Religion and Science?

I havent delved deep into the threads yet but hasnt anyone here studied the connection between science and belief?
I believe that this field is where we should focus for i find that alot of people are firmly centred into one.where as they are not so open to ideas
it is sad that almost all of the leaders of our entire history have been so.
i find it tragic how little these religious factions really know about the truth of which they claim to know everything about.this my friends is what jesus spoke of i believe is how far off from the true word of god they are. alot of
his parables spoke of a primitive discription of advanced sciences that we dont even fully understand today.now all of my posts are under the my opinion banner so please dont be mad at what i say.

I think there is a lot of 'science' in the bible. Surprised to find it, too. Of course I get laughed at for making such a 'ludicrous' comment--but those that laugh usually don't realize their view is tainted by their own agendas (and I refer to both sides of the 'believing' fence.') The world in general has an agenda--it's part of 'self-validation,' it seems.

There's a wealth of valuable and viable information in the bible--but unless one reads with an open mind, just to read and learn (as opposed to proving or disproving an already-attached-to opinion), it's hidden and seems like nonsense.

I'm not a christian and I'm not a scientist, but I am more than just a little intelligent. I have no points to prove and so I've gained immensely from the bible.

Funny, but it was being taught to trust and revere science which led me to recognize science in The Bible that then led me read it more deeply.

There have been more than a few scientists throughout history who have made 'discoveries' from searching the deeper meaning of Biblical texts but this point is often overlooked when they are held up as examples of 'reason' over 'faith'.

Galileo once wrote:

from Letter to the Grand Duchess Christina of Tuscany
(1615)

This being granted, I think that in discussions of physical problems we ought to begin not from the authority of scriptural passages but from sense­experiences and necessary demonstrations; for the holy Bible and the phenomena of nature proceed alike from the divine Word the former as the dictate of the Holy Ghost and the latter as the observant executrix of God's commands. It is necessary for the Bible, in order to be accommodated to the understanding of every man, to speak many things which appear to differ from the absolute truth so far as the bare meaning of the words is concerned. But Nature, on the other hand, is inexorable and immutable; she never transgresses the laws imposed upon her, or cares a whit whether her abstruse reasons and methods of operation are understandable to men. For that reason it appears that nothing physical which sense­experience sets before our eyes, or which necessary demonstrations prove to us, ought to be called in question (much less condemned) upon the testimony of biblical passages which may have some different meaning beneath their words. For the Bible is not chained in every expression to conditions as strict as those which govern all physical effects; nor is God any less excellently revealed in Nature's actions than in the sacred statements of the Bible. Perhaps this is what Tertullian meant by these words:

"We conclude that God is known first through Nature, and then again, more particularly, by doctrine, by Nature in His works, and by doctrine in His revealed word."

From this I do not mean to infer that we need not have an extraordinary esteem for the passages of holy Scripture. On the contrary, having arrived at any certainties in physics, we ought to utilize these as the most appropriate aids in the true exposition of the Bible and in the investigation of those meanings which are necessarily contained therein, for these must be concordant with demonstrated truths. I should judge that the authority of the Bible was designed to persuade men of those articles and propositions which, surpassing all human reasoning could not be made credible by science, or by any other means than through the very mouth of the Holy Spirit.

Yet even in those propositions which are not matters of faith, this authority ought to be preferred over that of all human writings which are supported only by bare assertions or probable arguments, and not set forth in a demonstrative way. This I hold to be necessary and proper to the same extent that divine wisdom surpasses all human judgment and conjecture.

His main idea in this area seems to be such as he states here:

With regard to this argument, I think in the first place that it is very pious to say and prudent to affirm that the holy Bible can never speak untruth-whenever its true meaning is understood.

Whenever its true meaning is understood.
Human beings, proud lot that we are, seem to think any 'errors' we discover are God's and not our own!

Humility has its rewards and pride has its fall.

[edit on 12/11/2005 by queenannie38]

the one part that ive heard being spoke upon the lips of many is what jesus's claim was was that he was the only son of god. If you follow the belief that we are all of one entity of physical matter upon this earth that would make that statement true with god being mabey even that which he believed we came from.this is what got me thinking upon this topic...and i have heard of the head and the body.i will be studying the bible more as soon as i can find some time..I have suddenly had a need to study this jesus character and try to understand what it is that hes trying to say...

Sorry people if i offend anyone although these are just my simpl views
as are yours......spaces.msn.com...

Originally posted by toraylin
the one part that ive heard being spoke upon the lips of many is what jesus's claim was was that he was the only son of god. If you follow the belief that we are all of one entity of physical matter upon this earth that would make that statement true with god being mabey even that which he believed we came from.this is what got me thinking upon this topic...and i have heard of the head and the body.i will be studying the bible more as soon as i can find some time..I have suddenly had a need to study this jesus character and try to understand what it is that hes trying to say...

Sorry people if i offend anyone although these are just my simpl views
as are yours......spaces.msn.com...

Jesus' claim was that his words and deeds would show the world who he was, The Christ is the only begotten son of God, there is a place for this Christ to reside in each of us, The Christ is not a physical person, each of us are Gods unto ourselves good or bad, The Christ within us is the marker of the maker, it ensures our survival.

Just as Jesus himself said
13. Then hear, you men of Israel, hear! Look not upon the flesh; it is not king. Look to the Christ within, who shall be formed in every one of you, as he is formed in me.


Jesus visits Greece and is welcomed by the Athenians. Meets Apollo. Addresses the Grecian masters in the Amphitheatre. The address.

1. The Greek philosophy was full of pungent truth, and Jesus longed to study with the masters in the schools of Greece.
2. And so he left his home in Nazareth and crossed the Carmel hills, and at the port took ship, and soon was in the Grecian capital.
3. Now, the Athenians had heard of him as teacher and philosopher, and they were glad to have him come to them that they might hear his words of truth.
4. Among the masters of the Greeks was one, Apollo, who was called, Defender of the Oracle, and recognised in many lands as Grecian sage.
5. Apollo opened up for Jesus all the doors of Grecian lore, and in the Areopagus he heard the wisest masters speak.
6. But Jesus brought to them a wisdom greater far than theirs; and so he taught.
7. Once in the Amphitheatre he stood, and when Apollo bade him speak he said,
8. Athenian masters, hear! In ages long ago, men, wise in nature's laws, sought out and found the place on which your city stands.
9. Full well you know that there are parts of earth where its great beating heart throws heavenward etheric waves that meet the ethers from above:
10. Where spirit-light and understanding, like the stars of night, shine forth.
11. Of all the parts of earth there is no place more sensitised, more truly spirit-blest, than that where Athens stands.
12. Yea, all of Greece is blest. No other land has been the homeland of such mighty men of thought as grace your scrolls of fame.
13. A host of sturdy giants of philosophy, of poetry, of science, and of art, were born upon the soil of Greece, and rocked to manhood in your cradle of pure thought.
14. I come not here to speak of science, of philosophy, or art; of these you are the world's best masters now.
15. But all your high accomplishments are but stepping stones to worlds beyond the realm of sense; are but illusive shadows flitting on the walls of time.
16. But I would tell you of a life beyond, within; a real life that cannot pass away.
17. In science and philosophy there is no power strong enough to fit a soul to recognise itself, or to commune with God.
18. I would not stay the flow of your great streams of thought; but I would turn them to the channels of the soul.
19. Unaided by the Spirit-breath, the work of intellection tends to solve the problems of the things we see, and nothing more.
20. The senses were ordained to bring into the mind mere pictures of the things that pass away; they do not deal with real things; they do not comprehend eternal law.
21. But man has something in his soul, a something that will tear the veil apart that he may see the world of real things.
22. We call this something, spirit consciousness; it sleeps in every soul, and cannot be awakened till the Holy Breath becomes a welcome guest.
23. This Holy Breath knocks at the door of every soul, but cannot enter in until the will of man throws wide the door.
24. There is no power in intellect to turn the key; philosophy and science both have toiled to get a glimpse behind the veil; but they have failed.
25. The secret spring that throws ajar the door of soul is touched by nothing else than purity in life, by prayer and holy thought.
26. Return, O mystic stream of Grecian thought, and mingle your clear waters with the flood of Spirit-life; and then the spirit consciousness will sleep no more, and man will know, and God will bless.
27. When Jesus had thus said he stepped aside. The Grecian masters were astonished at the wisdom of his words; they answered not.

Jesus speaks to the people in Bethany. Tells them how to become pure in heart. Goes to Jerusalem and in the temple reads from a prophetic book. Goes to Nazareth.

1. The news soon spread abroad that Jesus, king of Israel, had come to Bethany, and all the people of the town came forth to greet the king.
2. And Jesus, standing in the midst of them, exclaimed, Behold, indeed, the king has come, but Jesus is not king.
3. The kingdom truly is at hand; but men can see it not with carnal eyes; they cannot see the king upon the throne.
4. This is the kingdom of the soul; its throne is not an earthly throne; its king is not a man.
5. When human kings found kingdoms here, they conquer other kings by force of arms; one kingdom rises on the ruins of another one.
6. But when our Father-God sets up the kingdom of the soul, he pours his blessings forth, like rain, upon the thrones of earthly kings who rule in righteousness.
7. It is not rule that God would overthrow; his sword is raised against injustice, wantonness and crime.
8. Now, while the kings of Rome do justice, and love mercy and walk humbly with their God, the benediction of the Triune God will rest upon them all.
9. They need not fear a messenger whom God sends forth to earth.
10. I am not sent to sit upon a throne to rule as Cæsar rules; and you may tell the ruler of the Jews that I am not a claimant for his throne.
11. Men call me Christ, and God has recognised the name; but Christ is not a man. The Christ is universal love, and Love is king.
12. This Jesus is but man who has been fitted by temptations overcome, by trials multiform, to be the temple through which Christ can manifest to men.
13. Then hear, you men of Israel, hear! Look not upon the flesh; it is not king. Look to the Christ within, who shall be formed in every one of you, as he is formed in me.
14. When you have purified your hearts by faith, the king will enter in, and you will see his face.
15. And then the people asked, What must we do that we may make our bodies fit abiding places for the king?
16. And Jesus said, Whatever tends to purity in thought, and word, and deed will cleanse the temple of the flesh.
17. There are no rules that can apply to all, for men are specialists in sin; each has his own besetting sin,
18. And each must study for himself how he can best transmute his tendency to evil things to that of righteousness and love.
19. Until men reach the higher plane, and get away from selfishness, this rule will give the best results:
20. Do unto other men what you would have them do to you.
21. And many of the people said, We know that Jesus is the Christ, the king who was to come, and blessed be his name.
22. Now, Jesus and his six disciples turned their faces toward Jerusalem, and many people followed them.
23. But Matthew, son of Alpheus, ran on before, and when he reached Jerusalem, he said, Behold the Christines come! The multitudes came forth to see the king.
24. But Jesus did not speak to any one until he reached the temple court, and then he opened up a book and read:
25. Behold, I send my messenger, and he will pave the way, and Christ, for whom you wait, will come unto his temple unannounced. Behold, for he will come, says God, the Lord of hosts.
26. And then he closed the book; he said no more; he left the temple halls, and with his six disciples, went his way to Nazareth,
27. And they abode with Mary, Jesus' mother, and her sister, Miriam.

Originally posted by toraylin
the one part that ive heard being spoke upon the lips of many is what jesus's claim was was that he was the only son of god.

He only claimed to be the son of God and the son of Man.

He is the first-born of the dead, the only begotten son of the Father--but we are all destined to be sons of God, too. Begotten means straight from the loins of--we will be begotten through the Holy Spirit, because of the First-born. We are heirs since He is heir. But He is not the only heir, just the first and most senior.

One thing to remember: forget what comes out upon the lips of man--the 'tongue is a little member, able to set big fires.' IOW, our tongues lie but God does not.
Your heart will tell you what men confuse with their speaking in so many ways of justifying their own personal issues.

'It is better to trust in God than to put confidence in men.'
Psalms 118:8

I would like to thank you for your guys help....

A suggestion. Rather then attempt to find science in the bible why not attempt to discover what you / we can about what we have been able to figure out about how the book we call "the bible" came about. The discovery process is fascinating and I was amazed by all the well researched information available to us for the asking.
One example might be the discovery that the book you call the bible, most likely the KJV is not 5000 years old as many assume. The version, one among a multitude, is only about 400 plus years old. It is the product of countless redactations and most likely bears little resemblance to any of the original works almost all of which were probably written by committee. Additionally, there were four major redactations of the original work which became the official Hebrew bible offhandedly referred to by christians as the "old testament".
You and others have made statements of fact about what biblical figures said and did. Regarding Jesus, for example, there is no possibility that anyone anywhere has any knowledge whatever of anything about him or of what he, if he existed at all, may have said or done. This information from which you may extrapolate this is available for anyone actually interested enough to make an effort.
So rather than ponder whether the bible has any science why not actually learn something about the modern book and a little of the multitude of people and documents which resulted in the version so many quote but about which most of them know so little.
Just a thought.
skep

Our main problem in our society is the fact that our world is governed by information based on lies and slanted truth.i am not a scholar by any means.but the fact that so many rely on the words of those that were
obviously biased upon the situation.The bible unforunately is very thin compared to the amount of time and history of our world that it portrays.and most record of the events transcribed have been lost or destroyed due to those who used god as their image to rule over others and fuel their armies will to fight for their cause by undershadowing it by the most heralded thing of all.and i believe that if we were to have more information that there would be alot less war over the whole thing.

The war you speak of is between Gods who claim to be the only one.

War is unbalanced thought, it is a speech, dictating that one is correct, when death and violence is the outcome you are firsthand witness to the bad fruit. Jesus came and caused unrest, yes; yet no blood was shed, no ill was done. He didn't fight using weapons, he fought using words and deeds still known to this day; and still no one man has created such works with his own hands until NOW, sure a person here may do something amazing and a person there, but no one person has done the healing and teaching as this one man.

Do not take the bibles account of this man, for the bible has done a poor job of dictating his work, read older scriptures, read scriptures that aren't recognized by the churches (i.e. The Gospel of Saint Thomas) or some of the Infancy gospels, Read all accounts of Jesus, not just one account, that is like going to FOX for your news and relying on them for the truth.
The truth is inside us all, we know truth.. it is strangely familiar.

IMO our Main problem with society is the fact that our world is governed by cherry picked information... that is information that is selected because its nice to hear, it pleases our desires and emotions, not because it is truth.
and scarcely do I consider a leatherbound pile of notes, Holy... instead the truths that are hidden within the words, the meaning, gnosis, the hidden keys, that is what my heart listens to.

well this link is a good one to get to know christ out side the biblical texts www.sacred-texts.com... because if we could make a direct link to sceince and faith we could have quite the unit on hand

This topic is one I'm very passionate about. Unfortunately I am in a place where my best resources on this topic are not at hand. Look for my posts near the end of the week, I think you may find what modern science has to say about religion very intriguing. (I shall attempt to give you quotes from Steven Hawking, Einstein, and some other great scientists in my posts)

Here was a debate on this very issue with some interesting links to information on science and Christianity. This is a subject that interests me greatly, and every new piece of scientific information I take in reaffirms my faith in God and Christ.