to believe the propaganda that castro shoves into your brain with lies, trying to make the world believe he is a humanitarian....and you don't want to listen what Cubans have been saying for years about the dictatorship in Cuba....



[edit on 22-12-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Chavez is a Big Supporter of Castro - and Vice Versa.

Even if Venezuela gives Oil to USA half the price, they are still "Evil Communists" - and that is what they will ALWAYS be in their eyes.

US propaganda machine has done that.

USA = GOOD.

EVERYBODY ELSE THAT DOES NOT AGREE = EVIL.



Same thing with Castro.



What does that have to do with what has been happening in Cuba?.....

Is this post about Venezuela?......

When did this post turn from what happens in Cuba because of fidel castro and only because of fidel castro turned into another post bashing the US and giving hurrahs to Chavez?.....



Stay on topic please....



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 09:00 AM
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If you want to find out what Cuba would be like if Fidel Castro was not in charge then look at Haiti. They have had brutal right wing American backed dictators in the last century.

soc.hfac.uh.edu...

Are they better off ??

NO!

And you tell me I don't know what I'm talking about ?

If it doesn't fit in with what you want to believe then you ignore it !

Cuba's deprevation is caused by US antipathy. But atleast the people of Cuba have retained some degree of independence.

Why not look and compare ? Check out any South and Central American country that has had American backed dictators (and there are quite a few to look at). Are they better off now ?

NO !

The US didn't/ doesn't agree with Castro's political ideology and they have used every means (except declaring outright war) to bring the regime down.

And the people suffer but you blame Cubans ???????

You're living in a dreamworld. You think all of Cubas problems would be solved if only Castro was not in charge. If history was different it would all be OK ??

You're wrong. If history were different Cuba would have had a US backed dictator like Papa Doc or would have been annexed by the USA.

That wouldn't be better for the Cuban people.

You're only fooling yourself.

There are probably just as many expat Haitians living in the US as Cubans and they've had the Government the USA wanted and which made the rest of the world sick to the stomach.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
Nice job, Muaddib. Canada has always sympathized with Castros cause and i am glad that you pointed out the real deal.

Again, this was a program produced in the US, by a US network. It was run on a Canadian sattelite channel by A&E and is 9 years old.

I really think that Canada should be taken out of the title since Muaddib has already said that he was mistaken and didn't realize that. Leaving Canada in the title is deceptive even though it's an OP/ED.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 12:12 PM
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From Soulja:

"... Such Commie Paranoia - and I thought Cold War was Over.

FrontPageMagazine? NoCastro.com?

Yeah Man - those are the sources for some serious anti-commie propaganda.


REPLY: Yeah...... Cuba is such a paradise.. yet I have yet to see the news indicating where people have died at sea, in rafts, trying to GET TO Cuba. (you could be the first 8^)

Frontpage magazine? ... simply one of the most widely read, and centrist sites on the web. Why do people so often shoot the messenger because of the message?

Cuba... an island, and yet there's a shortage of fish; where librarians have been jailed for having the "wrong" books on the shelves; where people who wish to sell home-made cookies alongside a dirt path (on the off-chance a passerby might buy a couple) are jailed, with no legal recourse.

Communisim has only killed 100 MILLION peole in the past century... let's give another go..... NOT!

Castro has had 50 years to change the way the government operates, but will never do so. The embargo against Cuba means nothing, as they trade with the rest of the world, and they do. Our embargo has little effect on the people there.... and yet the people have nothing.

You believe that a vote there would not be corrupt? HA HA HA HA HA The only people that would vote for him are those who, like here in America, feed off of the government teat, getting much for doing so little.

You are a bitter and woefully mis-informed individual; no American and no Patriot, and you can't blame the current administration for that.

Dgtempe: we have had our differences, and may in the future, but you are quite correct in what you say. Unfortunately, there are too many college professors who still teach Marxism and Communism as being superior, or mis-understood.
(edited to correct spelling)

[edit on 22-12-2005 by zappafan1]



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 12:33 PM
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Chavez is a Big Supporter of Castro - and Vice Versa.

".... Even if Venezuela gives Oil to USA half the price, they are still "Evil Communists" - and that is what they will ALWAYS be in their eyes."

USA = GOOD.
EVERYBODY ELSE THAT DOES NOT AGREE = EVIL.


REPLY: So it is YOU who have fallen victim to the propaganda of Chavez. It doesn't matter what he does for New York (did they even accept the oil?); it is what he does for his own people that matters most.... and that remains to be seen.

".... USA = GOOD.
EVERYBODY ELSE THAT DOES NOT AGREE = EVIL.'

REPLY: USA GOOD... True.
Everyone else who does not, by law, allow their people liberty and freedom =EVIL. True



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by DuzeyAgain, this was a program produced in the US, by a US network. It was run on a Canadian sattelite channel by A&E and is 9 years old.

I really think that Canada should be taken out of the title since Muaddib has already said that he was mistaken and didn't realize that. Leaving Canada in the title is deceptive even though it's an OP/ED.



I agree that Canada should be taken out of the title for this thread. It is deceptive and incorrect. As an Op/Ed piece, though, this is good journalism and great for debate.




posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 07:06 PM
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I'd be a lot happier to read through, absorb, and agree with you, Muaddib, if you had better posting habits.

We get it. It's really, really not good there. However, the facts should speak for themselves.

When you post 3 times in a row, replying all three times to the same person, when nothing has changed in the thread in the intervening time, and in all of the posts, repeatedly call people down and use rhetoric that is padded with quotes and rarely well supported, people have a tendency not to enjoy reading your posts.

If you write with a slant, which is allowed as it's an OP/Ed piece, but with the slant just being how you present information as opposed to calling down every single group you can that you imagine does not agree with you, and assuming things that you probably do not know for sure, you can achieve a very high level of success, and I bet I would support you right now.

Instead, I (while not wholly agreeing with) JohnBull1, am feeling more sympathy towards him and his general side, because I can actually stand to read everything he's written. I read your entire first post, and feel that you could have done 90% of it by simply providing links and the first 5-6 paragraphs, as opposed to quoting several long stories.

Do not get me wrong, as I said I do not fully agree with JohnBull1. I definitely believe you - you have family in Cuba, you have been there, and I have not. I don't know for sure, and I do not imagine that Castro is really a good leader, or that life is in any way easy for Cubans.

However, I don't believe that all the anti-Communism sentiment is needed. The anti-American sentiment isn't needed. The anti-this and anti-that sentiments and statements - all really uneeded. The issue is whether or not Castro is, at the bottom line, hurting his people intentionally, hurting them unintentionally, or not hurting them at all. That involves America and Communism, but it is really the direct fault of neither.



posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 02:46 AM
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the reason i try and shame people for vacationing in cuba, is that they are taking advantage of extremely poor people. the young girls bending over backwards for middle-aged losers really saddens me.

i guess, though, that tourism is pumping dough into the country. that's good. they need dough.

they are the cuban people. they are not castro. the people want out because they have been battered by the states for decades.
i don't think it's right to blame castro for the financial attack that has been perpetrated on the PEOPLE of his country.
you think castro goes hungry? no. it is the people who suffer when leaders 'punish' leaders.
i think castro has iron cohones, and i admire that. i think he believes he's doing the right thing. i don't know enough about the revolution to say whether i like him or not.
che guevara liked him. i'm reading his biography, right now. interesting dude.



posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 05:20 AM
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Originally posted by Viendin
I'd be a lot happier to read through, absorb, and agree with you, Muaddib, if you had better posting habits.


...so now i am the one hijacking the thread?......my own thread?....


Originally posted by Viendin
We get it. It's really, really not good there. However, the facts should speak for themselves.


Well, there are some people that are trying to change the facts, because they don't like the idea of destroying the image of their idols, and instead want to proclaim DG, the links I provided and i are all just being paid to say these things.... and you don't want us to respond to those accusations or to set the facts straight?


Originally posted by Viendin
When you post 3 times in a row, replying all three times to the same person, when nothing has changed in the thread in the intervening time, and in all of the posts, repeatedly call people down and use rhetoric that is padded with quotes and rarely well supported, people have a tendency not to enjoy reading your posts.


So, I am supposed not to respond to someone who is trying to hijack the thread, someone that is trying to claim DG and I must be getting paid to say all these things, or that somehow we must have imagined everything we know, because he knows better even thou he has never set foot in Cuba?....

Second of all, if you are going to proclaim that my posts are rarely well supported, you better prove it. I think most old members around here know that I always back up what I say, whether they agree with the evidence and links or not.


Originally posted by Viendin
If you write with a slant, which is allowed as it's an OP/Ed piece, but with the slant just being how you present information as opposed to calling down every single group you can that you imagine does not agree with you, and assuming things that you probably do not know for sure, you can achieve a very high level of success, and I bet I would support you right now.


There was no slant, that is the truth of the situation in Cuba....

But I guess I should just bow my head down and nod to everything that John Bull says because he is a supermoderator....

Hey, he calls us names and proclaims we are getting paid to say these things, just bow down our heads and take it...right? Is that what you are saying? because that's what I am reading from your response.



Originally posted by Viendin
Instead, I (while not wholly agreeing with) JohnBull1, am feeling more sympathy towards him and his general side, because I can actually stand to read everything he's written. I read your entire first post, and feel that you could have done 90% of it by simply providing links and the first 5-6 paragraphs, as opposed to quoting several long stories.


I quote stories because most people do not read links, they just skim through excerpts and then make up their minds. When we give links we normally also give excerpts, and i was proving that the communist regime in Cuba is not heaven, like John and some others have been trying to claim.


Originally posted by Viendin
However, I don't believe that all the anti-Communism sentiment is needed.


Well, sorry to break it to you but most people who come from communist countries have anti-communist sentiments for a reason.


Originally posted by Viendin
The anti-American sentiment isn't needed. The anti-this and anti-that sentiments and statements - all really uneeded.


Me anti-american?...that's a first.


Originally posted by Viendin
The issue is whether or not Castro is, at the bottom line, hurting his people intentionally, hurting them unintentionally, or not hurting them at all. That involves America and Communism, but it is really the direct fault of neither.


Everything in Cuba is controlled by the communist regime. People can't speak, or even post their own thoughts, like people in the US, or in the UK can. People in Cuba are indoctrinated since childhood to be "soldiers for the revolution", people are starving because fidel wants to sell or give food to other revolutionary countries, among some of the other methods of control which the communist regime has placed upon the people of Cuba, and this is not the fault of communism or fidel?....




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