Chavez Ships Discounted Heating Oil to Needy US Families

I'm poor and I live in MA, so I applaud Chavez for his generosity. If he could help me with my student loans, and maybe put me through grad school, I'd really appreciate it.

Seriously. I'll be an asset to the world if I ever climb out of this debt-hole, I promise.

Anyone think Mr. Chavez is a member of the boards?

Originally posted by marg6043

Really? I see how well informed you are to make this statement, do you know why Chavez nationalized its oil?

to quell protestors who refused to work because him.....

do you think cheap oil comes without ripping employees off their deserved pay?

i say no thanks to helping poor through slave wages.

[edit on 10-12-2005 by namehere]

Originally posted by namehere

to quell protestors who refused to work because him.....

He, he, and that is why Saddam did the same right?

do you think cheap oil comes without ripping employees off their deserved pay?

Oh, you mean the profits that oil American companies are losing right? now the people are really getting the money not Conoco and Mobil CEO.

Get off the propaganda you have been fed and learn the truth.

i say no thanks to helping poor through slave wages.

Yeah maybe you don't need the charity but many welcome it with open arms after all our own American barons think that the poor American people is not worth their time just their money.

Well, I figure I'll add my 2.7 billion cents here.


Should it really matter if he's trying to make himself look good, or something?

I think what should matter, is that he is giving oil to those people in need.


Whats really sad, is that the American government is not even trying to keep it's own people safe by giving them the oil they need.

Originally posted by marg6043

He, he, and that is why Saddam did the same right?

Oh, you mean the profits that oil American companies are losing right? now the people are really getting the money not Conoco and Mobil CEO.

Get off the propaganda you have been fed and learn the truth.

Yeah maybe you don't need the charity but many welcome it with open arms after all our own American barons think that the poor American people is not worth their time just their money.

you quickly forget the massive oil protests he put down by force, dont you.

you need to get off your anti-capitalist propoganda bs and read what i said, unless you think oil workers dont deserve being paid fairly for their hard work, cheap oil comes by exploiting workers, why should they be paid unfairly so chaves can exploit their hard work for political gain? open your eyes, he cares as much as any ceo about others, he is only interested in political gain, dont lecture me about propoganda.

dont assume things, and i rather not have help at the expense of those who work their butts off to drill the oil, why should i benefit off their mistreatment by chavez?

Originally posted by iori_komeiI think what should matter, is that he is giving oil to those people in need.

at the expense of underpaid oil workers....

namehere

Hey if you think that poor Americans are getting cheaper oil prices because Chavez is oppressing its people, what do you call our own democratic government that sit back and do nothing to help the people in need this winter? While Real Americans die for lack of heat during the winter.

I guess you must think like our monopolized oil companies. . . they are just casualties of capitalism going greedy and controlled by the few.

Hum . . . I wonder. if you will step over your own American fellow citizens in need if they ever raise against the oil industry and demand cheaper oil.

Poor americans that need oil....

Come on now.

Natives lived on this continent long before heating oil and they survived just fine.

I think the problem lies in oversize american homes designed to run on endless supplies of oil.

This is about lifestyle. If poor americans really wanted to be warm they'd pitch a teepee in the back yard and get a campfire going. Truth is america is about posh lifestyle... Bling Blingin' Even the poor expect push button central heat and air, because they're sold out on convenience. Difference is they have no job, collect unemployment and spend it on drugs and alcohol leaving nothing to pay the bills. Then uncle sam's goons make an oil deal with chavez, all the elites get their pockets coated. The lower class is appeased with free push button heat in their free HUD home with plastic siding and plastic roof... and they're given plenty of food stamps so the plastic wrappers from their snickers bars can blow in the streets... every last penny funneled to the cartel. The working class finances it.

God forbid an overweight spoonfed American should lift a finger for comfort.

Chavez's oil deal is coating his countries pockets by selling oil below already-over-inflated-prices. Big deal; that doesn't make him an angel. He's just being opportunistic. Nobody needs oil.

The outcast chopping logs by hand to keep warm this and every winter,

Sri Oracle

It's difficult to believe that Americans will be going backrupt because of the benevolent benefactor, Chavez. Moreover, it is all to easy to be cynical, most everyone is these days. Yes, it's easier to be cynical than to look upon the action of Chavez as an act of compassion or kindness.

Funny, how those who are somewhat comfortable can afford to slap the hand of help in self-righteous indignation while some of their fellow countrymen suffer cold or unordinate debt trying to stay warm.

Let's not have the sins of the delivery man be visited by those in utter need.

Originally posted by FEMA
It's difficult to believe that Americans will be going bankrupt because of the benevolent benefactor, Chavez.

As a whole the US gets wealthier for sure. Though the wealth goes to those aligned with the cartel, a Worley Parsons exec perhaps. The working class are fleeced. The poor appeased with push button convienience and another 12 hour day of television. The only thing Chavez is helping is the distruction of middle class and the polarity of the economic structure as more become dependent on big brother for the cartel's oil.

Moreover, it is all to easy to be cynical, most everyone is these days. Yes, it's easier to be cynical than to look upon the action of Chavez as an act of compassion or kindness.

An act of compassion passes on wisdom. Chavez did not send people here to help our poor build methane digestors to heat themselves. He did not send wood burning stoves. He did not purchase US land and plant white oak seedlings then turn it over to the government for fuel purposes. He did not help us construct subterrainian homes that naturally hold themselves at 60 F. He sold our government oil 'on sale' to heat our oversized post WWII suburban homes. Thanks Chavez for the discounted dose of cancer! Our nation needed the extra pollution for sure.

Funny, how those who are somewhat comfortable can afford to slap the hand of help in self-righteous indignation while some of their fellow countrymen suffer cold or unordinate debt trying to stay warm.

Indignation: a sense that what has occurred is unrighteous.

Yep.

I'm somewhat comfortable because I get off my a** and work each day. One doesn't notice how cold it is inside on the couch if they're outside breaking a sweat. I come from a time when grandma is in the backyard chopping wood. Do you remember? 8lb maul. Swift and Accurate.

Let's not have the sins of the delivery man be visited by those in utter need.

Utter need? Ever spent time in a US ghetto? I wonder how many scratch off lotto tickets per capita the averge american utter need family consumed last year. I wonder what the averge per capita consumption of blunt wraps and Old Milwalkee singles is for these utter need families. I wonder how many bottles of blue juice their kids sucked down. I wonder when the last time they chose to buy a pound of dried beans and rice that would last a week instead of a Churches' Chicken box to feed their cellulite right now. Utter need occurs in the US because the poor piss out every last red cent on BS wants and desires... then they smile and stick out their hand. I personally have no problem giving out cans of food and blankets. I have surplus and every poor begger that knocks on my door gets some. And trust me, I live in the hood, they knock.

But transferring my tax money to the cartel to appease the masses with crude which I go out of my way not to use in the first place because it only pollutes INIbrother. F that.

Indignation,

Sri Oracle

[edit on 28-12-2005 by Sri Oracle]

An act of compassion passes on wisdom.

So say you. The last time you dropped a dime into a begger's hat did you add that he should have paid better attention in school? . . . should have been born into a society less judgmental? . . . should have been born into a better family? . . . should have been born in a better neighborhood?

I'm betting you didn't; after all, your words of wisdom would only have been casting pearls before swine. Right?

The distance from your living room to that sidewalk is a very short.

Chavez did not send people here to help our poor build methane digestors to heat themselves.

No he didn't, your right. He sent immediate aid, that which he had instantly on hand . . . no grandiose plan, no save the world technology, no lectures on would'da, could'da, should'da --- no time to waste.

He did not send wood burning stoves.

He, no doubt, considered that these needy families were not living in nature's lap and that most were confined to cities.

He did not purchase US land and plant white oak seedlings then turn it over to the government for fuel purposes.

No, he did not. His words of wisdom were direct and immediate. "People need help, we'll send it right this instant."

He did not help us construct subterrainian homes that naturally hold themselves at 60 F. He sold our government oil 'on sale' to heat our oversized post WWII suburban homes. Thanks Chavez for the discounted dose of cancer!

Of course, better to send body bags to collect those who succumb to the cold. How thoughtless of him.

Our nation needed the extra pollution for sure.

Your nation is not capable of producing enough polution on its own? . . . his donation is nothing more than an attempt to usurp the stellar environmental efforts of the US government? . . . for the love of God man, or better yet, for the love of your fellow countrymen, please tell me you're not making a political statement by railing in this thread at the expense of those in need.

I'm sure such comments would warm the hearts and children of those unfortunates requiring immediate aid. After all, they need an education in environmental studies; wisdom isn't it? --- they could burn their books to stay warm.

Just what the world needs, more fiddlers' (politicians) while Rome burns.

The next time you're involved in a car accident (I utterly hope you are not) ask yourself what you require more: A lecture on how paying better attention for that drunk driver around you could have saved you from your pain and grief, OR, immediate extrication and medical assistance.

Edited for a typo, its a curse.

[edit on 28-12-2005 by FEMA]

I am surprised anyone is considering Chavez to be good guy just because he ships some oil to the poor in Northeast. Wake up, this guy is one of those who continually lobs for HIGHER oil prices in OPEC. In fact high oil prices are in Venezuelan national interest, and they are necessary to fund his expensive social programs so he will do everything to keep them so high.

Originally posted by FEMA
The last time you dropped a dime into a begger's hat did you add that he should have paid better attention in school? . . . should have been born into a society less judgmental? . . . should have been born into a better family? . . . should have been born in a better neighborhood? I'm betting you didn't; after all, your words of wisdom would only have been casting pearls before swine. Right?

I consider it blasphemous to drop a dime into a begger's hat. You are just enabling them. You give a dollar to a man with nothing who stands begging at your door and he's going to waste it on one meal. With that same dollar you can buy a bag of rice and keep it cooked ready to hand out to the next 5 beggars that knock at your door. When I get that knock I have however, been known to give books of wisdom... advice on guerilla gardening, and when someone asks for food, I feed them. I cannot remember the last time I chose to give someone petroleum as a gift, and I think I'd laugh at them if they begged for it.

The distance from your living room to that sidewalk is a very short.

The building I type to you from was a condemned building 2 years ago. It sat vacant except for crackheads and prostitutes for close to a decade before that. A crow may be able to fly 15 feet from where I stand to the sidewalk but that in no way accounts for the many steps I have taken to crawl from that same sidewalk to this comfortable living room. Every bit of the illusion that surrounds me I have built or rebuilt with my own two hands. I did the same in the last condemned building I lived in and I will do something similar at the next campsite I crash at. I have standards in my Kingdom.

No he didn't, your right. He sent immediate aid, that which he had instantly on hand . . . no grandiose plan, no save the world technology, no lectures on would'da, could'da, should'da --- no time to waste.

So you're saying he's a world leader who gets bogged down in the immediate and urgent rather than choose to LEAD by focusing on the important, say a 'grandiose plan' to get the US Northeast off its dependence on fossil fuels to heat their homes.

I think its time for Stephen Covey to speak up. "Mr Covey?"

...my dear friends... What one thing could you do in your personal and professional life that if you did on a regular basis would make a tremendous positive difference in your life? Quadrant II (IMPORTANT but NOT URGENT) activities have that kind of impact. Our effectiveness takes quantum leaps when we do them.

...

To say "yes" to important Quadrant II priorities, you have to learn to say "no" to other activities, sometimes apparently urgent things.

...

The enemy of the best is often the GOOD.

Chavez is getting bogged down in the immediate and managing the urgent at best. At worst he is just another cog helping the cartel. That sounds like a leader I can really look up to.

He, no doubt, considered that these needy families were not living in nature's lap and that most were confined to cities.

We all live in natures lap and at her mercy. The only thing you can be confined by is your own dogma, poor habit, or desire. Why is it I am able to stay warm collecting firewood off of curbsides in the middle of one of a US city? Is it a miracle? A grace? no. It is my own self sacrifice, firewood is heavy.

No, he did not. His words of wisdom were direct and immediate. "People need help, we'll send it right this instant."

Lull pacify... let the peoples minds slip into the 'not-important... not-urgent' everything is ok... you really can keep on living like this... its real... the oil will keep coming... vote for the man in the blue suit with the red tie.

Ok... so what about next year? And the year after that? And then? How many times can you make the "People need help, we'll send it right this instant." speech and actually have reserves to back it up. HELLO WORLD: We are enterning an era in which the masses can no longer afford to consume oil on the scale they are used to. Adapt or die.

Of course, better to send body bags to collect those who succumb to the cold. How thoughtless of him.

Do you not see something wrong with a class of people who live under petroleum based roofs, eating food grown on petroleum derived fertilizer, being kept alive on petroleum based pharmacuticals, and heating their homes on petroleum based heating oil that their well-armed mafia of red-ties buys on their behalf at a discount from Venezuela?

Your nation is not capable of producing enough polution on its own? . . . his donation is nothing more than an attempt to usurp the stellar environmental efforts of the US government?

This is just the point. Why is my government accepting gifts of oil? Why year after year, election after election we talk about our reliance on foreign fuel and yet nothing internally is done about it except when the people can't afford fuel we buy more cheap foreign fuel? And the skies become more and more brown with each passing season. Why not... hey Chavez... we appreciate your offer... but we can handle this year on our own... please help us find solutions for next year.

. . . for the love of God man, or better yet, for the love of your fellow countrymen, please tell me you're not making a political statement by railing in this thread at the expense of those in need.

There is nothing more powerful than the Word. Humanity is failing. People freezing in New England is not a fluke. It is a sign of things to come. The Rule is telling man to Change. If you live there and you know you cannot afford to heat your home now... DO NOT EXPECT IT TO GET BETTER. Make changes in your life now. Find alternatives. The same goes if you find yourself living in the path of hurricanes or the base of volcanoes. You must expect and prepare against nature's fury.

I'm sure such comments would warm the hearts and children of those unfortunates requiring immediate aid. After all, they need an education in environmental studies; wisdom isn't it? --- they could burn their books to stay warm.

The only thing that will ever inspire warm hearts in children is powerful leadership. When mom collects her welfare check and gets her free heating oil they learn nothing. I would much rather see them suffer the cold at an early age. Having experienced Truth, they would be more likely to adapt.

Just what the world needs, more fiddlers' (politicians) while Rome burns.

I am not running for any office. I am only offering solutions.

The next time you're involved in a car accident (I utterly hope you are not) ask yourself what you require more: A lecture on how paying better attention for that drunk driver around you could have saved you from your pain and grief, OR, immediate extrication and medical assistance.

You've lost the point. These are world leaders. If they were acting effectively there would not be a reduction in the occurance of such emergencies. Leaders should not waiting for them to occur; circling hawks like the lawyers and tow truck drivers at the scene of your accident... grabbing the spotlight as humanitarian of the year. That is: "Fiddling while Rome burns".

Sri Oracle

would of been nice had this really happened

You've lost the point. These are world leaders. If they were acting effectively there would not be a reduction in the occurance of such emergencies. Leaders should not waiting for them to occur; circling hawks like the lawyers and tow truck drivers at the scene of your accident... grabbing the spotlight as humanitarian of the year. That is: "Fiddling while Rome burns".

No, *you've* lost the point utterly and completely. You've chosen to belly-ache, climb on a soapbox and spout political and ecological obfuscation all in the name of condemning those less fortunate. You've decided - out of hand - that they are all lazy, not working as hard as you, not up to standard, a blight on society suckling at the breast of welfare. Your view reveals an inability to grasp the meaning of this thread and points to the most profound definition of myopia one could imagine.

These are world leaders. If they were acting effectively there would not be a reduction in the occurance of such emergencies.

Read your quote above, I'm sure the word *not* should'nt be there if it is your contention their lack of planning has caused the situation.

The reality is that the emergency did happen and rather than point fingers of blame Chavez simply lent a hand . . . and from what is gathered from your posts one can conclude you'd be happy to lecture those in need rather than allow them help. Such a position will eternally baffle humanitarians.

This thread is not hard to understand. It is a thread pointing to an act of kindness and compassion by a country. Simple. Period. How is it you are offended by such acts?

As I see it, the world could use a sound dose of compassion in place of soapbox lectures, action-paralyzing condemnation, and myopic obfuscation. But, then again, this would leave finger pointers and their ilk with nothing to do.

No men stand so tall as when they stoop to help another.

I read a story of a homeless man with a colostomy. A policeman had approached the man assuming that the bulge under his clothes was a bottle of liquor. He demanded that the man hand it over. The man was confused and stood immobilized. The policeman grew angry at what he interpreted to be lack of compliance. He repeated his order. The man looked at him with childlike innocence. The policeman could no longer contain his rage. He punched the man in what he assumed was the contraband. The man died. There were no charges brought.

One gone, many more to go. Right?

Not on my watch!

Originally posted by FEMA
You've decided - out of hand - that they are all lazy, not working as hard as you, not up to standard, a blight on society suckling at the breast of welfare.

I believe it was tarantino... 'path of the righteous is beset with the inequity of the weak.'

Your view reveals an inability to grasp the meaning of this thread and points to the most profound definition of myopia one could imagine.

Lets see here... this is a thread in the peak oil CONSPIRACY forum at ATS. I assert that there is potential for Chavez and the oil cartel to be getting rich and playing it off as humanitarian relief when they give discounted oil to Americans in the NE during crisis. I think I'm on suject. Manufactured crisis. Cartel is ready to help clean up.

Read your quote above, I'm sure the word *not* should'nt be there

Correct sir. I'm glad you're following.

The reality is that the emergency did happen and rather than point fingers of blame Chavez simply lent a hand . . . and from what is gathered from your posts one can conclude you'd be happy to lecture those in need rather than allow them help. Such a position will eternally baffle humanitarians.

I'd let them be. Allow them to suffer their fate. The balloon is long since due to pop. We've been living against Jah Will for generations. The earth is over populated because of petroleum. It is better to concern oneself with seeing to it that future generations are not stuck in the middle of suburbia unable to afford the foreign fuels which their home heating is dependent upon. I'm a cut my losses and move forward man. I cut bad branches off of trees. You want push button convenience? I have no pity. Life requires sacrifice.

This thread is not hard to understand. It is a thread pointing to an act of kindness and compassion by a country. Simple. Period. How is it you are offended by such acts?

There is something more sinister hidden behind any act of compassion tied to a multibillion dollar oil deal.

As I see it, the world could use a sound dose of compassion in place of soapbox lectures, action-paralyzing condemnation, and myopic obfuscation. But, then again, this would leave finger pointers and their ilk with nothing to do.

The world wouldn't need such a dose of compassion if it listened to a few soapbox lectures and I wouldn't condemn action if it was truly righteous. I expect better than good solutions. Now as far as my myopic obfuscation goes... I'll be straight, I looked it up. So we're all on the same page here's what I found:

Myopic: Lack of discernment or long-range perspective in thinking or planning

Obfuscation: To make so confused or opaque as to be difficult to perceive or understand.

Myopic... I call for leadership that concerns itself with important problems facing our future not urgent matters one can leverage for political appeal, and this is myopic?

Obfuscation... I tell my brothers they should make sacrifice... leave the city, return to the land. Live a simple life, in an earth bermed structure heated with wood. Life in a modern home in the suburbs is unsustainable. What is so unclear about that? Google search: PERMACULTURE

No men stand so tall as when they stoop to help another.

*stooping down low* *bowing* *curtsie* Google search: PERMACULTURE

One gone, many more to go. Right?

I really don't know where you were going on the cop beating down the homeless guy thing. Thats f'd up.

Sri Oracle




[edit on 29-12-2005 by Sri Oracle]

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
would of been nice had this really happened

Though enjoying the topic of discourse... is this true? No Chavez deal?

The meaning that best fits myopic is contained in your quote: "I'd let them be. Allow them to suffer their fate."

On obfuscation: ". . . this is a thread in the peak oil CONSPIRACY forum at ATS." When I checked this *thread title* - not forum - it read: "Chavez Ships Discounted Heating Oil to Needy US Families."

I really don't know where you were going on the cop beating down the homeless guy thing. Thats f'd up.

You really think that's "f'd up?" Really? All I did was highlight the underpinning message contained in your posts: "Allow them to suffer their fate."


Edited for typo, it's a curse.



[edit on 29-12-2005 by FEMA]

The meaning that best fits myopic is contained in your quote: "I'd let them be. Allow them to suffer their fate."

Obsessing with the urgent, immediate, and pressing is myopic thinking. Concerning oneself with the future, being farsighted, knowing the IMPORTANTANCE to concern oneself with the potential for disaster, in this I base my statement, "Allow them to suffer their fate." Only in experiencing hardship can men know truth and make sacrifice. Sacrifice is forgoing immediate needs for a higher cause. Only by dealing with elephants on the horizon right now can we avoid being trampled when they get here. Only when men make a clear note of their brothers being trampled while noting vision of more trampling to come can the masses see the truth... can vision pass from myopia to "cut our losses" and thinking based upon farsighted solutions. It would be sin to obfuscate this vision from the masses.

On obfuscation: ". . . this is a thread in the peak oil CONSPIRACY forum at ATS." When I checked this *thread title* - not forum - it read: "Chavez Ships Discounted Heating Oil to Needy US Families."

Perhaps we should ask the moderators to move this over to "social issues" on PTS. No body discussing conspiracies here folks. FEMA says this is just humanitarian. I suppose there is no underlying conspiracy in completely ruining roofs on the Gulf Coast with nails from plastic blue tarps so that instead of patching, whole petrochemical asphalt roofs needed replaced. Another FEMA humanitarian cause. Oh and look... tons of petro plastic tarps magically appear. Emergency managment is synonymous with pour oil on it and everything will be better... then tell everyone that you'll keep on saving them with more and more oil... just keep voting for the party. Appease the masses as you suck their wealth of self motivation away.

You really think that's "f'd up?" Really? All I did was highlight the underpinning message contained in your posts: "Allow them to suffer their fate."

Going Rodney King on a man you believe to be possessing an open container in no way compares to telling people in the NE: "Your lifestyle is unsustainable... You need to change... You are a burden on us all... The Lord is punishing you for your Sloth and will continue until YOU change. I will not continue to feed you your illusion. Get off the crack. The cheap oil age is over." The longer society clings to the delusion that life can be lived at the push of a petro-button the more we all suffer.

Have you ever considered the life of the Amish man in the NE who day after day works with his hands, sacrifices, and makes due... He has to breath the same polluted air as the man getting the hand out of oil. With each breath of smog that floats from the city to his country home he continues on his righteous path that harms none because he knows:

To work you are entitled, never to its fruit.

Rasta,

Sri Oracle

[edit on 29-12-2005 by Sri Oracle]



Perhaps we should ask the moderators to move this over to "social issues" on PTS. No body discussing conspiracies here folks. FEMA says this is just humanitarian.

Your retort is lamentable at best. Calling on the moderators to protect you from your own words, words you contend surface a conspiracy. I say there is none, just an act of kindness and concern, which stands well upon the prima facie bedrock of discussion this board was founded on.

You exposed yourself as a soul devoid of humanity, not I. "Allow them to suffer their fate."

"Allow them to suffer their fate." Your words, not mine, Your perspective, not mine. Your shortcoming in humanity --- not mine.

"Get off the crack." I, somehow, expected better of you than an ad hominem attack in which you trying to impinge my character in an effort to dismiss my point. I was wrong.

Simply put, you'll not escape your own words, they've exposed you for who and what you are: "Allow them to suffer their fate."

You'll excuse me now as I have to run. I have to respond to a MVA. I don't have the luxury of saying: "Allow them to suffer their fate."

I'm a firefighter.