How I envision Attack on Irans Nuke Facility

Vis Mega

Your Post is too long to read, next time, if you want people to listen to anything you say, make it short, this is a board, not a book.

Another thing, your from Canada, I expected the Anti-war pacifist movement from you, along with the "Everything wrong with the world is Bush and the US" mindset. Obviously you believe a nuclear power in the hands of radical islamic extremists, who say they are doing allahs work, is just fine and that you are willing to trust a society who butchers its people, cuts off body parts, and calls for Isreals destruction.

We americans, do not wish death upon anyone except tyrants and criminals who have already murdered hunderds and thousadns, I.E. Saddam, and if you know anything about history, you would see that the US is in the business of Bettering lives. Seems your solution is just like the socialist agenda, provide more money so they can have better lives, your solution is always more money. More money, more money. How many more american tax dollars do we need to provide to people like you and others to cover your worthless solution. If you want peace, you provide people with safety and properity. They should be able to then provide for themselves under the umbrella of safety and liberty such as the US has provided to our citizens, along with all other democracies.

Giving money to Iran will not make them a peace loving, islamofacist free democracy. Iran needs to be taught a lesson. You cannot threaten your neighbors with destruction and death and they need to quit supplying terrorists and others with weapons to kill people. Irans people are peaceful, its their radical leaders who need to be slapped.

And quit thinking we need to invade Iran. Nonsense, we can run airstrikes, un-touched night and day over Iran blasting everything we need to.

You dont need a nuclear reactor period. They do not have nearly the envirnomental laws and contraints and especially the power need for such a system. They sit on the worlds oil, use it instead, Nukes for peace, ya right Iran, nice try.

Time to smash that reactor to the ground and make a Statement. Tell Iran, look, the world communtiy told you to not it off, you disoberyed, so we, the US, the leader of the community, smashed you reactor into the stoneage.

As for you, vega, mega, whatever, If I were you, I would go grab a beer and relax for a second man. You need to cool off. You need to get off that Bush hating high horse your riding on. Quit believing in CNN and all the conspiracies and pick up a book on capitalism and figure out how you can help instead of complain.

Train

Train, your last post beggars belief...

Try to educate yourself more on the rest of the world and what their opinions are on different things before jumping to (incorrect) conclusions and ranting off on people. Educating yourself does not include Fox News etc, as they only tell you what they want you to hear.

You are the typical cowboy, the typical yee-haawww loose cannon alot of people across the world envisage when they think of the current American foreign policy and whether it is actually adhering to the will of the people or not, or whether the people are ill-informed as to the goings-on in the world.


Little question for you Train, how many times have you travelled outside the US borders? (say on holiday for a while) - if so, did you ever get into discussions about global politics?

Every American I have met is disgusted with the hypocrisy and lies eminating from the current administration.

Originally posted by BigTrain

We americans, do not wish death upon anyone except tyrants and criminals who have already murdered hunderds and thousadns, I.E. Saddam, and if you know anything about history, you would see that the US is in the business of Bettering lives.

woohoo , so the use of WMD`s in Fullajah is `bettering the lives on the people`

yeah ok - the usa has slaughtered more people using banned weapons (banned in the civilized world , which the usa claims to be part of) in the space of months than sadam did in years.

Originally posted by Harlequin
yeah ok - the usa has slaughtered more people using banned weapons (banned in the civilized world , which the usa claims to be part of) in the space of months than sadam did in years.

Depends on whose unofficial speculative numbers you wish to go with, Harlequin.



seekerof

all numbers are unofficial even the numbers that sadam gassed which are being used in his trial.


if you say they counted the dead , then erm they are still doing that in fullajah from the gassed victims there.

moot point really.

Originally posted by Manincloak
What? I think that's way too far away for the B-2.
It's range is 12kms, what's the distance of Iran from the nearest USAF base?

Are you joking?

You do know that the B-2 flew all of it's missions in Iraq from the continental US don't you?

12kms?

Originally posted by BigTrain
Such an attack would follow by Iran's cruise missile attack on the original attacker, and would do more harm than good.

Not really.

The US can simply say any response of the strike will result in the complete destruction of the Iranian military.

You really think that Iran is going to fire of a few cruise missles when they know they would get obliterated?

The chance that either of those two succeedes, is only if Iran doesn't have the S-400 air defence system, which can shoot down anything. B-2, Cruise Missile, paper plane.....

That is pure speculation.

A B-2 has NEVER BEEN SHOT DOWN. Therefor, you can not claim ANY weapons system has a reasonable chance of shooting one down.

The moot point is your mention of the US led Coalition using gas, in relation to those "gassed victims" you assert, in Fallujah, Harlequin.
Especially since there was no gas usage.

If you have issue over this, then you may need to find a topic that addresses this matter, Harlequin. As I recall, the title of this topic is not Fallujah, but Iran and speculation as to how the nuclear facilities would be attacked, correct?






seekerof

well i was replying to you .Seekerof.

Gas ; as in chemical weapon , which by pure and scientific definition phosphorus is when used against people to kill them.


But , i do concur with you on that its too late to go and attack the multiple of underground (and inside of mountains) of sites related to a convert nuclear programme, and to hit the reactor construction site is a pointless waste of time.

Originally posted by Vis Mega
..sometimes.. I just wanna scream when I read some stuff in here.

I see two possibilities for the most effective and lethal strike to take out Irans Nuclear Facilities.

Why do you want to do this? Why is it okay for Israel (the only country routeenly killing its neighbours in the area) to have Nuclear Power, but its not okay for Iran to have it?

Well one very good reason is that Israel has never -- never -- announced that they were going to destroy any other country. Sure they may have made pre-emptive incursions but they have never made an announcement that it was an Israeli aim to destroy any other country. And we both know that Israel has the ability to do so!

On the other hand, Iran has publicly stated that Iran intended to destroy Israel. How would Iran do this? Well, I can't think of any other way that Iran could destroy Israel except throught the used of nuclear weapons.

This clear aim and intention of Iran to destroy another country -- a publicly announced goal, I might add, clearly disqualifies them from developing and maintaining nuclear weapons. And before you jump in and say that the US has nuclear weapons and has used them, think back upon the time and the conditions that this occurred. It was the 1940's, nuclear weapons were so new that even those who developed them were truly unclear of their impact from a scientific and, more importantly, a social position. In effect, they were the first to use a weapon that "could not be used". It actually took using the A-Bomb before we could realize that this was a weapon that could not, should not, ever be used again. It's real value lay in it's deterrence.

If Iran, therefore were to use nuclear weapons on Israel, then, in kind, Iran can fully expect to cease to exist as an area inhabitable by humankind for quite some time to come. That is something that Iran might consider before it goes and makes blustery announcements such as it's goal to destroy another country.

Mod Edit: Quote Tag.

[edit on 8/12/2005 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by Harlequin
But , i do concur with you on that its too late to go and attack the multiple of underground (and inside of mountains) of sites related to a convert nuclear programme, and to hit the reactor construction site is a pointless waste of time.

It was merely a speculative mention on my part, Harlequin.
To be honest, at this point in time, it is still sketchy as to what may or might take place. In matters dealing with military hardware and hypothetical scererio's, I hate speculating. I know I do it sometimes, but I still hate it.





seekerof

[edit on 8-12-2005 by Seekerof]

Vis Mega, I do agree that it is hypocracy to not allow Iran to have Nuclear power. But you have too look at it from the point of view of the statements that have been coming out of their presidents mouth, such as statements saying they will wipe Israel off the face of the earth. And judging from what you post here, you wouldnt seem to mind if they did. Its not just America that has sketchy feelings about Irans intentions, but Europe as well.

As for your assertions about the war being based on lies, take a look at this.
factcheck.org...

As for you telling others they fell for propoganda, check your sources friend.
Using prisonplanet, tbr, antiwar.com, and al jazeera.com(note: aljazeera.net I would accept as a credible source as it is the official news stations website, the .com is a propoganda site) You do use some credible sources, but dont list sources that just fit your agenda. Im not knockin on ya, just letting you know for the sake of your credibility.(The one marxist.com, hahahahahah that one was a gut buster, explodes with credibility)-insert sarcasm.

As for Israelis having nukes, they need them to survive where they are at. They were attacked 3 times in the latter half of the 20th century. They live in hostile quarters and it is their only real detterrent to maintain their existence. They havent been angels, but cmon put yourself in their shoes and take a look at the countries that border them and the history of the neighborhood since 1948. Thats the South-Central L.A. of the world.


[edit on 12/8/2005 by ludaChris]

Originally posted by kilcoo316
Train, your last post beggars belief...

Try to educate yourself more on the rest of the world and what their opinions are on different things before jumping to (incorrect) conclusions and ranting off on people. Educating yourself does not include Fox News etc, as they only tell you what they want you to hear.

You are the typical cowboy, the typical yee-haawww loose cannon alot of people across the world envisage when they think of the current American foreign policy and whether it is actually adhering to the will of the people or not, or whether the people are ill-informed as to the goings-on in the world.


Little question for you Train, how many times have you travelled outside the US borders? (say on holiday for a while) - if so, did you ever get into discussions about global politics?

Every American I have met is disgusted with the hypocrisy and lies eminating from the current administration.

It's funny how so many people attack Fox News. Are you that blinded by the Liberals. One news station comes into view and obliterates the competition and all of a sudden they are propanda artists. Dont be jealous that the everyday hard working americans arent blinded into CNN like you are. Dont be mad that people dont want to see garbage being slapped in their face every night by the liberals, saying how bad we are, and how much we suck and how we will never win this war and how bush is a tyrant, you think thats kind of news helps the americans.

You think I care about the what the rest of the world thinks of us. Dude, name another country that has been so generous,. we pay for 75%+ of the UN budget, we are the biggest supporter of human rights, we bomb Iraq and at the same time drop miilions of tons of food and supplies to the poor and starving in Iraq. We are the greatest humanitarian and peace keeping nation in the history of the world, so quite frankly, im real tired of you and your cronies telling me I am evil and I am the problem and that I should educate myself for others. How about this.

Why doesnt the rest of the world educate themselves so we dont have to take care of everyone anymore!!

An another thing, nice try with the every american is disgusted with the lies and propaganda, etc etc, where do you live, France!

Train

I think it is time to get this thread back on track.

*How I envision Attack on Irans Nuke Facility*

I say that you are all wrong because…. There are more than 2 ways to attack a facility.

My god, I can't believe you don't see what is about to take place in Iran. It is being staged right now. This is how it is really going to go down......

[screen fades from black --> to a view of mountain terrain.] [Enter stage left]

An underground fighter appears, carefully making his way down the mountain. Iranian in appearance, he has traveled all night to reach the meeting tonight. He stays in the shadows long enough to see that he is not being followed. His comrades quietly join him. Diligently they review the plan for the last time. Silently praying they will be successful.

The fighters move over to the next building and load the equipment into the vehicles they will use in the attack. They cautiously drive to the location of the attack and disperse to their designated positions. At the approved time they all arm their RPG's, and aim at the areas of the building that quantities of shape charges were secreted earlier.

As they fire their weapons, none of the groups are aware that the same coordinated attacks are occurring simultaneously at multiple locations across the Iran countryside. They are only concerned with the hasty retreat and extraction that has been planned.

*Point 1* Exorcise your imagination a little more.
*Point 2* Planners have a sense of irony and humor too.
*Point 3* Insurgency/guerilla tactics are cost effective, and work both ways.


Think it can’t happen like that?

Carlos the Jackal attacks nuclear reactor in France

In 1982, a terrorist cell led by Carlos (the Jackal), attempted to destroy a nuclear reactor in central France, but the effort was foiled when their rocket-powered explosives failed to penetrate the facility's concrete walls.

France nuclear power station attacked

Shortly before midnight on January 18, a group including Magdelana Kopp fired an RPG-7 rocket launcher across the River Rhone at the outer shell of the reactor but, despite firing five rockets, failed to penetrate the thick concrete causing only minor damage.

[/smarty pants guerilla tactic lesson]

Originally posted by ludaChris

As for your assertions about the war being based on lies, take a look at this.
factcheck.org...

The reason for the war in Iraq is Saddam started trading oil in Euros.

Iran is going to start trading oil in Euros so the US is threatening them any way they can.

The US dollar is being kept afloat by the oil trade - its an economic war.

Originally posted by BigTrain
It's funny how so many people attack Fox News. Are you that blinded by the Liberals. One news station comes into view and obliterates the competition and all of a sudden they are propanda artists. Dont be jealous that the everyday hard working americans arent blinded into CNN like you are. Dont be mad that people dont want to see garbage being slapped in their face every night by the liberals, saying how bad we are, and how much we suck and how we will never win this war and how bush is a tyrant, you think thats kind of news helps the americans.

You think I care about the what the rest of the world thinks of us. Dude, name another country that has been so generous,. we pay for 75%+ of the UN budget, we are the biggest supporter of human rights, we bomb Iraq and at the same time drop miilions of tons of food and supplies to the poor and starving in Iraq. We are the greatest humanitarian and peace keeping nation in the history of the world, so quite frankly, im real tired of you and your cronies telling me I am evil and I am the problem and that I should educate myself for others. How about this.

Why doesnt the rest of the world educate themselves so we dont have to take care of everyone anymore!!

An another thing, nice try with the every american is disgusted with the lies and propaganda, etc etc, where do you live, France!

Train

Fox news is a joke, I've heard enough of the pure brown stuff that comes from them. They are indefensible.

So generous? If it wasn't for the sanctions in the first place then the Iraqi children wouldn't need the supplies!

Biggest supporter of human rights? Like those rights in guantanamo bay for instance

"We are the greatest humanitarian and peace-keeping nation in the history of the world"
We have a saying over here... self praise is no recommendation - and it sure as hell applies here.
Don't forget, it was the US that put Saddam in power, it was the US that put bin Laden in power.... the Shah in power etc etc


Why doesn't the rest of the world educate themselves??? Eh?

Why are alot of Americans so secluded to the world? It generates dangerous thinking - especially when the media pander to an agenda. Its not the fault of the public, more the media for manipulating a niave populace


Nice try with every American...

Can you read? Where did I say every American - I said every American I've met - slight difference... but then again, I might not be educated enough to know that

Oh, and as for my location - I think if you look under my username its there

[edit on 8-12-2005 by kilcoo316]

Originally posted by BigTrainWith the recent remarks of sharing nuc tech with other arab nations

a couple of things:

First: what do you mean by "other" Arab nations? Iran is not an Arab nation.

Second: The offer was made to Turkey, also a non-Arab country.

Originally posted by Vis Mega
Is it because they are Arabs, and Arabs should not be allowed N.P.?

Last time I checked, Iranians aren't Arabs.

Why would Iran want to nuke Israel in the first place anyway? The president of Iran said "Israel should be wiped off the map", could he mean that he just doesnt want an Israeli state to exist politically instead of using weapons to get rid of the entire country? Why would Iran nuke Israel if Palestinians are living there too? And by nuking Israel they would get allot more countries against them, even the Muslim countries because of the Holy land in Jerusalem.

Bring on the bleeding heart liberals who are completely unable to keep their eyes focused on the ball. I've seen/read people's comments ranging from "Why is everyone else allowed to have nuclear energy and not Iran?" to "Just more hawkish warmongering by the United States."

Let's address the pure stupidity of these assertions. Number 1, NO ONE is advocating that Iran is not allowed to have NP. The global community has sought a number of resolutions to afford Iran NP while DENYING them the ability to produce a nuclear weapon. Remember the proposal that Russia process and enrich the Uranium for them? How conveniently some forget that Western nations have attempted to broker a deal that would allow for the continued development of Iran's nuclear power program - sans nuclear weapons! Iran's continued stance is EVIDENTLY indicative of their desire to develop a nuclear weapon. Take that OBVIOUS fact and couple it with their President's wildly irresponsible assertions that "Israel should be wiped off the map" AND "Iran will certainly share nuclear technology with other arab nations" and you have a real problem here. A failure to recognize that is either pure stupidity or childish naivete!

I simply wonder if the liberals are either too simple minded to focus on the broad range of issues intermingled here or some inherent inability to acknowledge the broad range of facts. Either way, this is a global security issue.

Now to answer the post - If Iran fails to comply with the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty that they became a signatory to, they should not be permitted to posses ANY nuclear technology. Whereas cruise missiles could attack undetected, I doubt that they possess the ground-pentrating capabilites required to hit their nuclear assets. Sending B-2s to do the job could prove to be highly effective yet provides for unnecessary exposure to our airmen. Why not take ICBMs, modified without a nuclear warhead and retro-fitted with our known bunker busting technology and launch those against their facilities. The missiles certainly have the range required and since they leave the Earth's atmosphere, they would have the necessary attack-arch and velocity to penetrate deeply enough to destroy such operations.

This method, of course, would require the support of the global community.

Originally posted by Harlequin
woohoo , so the use of WMD`s in Fullajah is `bettering the lives on the people`

yeah ok - the usa has slaughtered more people using banned weapons (banned in the civilized world , which the usa claims to be part of) in the space of months than sadam did in years.

This is a perfect example - a perfect non-sequitur wrapped in supposition devoid of facts. I would jump all over this and B**ch slap this into the ground, but I've already wasted enough energy simply pointing it out. Comments like those posted by Harlequin speak for themselves