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POLITICS: Documents Show FBI Surveilled Protest Groups

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posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 10:00 PM
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OK, taking into consideration that the White House was aware of the NYT information for a year . . . . I believe that was ample time to charge the NYT with conspiracy and it was enough time for the White House to stop the news if it was That important to national security

The fact that they didn't is more than enough to make any one wonder Why Not?

The White House was caught with it's pants down and they didn't do anything because It was not going to affect any national security but Bushes credibility and disregard for Americans constitutional rights.

That is the excused given now to cover up for what is and will go into history as our president abuse of power.

So actually no matter how much many wants to make it a relevant issue of damaging America's Security it's obvious that it was not.

So people think and think hard, they were told to withheld the information for one year.

Because when the information got out it was election times.

Do not get blind by the propaganda.

Just like the leak of the CIA was tamper with, because elections, so what this surveillance leak.

Is all a game.




posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
The fact that they didn't is more than enough to make any one wonder Why Not?

Because the information was going to be leaked one way or the other?




The White House was caught with it's pants down and they didn't do anything because It was not going to affect any national security but Bushes credibility and disregard for Americans constitutional rights.

How was the White House caught with it's pants down when after all, the White House asked the NYT to postpone putting to print the leaked information? Logic is flawed.




That is the excused given now to cover up for what is and will go into history as our president abuse of power.

Excuse me, if Bush abused his power(s), did likewise Roosevelt, Carter, Reagan, and Clinton, all of whom did the same thing as Bush is being accused of?




So actually no matter how much many wants to make it a relevant issue of damaging America's Security it's obvious that it was not.

Flawed logic again, cause if the source of the leak was NSA or a member of Congress, Senate, or the House, or of any of the intelligence committees, then the leak is a national security issue and violation, and has just exposed, hence damaged, America's ability to thwart and combat terrorism within its own borders, and likewise abroad.





So people think and think hard, they were told to withheld the information for one year.

Because when the information got out it was election times.

And? The timing of this alone suggests it was put out just in time to see the Patriot Act come up for renewal. Timing, marg, seeing the coincidence here, other than what you mentioned?




Do not get blind by the propaganda.

Your warning is valid, but it is also valid for the giver of the warning.




seekerof

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Dec, 20 2005 @ 10:28 PM
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Ouch you should check out a trauma unit Marg cause you just got burned.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
The timing of this alone suggests it was put out just in time to see the Patriot Act come up for renewal. Timing, marg, seeing the coincidence here, other than what you mentioned?


From what I understand the timing had nothing to do with the PATRIOT Act. The reporter who wrote the article (James Risen) has a book coming out that would basically blow the lid off the story anyway, so the NYT held onto it for as long as they could (at the request of the Administration) and then realized they would be scooped by their own reporter if they DIDN'T run the story.

Doesn't it make more sense that if the NYT was trying to "time" the release of this story to hurt Bush it would've done so during his campaign last year?



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 09:54 AM
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I would like to think that this story is a testiment that people will eventually do what is right, regardless of the punishment. (the NYT author)

This administration has asked us to trust that it wont abuse these powers...
when in actuality, they already have... (see above links)

Some insiders (very high up ones) have come out and whistleblown regarding blantant abuse of these "powers". (we wouldn't have known of all the various, administration critisizing, christian groups that were targeted otherwise)

In short: if there had been no abuses, there would be no worthy critism...
so regardless of the law or national security...
the adminstration has already proven they will abuse it, so it is too late to trust.

they should have stayed away from the sacred cow of mainstream Christianity...
Or as some Okies say "they done pissed in their own wheaties" and now they get to eat...

[edit on 21-12-2005 by LazarusTheLong]



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 10:45 AM
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I have to say we have hit the slippery slope with a vengeance. You can call us all paranoid liberals if you want, but this is what was bound to happen. When you start tinkering around with civil liberties you are just a nose hair away from tyranny.

This crap smells like COINTELPRO, which is one of the reasons the government handcuffed the FBI in the first place. They don't know how to act when you give them a little power they wanna start blasting it at Americans. What more can you expect from a government that openly admits that they don't know who the "real" enemy is...tis a lie...let's face it, Americans are the real threat to their interest. Its right there in black and white. There is no room for dissent or protest anymore. Take your views and opinions and hide them in your pocket.

How can we accept this type of behavior from our government? This won't save one life. Its only going to degrade the quality of life in this country, but we won't realize that until its too late.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Saphronia
How can we accept this type of behavior from our government? This won't save one life. Its only going to degrade the quality of life in this country, but we won't realize that until its too late.


It already has saved lives and it has had to be reauthorized thirty time since it was instituted, which means that eventually, it's authorization would have eventually ended. This operation was classified to keep the information out of the hands of the enemy. The NYT delivered it to them on a silver platter. I call that treason.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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oh, you are going to have to prove that. you can't just say that this type of government run militarized surveillance on the American people has saved us from terrorist attacks from Islamic terrorist without proof. And saying there has been four years without an attack on American soil aint gone cut it because there was nearly eight years between the first WTC bombing and 911. Not one American was involved in either of those attacks, but we seem to be the target of both our government and the terrorist. There is some treason going on here, but it aint the NYT that's guilty of it.



[edit on 21-12-2005 by Saphronia]



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 04:52 PM
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To me this is not really something new.
I reported a story of the Army spying on US citizens back in August.
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

This has been part of our lives for decades in one shape or form.
Even our beloved JFK, was not above convertly monitoring US citizens who the goverment thought were suspicious. Also let us not forget the McArthur era where this was actually an accepted even welcomed activity (as long as you were not the target )

I have fought in the past for the freedoms that we enjoy today and yes, I am willing to fight and even die today to protect those feedoms now and in the future.

Do I like this "secret monitoring" by the CIA / FBI no. But I also know that this "secret monitoring" has not been kept too secret. There have been a number of news articles as well as threads here on ATS that have discussed this issue to death.

Flawed FBI Probe Of Bombing Used A Secret Warrant

mediafilter.org...

To me this is all just a media / political ploy to stir up resentment against Bush and the current administration. Why the media wants to do this I will never know. Bush and company need no help in making themselves look bad



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Because the information was going to be leaked one way or the other?


Yes and you know what it's about time the American people learn to know what their elected officials stands for it.



How was the White House caught with it's pants down when after all, the White House asked the NYT to postpone putting to print the leaked information? Logic is flawed.


Yes, they got caught with the pants down spying on American citizens and going around the congress to do it.



Excuse me, if Bush abused his power(s), did likewise Roosevelt, Carter, Reagan, and Clinton, all of whom did the same thing as Bush is being accused of?


Yes and they didn't manage to get a patriot act to abuse power and justify it.



Flawed logic again, cause if the source of the leak was NSA or a member of Congress, Senate, or the House, or of any of the intelligence committees, then the leak is a national security issue and violation, and has just exposed, hence damaged, America's ability to thwart and combat terrorism within its own borders, and likewise abroad.


Not it will not be a violation when the American publics civil rights are been violated by the same people that We the people elected to uphold our constitutional rights.



And? The timing of this alone suggests it was put out just in time to see the Patriot Act come up for renewal. Timing, marg, seeing the coincidence here, other than what you mentioned?


yeah timely very timely who benefited from it and who got losing from it, Seekerof, the only loser is we the people.



Your warning is valid, but it is also valid for the giver of the warning.


Yes propaganda to find excuses for nothing more than abuse of power, a rat chase, tell me Seekerof how many people got prosecuted and arrested during the spying?

BTW not Burning here at all.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 08:13 PM
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ATSNN - April 2005

Sneak and Peek clause of the PATRIOT Act ...

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof


That is the excused given now to cover up for what is and will go into history as our president abuse of power.

Excuse me, if Bush abused his power(s), did likewise Roosevelt, Carter, Reagan, and Clinton, all of whom did the same thing as Bush is being accused of?


I guess the answer would be yes! Flawed logic.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 10:02 PM
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Just 'cause everybody does it, doesn't make it right... Remember Mom and Dad telling you that? It still holds just as true at this age as it did when we were all youngsters.

Please don't make the same mistake some others have made about me... I'm not partisan. However, I do stand against stupidity and illegality.

This is not a declared war, to the best of my knowledge. Bush is overstepping the secret court bounds that he already has. Doesn't matte if it was Bush, Roosevelt, Lincoln, Kennedy, Slick Willie or my Uncle Aloysius Mercer....

Wrong is plain old wrong.



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 09:33 AM
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Why attack the NY Times for printing the facts? If making people aware puts the Bush administration in a bad light, don't punish the messenger.

People need to know that the Patriot Act is by design, a violation of the American citizen's right to privacy. It seems to me this bills geared more to stopping "newly defined" terrorists suspects such as PETA, Greenpeace, antiwar groups, etc., because they challenge existing government policy and expose corruption.

Last I heard the US's most dreaded terrorists came from outside the country. Yet has the present administration done the one thing that would block illegal access into the US? Of course not! Securing the borders would mean stanching the endless supply of cheap labor for corporate sponsors.

Meanwhile, authorities turn a blind eye on millions of unidentified, unaccountable illegals running rampant inside US borders and focus on those citizens who've finally had enough.

"Either you're with us or you're with the enemy." If PETA and the like, now rank amongst the enemy, I'm with the latter.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I couldn't agree with you more. The Bush Administration probably gets better press in Iran and North Korea than it does from the New York Times. It's disgraceful and makes a mockery of the First Amendment.


I think that in order to qualify as "a mockery of the first Amendment" you have to be using your right to free speech in a damaging and counter productive way... Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity are a mockery of the first Amendment, Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter are a mockery of the first Amendment. Pat Roberston is a mockery of the first Amendment. The KKK and Neo Nazi groups are a mockery of the first Amendment.

The New York Times is not.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 10:16 PM
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I'll bet you $20 that ats is registered as a terorist orginization. We do in asome random insignificant way indicate that we are plotting aginst the government but most of us just want out



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 10:37 PM
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Accordingly, TristanBW9456, other like topic and discussions boards would be listed/registered as a terrorist organization? You know, protest and activism organizations like MoveOn.org, freerepublic, Swift Vets, POWs for Truth, democraticunderground, etc, etc, etc.?

I hardly, hardly doubt that ATS is a listed/registered terrorist organization being ATS does not come close to meeting the general criteria or profile.





seekerof



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
I guess the answer would be yes! Flawed logic.


The day of truth and reckoning on flawed logic has yet to have taken place. When it does come, say in the case of what the Bush Administration is doing with monitoring international communications, bypassing the FISA court, etc, we will find out who exactly had the flawed logic, just like we did concerning the Rove/Plame situation.





seekerof



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 01:41 PM
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I think though that if a peacful protest organization is listed then people who talk about infiltrating a51 would be put on the list. Its not like I like the fact but I think that it is probable that we are being watched.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 01:50 PM
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Well it seems that already some of the groups that Bush has been spying on will have lawyers looking into possible law sues, how they can do that?

Simple, in 1984 the supreme court made possible for American citizens to sue the government for intentionally wiretapping in order to protect the fourth amendment.



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